2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 674 times)

Running Problem


Curmudgeon

    You’ve obviously never read my race recaps. Definitely not safe for work.

    2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

    Swim5599


      Congrats to everyone.  Boyd my gosh sensational buddy.  JMac unreal.  

      I was rolling along nicely thinking 2:43 high was probably a lock through 22 miles and then I felt something snap in my right hip.  I basically dragged it in from there.  Bitterly disappointed.

      HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04 

      weatherboy80


        JMac: I will certainly be going for sub 2:3x (based on weather), but I'd say you clearly set the bar pretty high based on your result yesterday LOL!  In fact, you knocked the Daniels predictor out of the park based on your HM mid-cycle which I usually find aggressive to begin with.  Plus you took full advantage of great conditions (from what I gather), had a near perfect cycle, and ran the best splits I've probably seen for 26.2.  I also think you doing your monster workouts and training runs in Central Park helps immensely especially for a course like CIM?

         

        Swim: That sounds utterly painful.  Hope you are okay?  Way to fight through to the finish though!

         

        Overall sounds like an incredible day out at CIM.  Congrats to Nimmals, JMac, Brew, Jayluf and Cals,.  Finishing a marathon no matter what speed is an incredible feat!  Can't wait to hear more!  Very cool that several of you got to meet up as well!


        As for me pretty much recovered from my HM last Sunday and surprised myself still getting in 86 miles of mostly EZ volume.  Thought about doing a workout mid-week, but pushed it out further just to be sure.  Then had a really tough but good 22 mile LR on Saturday where I progressed from the upper 6 to high 5 range at the end.  Less than 4 weeks for me to go now so one more really big week before I start cutting down the volume a bit.

         

        Excited that I found a pair of the Nike Flyknits from 2018 for $45 at a local discount store that I will use in a few upcoming workouts to get my feet ready for the Vaporfly's on race day.  I believe several of you train this way too?   These have a carbon fiber plate, but the react foam is heavy and more durable which will provide a good stimulus.

         

        Mon: 10.2 EZ Recovery miles

        Tues: 12.20 EZ

        Wed: 11.5 EZ (AM); 5.5 EZ (PM)

        Thurs: 11.2 EZ

        Fri: 6.6 EZ + strides

        Sat: 22.1 w/ 10E + 10mi progression (6:45 -> 5:40) + 2E

        Sun:  6.6 EZ

         

        Total: 86 miles

        5K: 16:15 (3/20)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

        Andres1045


          I'm really inspired by all the fantastic running this weekend.

           

          Slammin, I'm really glad you went for it. It was exciting to track.

          JMac - if anything, it was not exciting to track you. You're just so damn consistent, and as everyone else on my app was fluctuating up and down with their pace (I assume with the rollers), you just stuck to the incremental drops. It was a thing of beauty, but I knew how it was going to end.

          Brew and Cal, loved how you guys got it done, apparently digging deep there at the end to stay on track.

          Swim - That sucks. Was that an injury that was known, or did it totally come out of nowhere?

           

          My week:

          I took things more or less easy until the long run. On my long run I did something I had never done before. A friend had a workout planned of 20 min or so easy, then 1 on, 4 off, with the 1 at 6 flat or a bit faster. We did that for about 15 miles, with 21 total. Wore me down there at the end, but if felt great to get it done. And I now feel like I've bounced back from my vacation. Ready to tackle this last bit remaining before Houston.

           

          70 Total:

          Mon: 6.1 at 8:32

          Tue: 10.1 at 7:55

          Wed: 8.2 at 7:51

          Thu: 10.5 at 7:39

          Fri: 8.0 at 8:01

          Sat: 21.2 at 7:24

          Sun: 6.3 at 8:01

          Upcoming races: Madrid (half) April 2020

          Running Problem


          Curmudgeon

            I'm nowhere NEAR as destroyed as I expected. After Revel Mt. Charleston, and Chicago not going my way, I expected to be too damaged to walk straight. Today, I feel like I could jog a few miles on lunch. I must have sandbagged.

             

            andres yeah cal told me after the race to do it in 20 years. First sub 3 and he's already downgrading it like I should have done it by now. Next time I'm going to chat him up on a run like I do my lunch friends.

            That long run workout sounds like a good way to break it up mentally. Should be fun tracking at Houston. I imagine you'll get weather similar to CIM this year.

             

            swim oh damn! seriously snap? My hips kind of hurt but a snap would probably scare the FUCK out of me. Hope you're somewhat okay right now.

             

            weather I raced in the flyknits. Only think I don't like about them initially in training was my foot felt like it was going to slide off the sole on a fast 90 degree turn. It took me a while to gain confidence in planting my foot with them. It wasn't any problem during CIM and even with the light puddles I didn't notice them being wet until I was back at the hotel and felt a new blister forming. It must have gone away because I can't feel it today.

             

            I saw a few people online discuss the weather for CIM and how it wasn't a PR day. Coming from the desert I should be the least acclimated to humidity in my opinion. Do people just blame the weather (like I did) when they miss a goal? Am I an asshole for thinking "no, your training just didn't work out. It wasn't the weather it was your execution of the race. I PR'd nicely"? I would say the weather was better than the forecast was saying 24-48 hours before race day.

            2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

            M_M_C


              I would wait until tomorrow before saying you aren't destroyed lol. Also as for yesterday not being a PR or fast day, one of my teammates from college ran almost an 8 minute PR to get an OTQ, so though I was not there, I would say the weather was pretty good.

               

              I'm nowhere NEAR as destroyed as I expected. After Revel Mt. Charleston, and Chicago not going my way, I expected to be too damaged to walk straight. Today, I feel like I could jog a few miles on lunch. I must have sandbagged.

               

              andres yeah cal told me after the race to do it in 20 years. First sub 3 and he's already downgrading it like I should have done it by now. Next time I'm going to chat him up on a run like I do my lunch friends.

              That long run workout sounds like a good way to break it up mentally. Should be fun tracking at Houston. I imagine you'll get weather similar to CIM this year.

               

              swim oh damn! seriously snap? My hips kind of hurt but a snap would probably scare the FUCK out of me. Hope you're somewhat okay right now.

               

              weather I raced in the flyknits. Only think I don't like about them initially in training was my foot felt like it was going to slide off the sole on a fast 90 degree turn. It took me a while to gain confidence in planting my foot with them. It wasn't any problem during CIM and even with the light puddles I didn't notice them being wet until I was back at the hotel and felt a new blister forming. It must have gone away because I can't feel it today.

               

              I saw a few people online discuss the weather for CIM and how it wasn't a PR day. Coming from the desert I should be the least acclimated to humidity in my opinion. Do people just blame the weather (like I did) when they miss a goal? Am I an asshole for thinking "no, your training just didn't work out. It wasn't the weather it was your execution of the race. I PR'd nicely"? I would say the weather was better than the forecast was saying 24-48 hours before race day.

              3K: 8:29.12 (2017)     5K: 14:56.59 (2016)     8K: 25:27 (2016)     15K: 54:46.2 (2019)     FM: 2:58:48 (2019)

              weatherboy80


                Thanks for the info Brew on the Zoom FK.  My Next% caused some issues on my left toes during my recent HM and 10K so want to make something similar will be fine during the full.  I've also NEVER done a single workout to date in any shoe with a carbon fiber plate as those 2 races were my first 2 LOL

                5K: 16:15 (3/20)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

                Nimmals


                Stotan Disciple

                  Swim, Im sorry to hear about the hip. I know how tough that can be I warned my athlete its ok to stop rather than struggle home. Her knee blew up so it was best she stopped.

                   

                  Brew you sounded like its worth running with you just to hear your pot mouth, sorry I missed it. Id have had a ball. I love to take shit and laugh.

                   

                  Andres, thank you that was fun for me too I had the NYC 230 pace band on and there were times I was so far behind I really hauled ass the last 10k so it was as nail biting for me as it was for those tracking. Also JMAC gave amazing advice with those runs he suggested. Reading his post made me realize I was lacking continuous pacework. As I got bored lazy, sloppy, cautious in the middle shit I was crawling through 17 and 18. 19 I got back focused. I knew could make it to 20 at close to goal pace I could hammer the last 10k.

                  Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                  JMac11


                  Taper Czar

                    Nimmals - looking forward to more details on your race! Thanks for the appreciation, I think I've nailed down the taper (with the help of Daniels of course) and I do think continuous pace work is still needed 10 days out vs. just straight interval training. Hopefully we get to run  race together this spring/summer as I'll head out to Long Island to do one if you're up for beating me 

                     

                    Swim - at the beginning of the race, I could have swore I was passing you, but it was so early and I wasn't sure. Were you carrying a bottle at the start and wearing headphones? If not, then just a person who looked like you. Anyway, sorry about the hip, that sounds terrible.

                     

                    Madison - checking our splits, it looked like I passed you right after the 30K mark. I was wearing an orange singlet and (very short) blue shorts.

                     

                    CIM Weather - I will say that it was very humid, at least coming from the past 6 weeks of training where I haven't seen anything approaching the 105 TDP we ran in. I was actually worried about 2 miles in when I was more soaked than I thought I should be. I made sure to stay diligent with the hydration, probably moreso than any other marathon I've run. If you were bad about that, I could have seen you doing poorly. Overall though, I would say that the past 2 years were A+ weather, this was probably a solid A-. I actually enjoyed the slight breeze as it kept me cool. There is absolutely no way someone should say they didn't PR because of the weather though, unless they were only in shape to get a PR by less than 30 seconds.

                     

                    CIM Course - same thing with anyone complaining about the rollers: I guess if you're like weather and train on 100% flat terrain it may be tough. But I basically felt like I was running a race in a slightly easier version of Central Park. No hill was as big as I'm used to, and obviously more downhill than uphill. It's a PR course, but you should at least have some training on rolling terrain to get the tempo right.

                     

                    Andres - thanks for the love, sorry it was so boring to track . It was by far my best paced marathon of all five I've run. I felt like locking into 5:55 on my GPS (5:58 due to tangents) was pretty easy until about mile 23 where the effort had to pick up.

                     

                    Negative Splitting - here's my view, and to nimmals point, to each their own. I think the negative split I had yesterday was exactly what I want to do in every marathon. The first 5K should be the slowest as you warm up / deal with traffic, with constant splits after. I do agree though if you're hammering the last mile, you left too much on the table. I felt like I sped up in the last mile when the pacer I was with took off, and it turned out I ran it at almost exactly the same pace as every other mile. If I was able to drop a 5:30 in that last mile, something went wrong with my pacing early on and I started out too slowly.

                    5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                    Swim5599


                      I'm nowhere NEAR as destroyed as I expected. After Revel Mt. Charleston, and Chicago not going my way, I expected to be too damaged to walk straight. Today, I feel like I could jog a few miles on lunch. I must have sandbagged.

                       

                      andres yeah cal told me after the race to do it in 20 years. First sub 3 and he's already downgrading it like I should have done it by now. Next time I'm going to chat him up on a run like I do my lunch friends.

                      That long run workout sounds like a good way to break it up mentally. Should be fun tracking at Houston. I imagine you'll get weather similar to CIM this year.

                       

                      swim oh damn! seriously snap? My hips kind of hurt but a snap would probably scare the FUCK out of me. Hope you're somewhat okay right now.

                       

                      weather I raced in the flyknits. Only think I don't like about them initially in training was my foot felt like it was going to slide off the sole on a fast 90 degree turn. It took me a while to gain confidence in planting my foot with them. It wasn't any problem during CIM and even with the light puddles I didn't notice them being wet until I was back at the hotel and felt a new blister forming. It must have gone away because I can't feel it today.

                       

                      I saw a few people online discuss the weather for CIM and how it wasn't a PR day. Coming from the desert I should be the least acclimated to humidity in my opinion. Do people just blame the weather (like I did) when they miss a goal? Am I an asshole for thinking "no, your training just didn't work out. It wasn't the weather it was your execution of the race. I PR'd nicely"? I would say the weather was better than the forecast was saying 24-48 hours before race day.

                      Great race.  You should be stoked.  I think yesterday’s weather was probably a touch on the humid side.  I’ve never PR d at any distance with the TDP over 100.  Yesterday would have been the first.  I tend to run pretty hot and I’m also almost 6’3 so slightly more humid conditions impact me a little more.

                      HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04 

                      Running Problem


                      Curmudgeon

                        Great race.  You should be stoked.  I think yesterday’s weather was probably a touch on the humid side.  I’ve never PR d at any distance with the TDP over 100.  Yesterday would have been the first.  I tend to run pretty hot and I’m also almost 6’3 so slightly more humid conditions impact me a little more.

                         

                        Well yeah when you're practically touching the clouds I can imagine humidity matters. I run warm so I was concerned with it, but at some point I probably just stopped thinking about it an started counting the number of $250 shoes I was passing.

                         

                         

                        Oh and I had a better title thought up for my Strava but forgot it on the ride home. "that time I was giving out angel wings" because I rang the bell about 10 times unlike everyone else around who rang it once. Personal favorite was the runner dressed as Hulk Hogan who (apparently) ripped his shirt as he came across the finish line (sub 3) and had the mustache, blonde hair, red shorts, and bandana. Who says fast runners don't have fun?

                         

                        nimmals I'm more vocal during casual runs. In races I actually STFU for the most part. AFTER the race....I'll be as blunt and direct about it as I can be. I don't recall thinking any profane things during the race which is probably a first for me in a long time. 10 day taper and constant pace work? Sounds like a Hanson's training plan.

                         

                        weather I can't say the carbon fiber plate stood out very much. I think it might make RECOVERY easier more than anything, but I guess that would be a spring assist making running a 6:50 pace about 2% easier.

                         

                        jmac interesting take on the "last mile, fast mile" approach as I was thinking of trying to speed up during the final 5K (before race day) or even the last mile all by feel. I DID run a LOT of that mile by feel, but I don't think I sped up. I just quit looking at the watch every 1/16 of a mile.

                         

                         

                        so do I now switch from "that time" to something else for strava titles? "Boston Training Day ---"? I told my wife "I could defer it and maybe go another time" and she said "yeah well now that you know what it takes you could always run another qualifier but not CIM because birthday parties are going to be this weekend." uhhhhh yeah no. Not deferring my FIRST BQ.

                        2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          Great job again to all - I'm really enjoying reading the differing perspectives about the weather and the course.  A lot of people ran very well yesterday, which points to the weather not being that big an obstacle.

                           

                          Not being there, I obviously have a lousy perspective, but Jmac's description of A+ versus A- sounds right to me.  And I think there were people who were counting on getting an A+ like it was the last 3 years, so anything short of the A+ threw them off.  But at the same time, I'd happily take an A- over many other types of weather.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          weatherboy80


                            Being a FL runner low 50's to mid 50's even with a 100% humidity would easily be A+ for me Wink  Speaking of FL, I'm gonna be able to get in some muggy heat training yet again as our predicted lows will likely be right around 70 (with TDP well over 130) for my 2 key workouts later this week Sad  Having said that last week our weather was fantastic each morning so it is about the timing on race day!

                            5K: 16:15 (3/20)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                              Being a FL runner low 50's to mid 50's even with a 100% humidity would easily be A+ for me Wink  Speaking of FL, I'm gonna be able to get in some muggy heat training yet again as our predicted lows will likely be right around 70 (with TDP well over 130) for my 2 key workouts later this week Sad  Having said that last week our weather was fantastic each morning so it is about the timing on race day!

                               

                              I think a lot is acclimation.  It was high 50s for Grandma's 2018, and damp.  But coming out of a DC early summer, that weather felt blissful.  I would think that it would feel a bit warmer if you have recently been training in freezing temperatures.

                               

                              But even so, the weather that they had for CIM doesn't sound all that bad to me (again, I wasn't there, so....)

                               

                              I do think that there are some who get it wrapped around their head that if it's not A+ weather, they can't perform.  A+ or nothing.  And they start pre-loading on the weather hype.  [and that's really how it comes across - some people carb-load; others excuse-load]

                               

                              A few years ago, when training for Chicago, I had a teammate announce that it was a real shame about the weather for Chicago - it would simply be impossible to run well.  The forecast was for mid-50s, which is what we ended up getting.  Given what Chicago weather can be like, I thought we actually lucked out.

                               

                              Sure enough, pretty much everyone on the team had great races; the one exception was the person who decided several days before that they would not be having a good race.

                               

                              To be clear, I am not saying that weather is not a factor - it definitely is.  But I do think that one can run very well in good but not great weather, and that sometimes it's our mentality that limits us more than our bodies.

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              JMac11


                              Taper Czar

                                Definitely an acclimation issue. I would have killed for this weather in August, as I remember my first 130 TDP day after a long string of awful days feeling like the winter. But when you've been running in temps in the upper 30's/low 40's, low to mid 50's with 100% humidity can make you sweat more.

                                 

                                Either way, anyone complaining about the weather yesterday is a fool. We completely lucked out given the forecast. Given we were expecting rain and stronger winds, this was about as good of a turn in weather you could get. Just had to stay hydrated and dump some water over your head. It wasn't 70 and sunny. If you can't run in low 50s with a slight breeze to keep you cool, I don't know what you want. Kipchoge ran his first breaking2 attempt in the exact same weather.

                                 

                                Talking in races - I do love the little side chatter that goes on when running marathons as it's hard to do that in many other races. We saw a goat on the course and talked about it for just a little. Also talked with the OTQ pacer a little bit after the women he was pacing broke away from him, which was SO impressive that late in the race. I told him how proud he must be of them and made sure to give them (the women) some encouragement as they passed me.

                                 

                                Swim - it was definitely you, the person I saw was clearly over 6 feet. I should have said something.

                                5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run