2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 616 times)

JMac11


Benevolent Leader

    DW again, so sorry to hear this and that the Ortho ruled out running. I really hope it's just something sore and will heal within a week. I'm optimistic that you will go out and rock it next weekend and this will just be another blip in a training cycle, albeit a very scary one.

    5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

     

    Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

    Marky_Mark_17


      DW, very sorry to hear that rough news.  Fingers crossed it's just a bit of temporary pain and will heal up quickly.  Given it was you vs. truck it's really fortunate that it wasn't worse!!

      5,000m: 16:03 (Dec-18) | 10,000m: 32:58 (Nov-19) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

      HM: 1:12:49 (Sep-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

      Last race: The Agency Group 10,000m, 9 Nov, 32:58

      Up next: Kerikeri Half Marathon, 23 Nov

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      weatherboy80


        My god that is horrible news!! So glad that you are generally okay. And hope you can race at a slightly later date instead.

        5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)


        Yak-3 vs Spitfire

          DW - who cares about racing this week or next? Seriously! You will have plenty of races ahead, I understand you had a great cycle and high hopes, but the main thing you are OK. Also, I would try to understand how that happened and try to make some changes to a safer running locations.


          Elite Jogger

            DW - That is rough and especially after the storm drama last week! Wishing you a speedy recovery.

            5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

            JMac11


            Benevolent Leader

              DW - I was going to ask how you're feeling today, but I can't imagine it's any better. I think we'll have to see on Sunday if it's getting better.

               

              Weather - figured I'd answer here as it's easier.

               

              Yes, I did a TLT workout earlier this cycle (2x2T + 8E + 2T). A few notes:

               

              - I find the walking breaks in between the T sections to be a huge mental relief. I think 3T is much harder than 2x2T

              - I used to walk after any T section, even if I had a bunch of E upcoming. I scrapped that recently as I thought it was dumb given I was about to go run EZ for over an hour. Harder to do, but important

              - My easy pace has come down significantly in these types of runs. I was working hard yesterday to not run faster than 7:00 as I view that as my E cap, but my pace kept wanting to creep down to 6:45. I viewed that as the biggest positive yesterday over anything else

               

              So I think you should go for this workout, but do the same exact thing: absolutely no walking (your first E after the initial 3T can be a bit slower) and no break after your first mile warmup. It should just be a continuous 18 miles of running. Your weather does make it a lot more challenging though.

               

              Two other notes:

               

              - My Strava is so annoying. It will show me a run I've already seen and given kudos to a second time before it shows me somebody's run I haven't seen. That's how I missed Andres's half, and it just came up again with this workout.

              - Weather - speaking of Strava, I don't understand how your Strava works. Your workout yesterday had two different miles of 7:30 and 8:20, and yet your average pace on Strava shows up as 5:42. That seems like the pace for your intervals only. How is it doing that?

              5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

               

              Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

              Swim5599


                DW - I was going to ask how you're feeling today, but I can't imagine it's any better. I think we'll have to see on Sunday if it's getting better.

                 

                Weather - figured I'd answer here as it's easier.

                 

                Yes, I did a TLT workout earlier this cycle (2x2T + 8E + 2T). A few notes:

                 

                - I find the walking breaks in between the T sections to be a huge mental relief. I think 3T is much harder than 2x2T

                - I used to walk after any T section, even if I had a bunch of E upcoming. I scrapped that recently as I thought it was dumb given I was about to go run EZ for over an hour. Harder to do, but important

                - My easy pace has come down significantly in these types of runs. I was working hard yesterday to not run faster than 7:00 as I view that as my E cap, but my pace kept wanting to creep down to 6:45. I viewed that as the biggest positive yesterday over anything else

                 

                So I think you should go for this workout, but do the same exact thing: absolutely no walking (your first E after the initial 3T can be a bit slower) and no break after your first mile warmup. It should just be a continuous 18 miles of running. Your weather does make it a lot more challenging though.

                 

                Two other notes:

                 

                - My Strava is so annoying. It will show me a run I've already seen and given kudos to a second time before it shows me somebody's run I haven't seen. That's how I missed Andres's half, and it just came up again with this workout.

                - Weather - speaking of Strava, I don't understand how your Strava works. Your workout yesterday had two different miles of 7:30 and 8:20, and yet your average pace on Strava shows up as 5:42. That seems like the pace for your intervals only. How is it doing that?

                JMac as someone that’s crushed a few TLT s in my day.  Just a word of caution.  You can definitely leave your race out on a training run doing those.  I once did one as 6E 4T 10E 3T 2E.  Ran the E paced miles at like 6:35-6:40 pace and closed the last T Mile in 5:18.  Terrible idea.  So don’t do that ha ha.  

                darkwave as someone that’s been in a major car accident that was somebody’s fault I feel for you.  I hope it’s just a little a soreness and your back soon.  Hang in there.

                HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04

                Nimmals


                  DW, Hang in there I'm so happy it was just a minor injury. I seldom run on roads do all my training on a bike path and that's exactly the reason why. Some motorist have no regards. So glad youre okay. in light of your accident it would be completely acceptable to postpone a race at least until you have full mobility. Think long term.

                    DW: Hope you are feeling better today. What a week for you with the storm damage and then this. It's not only the injury from the truck but the stress of it all. I hope you are able to recover and mellow out as well. If needed go for a race even further out than Richmond or Philly, maybe CIM  Whatever you do best to be fully recovered physically and mentally/emotionally before racing.

                    5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                    Up next: Athens OH Marathon (April 19)

                    weatherboy80


                      Thanks for the additional info JMac!  As for my workout and strava pace yesterday I ran my T repeats on the track so it overestimated my pace overall and then I had 2 different standing rests (3 minutes each) going which strava then removed? (BTW ,my garmin has 6:14 for those 8+ miles which is strange so this is likely a difference between pace and elapsed time). Maybe it is an auto-pause feature?   Either way I wouldn't pay attention to the pace much.  My guess is that I hit the 3, 3, 2 portions right about low 5:50ish pace which makes sense given the effort, HR, and conditions.

                       

                      As for those TLT's being somewhat continuous I'll try for that but I usually find myself in the need of a restroom stop (or several) in the first several miles of my warmup LOL!

                      5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

                      JMac11


                      Benevolent Leader

                        JMac as someone that’s crushed a few TLT s in my day.  Just a word of caution.  You can definitely leave your race out on a training run doing those.  I once did one as 6E 4T 10E 3T 2E.  Ran the E paced miles at like 6:35-6:40 pace and closed the last T Mile in 5:18.  Terrible idea.  So don’t do that ha ha.  

                         

                        Oh for sure, that's why I say I dialed back when my E pace was starting to creep up. It's not 3T + 10M + 3T. I also have been so conscious of keeping easy pace at slower paces this cycle in between workouts. They're often at MP+30%, which is slower than even Pfitz recommends. My legs have never felt so fresh during workouts as they have this cycle. I've also modified some of Daniels's dumb workouts like 6M+1T+6M. I have no idea what the purpose that workout is if you're not an elite.

                         

                        I'm also a big fan of the "lazy becky" that Nimmals so eloquently laid out this spring for tapers. I work very hard during my workouts and the cycle, but once taper time comes, especially the last 10 days, it's all very easy work with just some sharpening.

                         

                        Weather - that's why you need to run at night like me, the system is all cleared out and you can just go for 18 continuous 

                        5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

                        weatherboy80


                          Agree with removing those mixed M+T+M runs this cycle as I've already done something similar.  Current thinking is that I'll run three long duration M efforts (already have done 2 of 10 and 12 miles), add in the HM race that I mentioned previously and keep the long tempo mixed efforts as they really force you to try to run fast in those last few miles on tired legs.  Never have been able to really push the EZ pace in those type of LR's, but that may be my heat more than anything.

                          5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            Hi guys - just a quick check in to let you know I'm alive.  Just too busy with doctor's appts and all the other stuff I have to deal with as a result of this, so I'm probably going to be non-responding to comments/discussions for a bit.

                             

                            I do have to make one comment for the record to Calbears regarding choice of running routes :P.  This happened very close to my house, within 500m.  Perhaps I should move?  :P

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            Brewing Runner


                            CIM FanBoi

                               

                              I do have to make one comment for the record to Calbears regarding choice of running routes :P.  This happened very close to my house, within 500m.  Perhaps I should move?  :P

                               

                              Head West. California. The trails are awesome! Again, best wishes at recovering. There are marathons all over all year long. Healing up for a lifetime after something like that is more important than a race.

                               

                              I might as well make an introduction here, even though it's really late in the year. I've lurked throughout the year.

                              35 male, aiming for a BQ at CIM this year. Training has been using Hansons advanced plan for their Tuesday/Thursday workouts and long runs under 16 miles (based of Jack Daniels 25-30% of weekly mileage). I did a 3:05:22 at Mt Charleston in Las Vegas this year. Training has been 70 MPW over the past 5 weeks. I see a handful of people here will be doing CIM. It's my third. I want a time fast enough to get IN to Boston 2021 and with JMac's guidance I've gone straight to sub 3 training (BOTT). I'm slightly intimidated by the fact I'll be aiming for sub 3. I'll be using Maurten gels and taking water. Nuun gave me stomach pains and I switched to Maruten after keen and jmac told me about them. CIM will be my 6th marathon. I kind of remember the course. Training has gone well this cycle. I don't have any races to pick from and my next race will be a turkey trot 10K. I live at 4,500' which is supposed to help out at CIM. I just need the wisdom and guidance of those here to help get me to the finish line. I'm coming from the 3:20 thread since I actually didn't think I'd ever be a sub 3 marathoner and just being so close to it is impressive to me. I think there is a little bit different training approach, and a lot of people over there aren't training for a marathon, or they're in here.

                               

                              The longest I've done is 16 miles. Hanson's bases this off how long it takes elites to do their long runs and says there isn't much benefit for being out there for 3 hours of running. This is about 20% of weekly mileage. I've come to enjoy the long run being less than 2.5 hours. Should I increase this to 18+ miles to get that 25% of total weekly mileage? What benefit does it provide if I'm doing 70 miles a week? Will I see a big gain if I start doing 18 or 20 mile long runs with 70 miles a week over the next few weeks, or is the "hay in the barn" at this point?

                               

                              Strava  2 x 3 mile at 10 seconds faster than goal marathon pace

                              Garmin if youre interested

                               

                              Feel free to comment on either at any time. I'm always looking for advice as I've wanted to run Boston for a few years. Now that it's close I'd like to CRUSH CIM and get in.

                              1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                              5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                              10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                              Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                              Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                              Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                              *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                               

                              2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                               

                              JMac11


                              Benevolent Leader

                                Brew - welcome

                                 

                                DW - we’re all rooting for you!

                                 

                                Swim - I just read your post again. You ran TWENTY FIVE miles with that kind of quality? Jesus no wonder you ran yourself into the ground, that is just an absurd run! In what program does Daniels even recommend something that crazy? 120+ mpw?

                                 

                                Weather - your cycle is going very well so far. I’m always surprised how fast your paces are given the weather. Just based on them alone, you’re in equal or better shape than me, so clearly it’s just going to be a matter of keeping the train moving and then executing on race day. And also NOT SCREWING UP THE TAPER 

                                5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)