2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 700 times)

 

Yes, just by build IAD is ideal for marathon running; very short and light just like Geb. Us tall folks are at a big disadvantage (Swim, Cyberic, Weather, myself). If I was 5'5" instead of 6'5" I'm sure I would be running sub 2:20 

 

I'm 5'4" (well.. the doctors keep insisting that I'm 5'3.5", but I believe in positive thinking) I'm thinking I should be running 2:19.

DW - very good post, thank you. I missed the part that you float the in between mile, so now I get it. It's odd that he/you think a 10 mile run at marathon pace is too taxing. When I look at the Jack Daniels conversion chart, he says that a 60 minute run at MP is equivalent to a 20 minute run at LT pace, so for you that's about 9 miles straight at MP. I also think if you tend to hammer things too much, the longer the run, the less likely you are to do it, so I like what you're doing.

 

Also, 25x400 is just absurd. How is that a workout? What does that accomplish at 10K pace? What am I missing???

To be clear, I don't think 10 miles at Marathon effort is too taxing at all.  I think it's fine, when used wisely.  I do the 2x5 instead because

I don't see much if any additional benefit to doing 10 miles versus 2x5 with 1 mile float, and it's really not worth the argument.  But, if my coach ever told me to try it instead, I'd be all over it.

The 25x400 is at 10K pace with a 100m float in 30 seconds. (at the risk of disturbing a grave, I consider 7:30-8:00 pace to be both dead zone running and float running for myself.  Not much training benefit in that pace by itself, but I think it's a very good tool to sub in for recovery pace during a workout to keep one honest and aerobic about paces during the hard parts of a workout).

The point of the 25x400 is to raise one's lactate threshold, by dancing above and below it.  It's also pretty challenging mentally - you hit a dark place around 12-13 reps in.  My coach likes it for both the LT benefits and the mental toughness aspect.  You really learn how to get through something tough one lap at a time in that workout - you HAVE to stay in the moment.  You also learn some control - if you go out even a bit too fast for the first few 400s (which is very easy), you pay for it late.  Just like the marathon.

I see the benefits, but I think it works better or worse for different runners.  The people who do best with it are people with an 800-1500 background - they just eat it up and love it - it's a ton of relatively easy 400s for them.  Those are the same people who find anything longer than a 4 mile tempo very challenging mentally.  People who are best at the 5K-10K do well off of it also.

But, there are some people, like me, who just get fried with that workout.  I can do it, and execute it perfectly, not running anything too fast.  But it digs a fatigue hole that I'm just never able to climb out of.  And I find that I just do much better with a 5 mile straight tempo at a bit slower than half-marathon pace, or sets of 2 mile repeats working down to 10 mile pace or a bit faster.

The name of the game is to optimally balance stress and recovery.  And different workouts take different things from different people.  I recover much faster from 2x3200 than 6x800; for some people it's the opposite.

Bullcity - no idea on Banff - have you considered Grandma's?  It's a great race, and still open.  There's also Buffalo if you can push things up slightly to the end of May.

Belated, but....CK - I like Darkwave also - you are right in guessing that's where I got my handle (Darkwave makes a better handle than "EBM" or "techno" or "psytrance.")

On goth-industrial boards I always go by Anarcha instead (a play on my real first name of "Anne" which I never use, and also the fact that I'm a lawyer, so it's my anti-lawyer name.)  I can't really go by Darkwave on those boards because it'd be pretty much like naming myself "Goth" or "Futurepop."

 

Yes, Slammin and JMac are the only proper runners on this thread. 

You old people are more sensitive than Millennials! Jeez.

Cyberic - Like DWave, I telecommute practically every day - I might go in to the office 1-2x per quarter. I'd love to run commute when I do go in, but that would literally be marathon distance both ways (yes, I've mapped it). At least the office is right beside the local river trail system, so it's easy to go for a run outside there when I want.

JMac - I'm not using that date format by choice. That's posted from a site based in Germany, and their "use the American date format" setting somehow doesn't apply globally across their own site.

DWave - Long ago I copied your 25x400m LT workout to Garmin, but I haven't been brave enough to try it yet. It's certainly on my to-do list, though. I just need to find the right time for it.

This has really spiraled.

First - Andres my casual running days got me the 1:43 half. That's why I pointed that out, because that was my fist time running anything besides a 5K, so that's actually my growth story, which on a full marathon basis, is effectively 1 hour jump in marathon time. I was training much more seriously once I picked up marathon running. I didn't run one for the first couple of years of me picking up more mileage. So by the time I ran that 3:12, I already had some mileage under my belt. So no, I didn't intend that at all regarding "smarter mileage" or anything like that. It was more that I am shocked people would run 100-120 MPW unless there was something bigger at stake vs. just improving times. Maybe this goes to Cals point but I just think there's a limit to how much mileage I"m willing to put in, given I know I'm approaching my ceiling. I don't have that euphoria of "doing whatever it takes" to just snag a PR. I know my ceiling, if I trained 100+ MPW, is in the 2:20s, and not any better, and there is absolutely no way I would ever put that kind of effort in to run a 2:25. If I did, I would fully expect a better runner to say they were not impressed with those times.

Sorry if it came across as me somehow patting myself on the back, because it definitely is not. For example, I find Mikkey's ability of grabbing a moose mug in his 35th marathon or whatever it was so impressive. Same thing with Cal grabbing sub 3s on so little training. DW is running perhaps the most impressive out of everyone on this thread, and we know what Nimmals talents are. Dropping your marathon time by 1 hour by putting in 120 mile weeks is not, IMO, "impressive," just as I do not consider my growth to be "impressive." I understand most people on this board feel differently regarding what is/is not impressive, but that's my opinion.

Second - Weather has run some very impressive shorter distance times, if I remember correctly IAD had a lot of trouble at basically every distance he ran from marathon down to 5K. Also weather has never put in the crazy mileage IAD did.

Third - These are my last thoughts on the topic as I seem to have struck a nerve and apologize for those offended. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Cal:  Yeah, I don't understand that (WS qualifiers) either.  I wonder if the technical aspect of the trails comes into play at all.  I know the second half of BC is fairly rocky, and the rocks don't move, so if you hit one, you're going down.  But I agree, 17 hours is, to me, too much time in comparison to Quicksilver.

DPS:  Yes, an indoor track.  Most of my plans workouts are organized by time, not distance, so I figure out approximately how far to run when I'm on the indoor oval or on a treadmill.  So, the distances look a little ridiculous sometimes.

 

I think JMac is still in a state of euphoria and he certainly should be there. But... If you follow some people and know their development, you start appreciating their achievements much more than just numbers. Every time you improve over your previous time, it's such a huge thing for us hobby joggers - because we are not paid for that. we all have families, kids. Hell, I would say, even running 100 mpw week after week is HUGE. Forget about race result, keeping your mileage above 100 mpw for weeks is a huge achievement, because it requires you to be injury free and it's a luck (or a skill) if you running that much for that long. I do not expect everybody to understand what I just said  but to some degree I am on cloud nine when I had stretches like that - and that feeling is a big part of what is running about for me too.

I feel like that too.

 

I do not expect everybody to understand what I just said  but to some degree I am on cloud nine when I had stretches like that - and that feeling is a big part of what is running about for me too.

I agree completely CAL...the feeling is indescribable.  It hasn't happened to me often and takes a lot of work but for a few weeks it's an amazing drug.  Unfortunately it also goes away really quickly if you get lazy!!