2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 586 times)

cinnamon girl


    Thanks Weatherboy - current, not goal pace - noted! I'll deal with the M/T/M if/when I get there. The plan I'm looking at I think has only one though (~4 weeks out from race) so maybe I'll try and get through it.

     

    JTReeves - I think doing the Mona a couple times before your mile race would work well!

     

    Thanks Slammin. I tried it.

     

    ~60 mi

    M: off

    T: 10.9 mi (8:04)

    W: 13 mi (7:36)

    T: 70 min (8:32)

    F: 10.5 mi with 20 min Mona

    S: 8.9 mi (7:39)

    S: 8.4 mi (7:55)

     

    Hadn't planned on doing a workout this week but legs felt they were ready to start getting going. I had thought about a ladder and Mona sounded like a good starr. It went ok. Turned out to be HMP, 5k, 3k, mile paces. Floats were 6:5x-7:3x. I got the legs moving faster than slow again, which is all I wanted.

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      Nice week Cinnamon - floats at marathon pace are impressive, IMHO.  You appear to be an aerobic monster.

       

      Raced a road mile this morning - ran 5:37, split as 79/88/86/84.  It is a rolling course, with a downhill start and an uphill second quarter, but I still went out a bit too hard.  Oh well.  I'll have plenty more chances at this distance this summer.

       

      Race report here: https://wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com/2019/05/race-report-loudoun-street-mile-may-27.html

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      ZZCaptainObvious


        Lots of good racing and training the past few weeks! I've been mostly out of the loop, but creeping here and there.

         

        Past couple weeks have been fine - starting to get back into the full swing of things for Madison Rockin' Brews (... and looking at backup plans in case the weather is bad or I decide that another crack at the pinata is worth it...).

         

        Last week was pretty good for me - ended up at 46.3 with 20-ish miles of that being at Ragnar Great Midwest and at sub-7. Ragnar is fun, but it's so much of a pain to organize everything for the road races. I much prefer the logistics of the trail runs. Team was a weird, weird hodgepodge of van 1 being coworkers and former coworkers, and van 2 being "my friends" (three people from college, one from high school, one random guy from a different Ragnar, and a vet student). So that was nice.

         

        This week was not as good - hit 40 on the week (in five days), but also had probably the hardest bonk that I've had in 18 months 2/3 of the way into Sunday's long run. Dehydration is no joke - and sunburn also doesn't help...

         

        -------

        Darkwave, I always enjoy your race reports! Thanks for writing them!

        jayluf


          Ran the Bayshore marathon this past weekend. Felt great leading up to the race, with thoughts of running 2:53 if ideal conditions were presented. The weather in Northern Michigan unfortunately didn’t cooperate. Temp + Dew point was 63 + 60 at race start rising to 68 + 63 towards the finish. I adjusted and went out in 1:27 low, but just never felt comfortable.

           

          Nutrition and hydration were good throughout, but the humidity slowly sucked all my energy. The last 10 were rough. I came home in 1:53. Really frustrating. I’ve done training runs faster and at an easier effort so I’ll take solace in knowing the fitness is there.

           

          Bayshore is a fun race in a really nice lakeside community. Course is great and definitely recommend a look. For now I’m excited to put marathon training behind me for awhile and get back to a summer focused on building speed. Decided to pass on a labor day marathon, instead adding CIM to my plans. Hope everyone had a good holiday weekend!

          Nimmals


            Nimmals, I've done the Moneghetti Fartlek before, but I never thought of playing around with it like you describe. The way I understood it it was a very very hard workout as I do the "off" parts with float recoveries at maybe MP or something. The "on" parts I go hard, and hard is, of course faster on a 15 sec segment than on a 90 sec repeat. Overall short, but tough as I never give myself much to recover. Just a breather.

             

            But you've sold me on the idea of doing it different at times, like maybe going harder during the on parts and more at easy pace during the off parts, and maybe even try something else.

             

            Great idea. And I realize that my understanding of "float" recoveries might be overzealous to stay at MPish pace? Or is that about it? Not that I think a float recovery = MP 1 for 1, I'm just using MP to give a pace idea of how I understand a float.

             

            Good post with lots of passion Smile

             

             Cyberic, - The most common way to do the Mona is to go for maximum distance, that's also the hardest way. As I said it's a scalable workout one you can play around with any way you like. Start out simple and then make it more complex or challenging. If any of you follow me on Strava I will run offs for the longer sets (90/60) from 7:00 to 8:30 or even slower as I get into the 30/15s my off can be anywhere from 6:30 to 5:00. Remember the Mona is a scalable workout, do it however suits your needs.

             

            Last week  my offs were 7 or faster my 90s are 5:00 flat and my 15s can be as fast as 3:55. When you make it a ripping kick your ass workout in the summer it can be so much fun. Especially if its falls within  ATP and anaerobic at the end. I make my Mona Dance.

             

            Date

            Run Type

            Distance

            Duration

            Pace

            5/20/2019

            Hill Sprints w/ Pyramid Ints

            7 mi

            1:12:3

            10:19

            5/21/2019

            Deek Quarters

            5.0

            45:19

            9:07

            5/21/2019

            Warm up

            2.0

            19:30

            9:45

            5/22/2019

            5 mi easy

            5.0

            54:50

            11:00

            5/22/2019

            6.9 easy

            6.9

            1:16:30

            11:02

            5/17/2019

            Mona fartlek

            8.3

            1:10:06

            8:30

            5/18/2019

            Easy run

            5.2

            51:03

            9:55

            5/18/2019

            Easy run

            5.8

            55:30

            9:12

            5/19/2019

            Easy run

            5.2

            57:29

            10:24

             

             workouts bolded

             50 mi

             

            Horrible Avg Pace

            steve_


            powered by plants

               

               Cyberic, - The most common way to do the Mona is to go for maximum distance, that's also the hardest way. As I said it's a scalable workout one you can play around with any way you like. Start out simple and then make it more complex or challenging. If any of you follow me on Strava I will run offs for the longer sets (90/60) from 7:00 to 8:30 or even slower as I get into the 30/15s my off can be anywhere from 6:30 to 5:00. Remember the Mona is a scalable workout, do it however suits your needs.

               

              Last week  my offs were 7 or faster my 90s are 5:00 flat and my 15s can be as fast as 3:55. When you make it a ripping kick your ass workout in the summer it can be so much fun. Especially if its falls within  ATP and anaerobic at the end. I make my Mona Dance.

               

              Date

              Run Type

              Distance

              Duration

              Pace

              5/20/2019

              Hill Sprints w/ Pyramid Ints

              7 mi

              1:12:3

              10:19

              5/21/2019

              Deek Quarters

              5.0

              45:19

              9:07

              5/21/2019

              Warm up

              2.0

              19:30

              9:45

              5/22/2019

              5 mi easy

              5.0

              54:50

              11:00

              5/22/2019

              6.9 easy

              6.9

              1:16:30

              11:02

              5/17/2019

              Mona fartlek

              8.3

              1:10:06

              8:30

              5/18/2019

              Easy run

              5.2

              51:03

              9:55

              5/18/2019

              Easy run

              5.8

              55:30

              9:12

              5/19/2019

              Easy run

              5.2

              57:29

              10:24

               

               workouts bolded

               50 mi

               

              Horrible Avg Pace

               

              Dude, what the hell are you doing running 7 miles at 11 min pace? Most of this isn't on strava so I can't check, but there's no way you can run that pace and maintain a good cadence.  I love you to the moon and back, but this is just nuts.

              5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

              *downhill AF

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                Jayluf - I saw on Strava - looks like a very tough day.  It's the understatement of the year, but....yes, the fitness is there.  CIM is a great choice.

                 

                CaptainObvious - thanks for the comments.

                 

                I find 11 minute miles impressive.  I've done that, but when in the company of someone else, and that's the point where I'm jogging in place.  But perhaps that's the benefit?

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                kramrunner


                  Summer #02
                  M    00 55 07       6.57 w/ 4x long hill sprints
                  T     01 03 57       8.0 tm w/ 2.5wu + 4x1k, 4x300 + 1cd, 0.5% -- km ~ 5:30 --> 5:20 rec: <120s walk, <90s walk (11/11.5mph) 400s ~ 5:15 - 5:00
                  W    00 51 17        6.18
                  Th    00 48 56       6.12 
                  F      -- -- --            URD PF sore
                  S     00 40 29        5.09 
                  S     -- -- --             URD PF very sore
                                               ====
                                              31.96

                   

                  OK, week for me. I got in a solid interval session on Tue, which felt way more comfortable than last week, but got ambushed by a PF spike over the weekend. Not sure what happened, I think it was a combination of a long drive, a bunch of walking and then sub-optimal hydration in 95F Kentucky weather. Btw, if you haven't been to the mammoth caves, add it to your bucket list!

                   

                  Jayluf: Such rotten luck. Anything up to 3 days beforehand would have been perfect weather. I know the feeling on the back half when dying there. At least the Traverse city area is so nice, it makes the few days around the race very bareable!

                   

                  Slammin: Well, I guess there's a name for everything. I'm a fan of that kind of varied pace stuff too, though I don't hit it anywhere near as regular as you and your clan!

                   

                  Darkwave: Solid mile. These short distances really take some time to master. I'm rubbish at them, always going out too hard. Good to hear you've got the GI stuff nailed down. Per the current interweb fads, I see a carnivore diet in your future.

                   

                  Cinnamon: Nice week. Getting things moving in the right direction. Bad luck cluminess of steeping in cracked pavement, tripping on cracked pavement in the dark and I'm just not sure with the PF. It's in my right foot and the lower calf on that leg is packed super tight, so I suspect that is contributing. It's not a single particular thing that I can nail down, just seems to come and go... annoying, but mostly manageable.

                   

                  JT: Solid week. I like the look of that T session assuming your TM calibration is sorted out. Fast stuff is so much harder on our legs than simple marathon training.

                   

                  Swim: Great variation in your week. Are you keeping your foot on the gas during the recoveries or are they full recoveries?

                  5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17)  -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)

                  2019 Goals: Assault on 2:40!         Next up: Indy Monumental (Nov 9)

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                     

                    OK, week for me. I got in a solid interval session on Tue, which felt way more comfortable than last week, but got ambushed by a PF spike over the weekend. Not sure what happened, I think it was a combination of a long drive, a bunch of walking and then sub-optimal hydration in 95F Kentucky weather. 

                     

                    Kram - sorry to read about the PF.  Is it any better now, a few days later?

                     

                    And yeah, funny on the diet rec.  There's a TON of stuff to support just about any diet for this stuff - it really just comes down to what works for the individual (though avoiding gluten, lactose, nuts, and highly processed meats, and emphasizing protein, Iron, Vit D, and electrolytes seem to be common themes).  Fortunately, I've already done the hard work of figuring out something that works for me (unless I accidentally stray) and is nutritionally sound.  And maybe, with the help of meds, I'll actually be able to broaden my dietary options (I may be naïve here)

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    madisonrunner


                      DW - I have UC too.  I was diagnosed in 2013 after starting to have symptoms in 2012.  I tried a ton of different medication options without success and even tried a major diet modification (SCD) which didn't really work since I couldn't get in enough calories and lost about 10 pounds in 1 month.  I did discover SCD yogurt which is great and I still make a half gallon every 2 weeks or so.  For a while it was rare to complete a 5 mile run without having to stop (sometimes 2-3x).  I even talked with a surgeon about the surgical option of removing part of the colon.  I blame the UC for a tibial stress fracture I got in 2014 as I took prednisone for 2 weeks to try to handle a flare and right after that got the stress fracture.  For the past 2 years or so I have been getting Remicade infusions every 8 weeks.  It has made a huge difference.  Now it's very rare for me to stop in the middle of a run though I do still have symptoms occasionally.  If you can handle it with diet alone that is great.  I do find spicy and fried foods cause problems but I agree that what works is different for everyone (and from what I have read handling it through diet alone is unusual).

                       

                      Nimmals/Kram - I am planning to do Lakefront and CIM with the goal of getting into 2:29Tight lippedx shape.  They are 9 weeks apart and both feature good organization, course, and weather (usually) so I'll give myself two good shots at it.  I'll follow Pfitz's 12 week plan from his 2nd edition book again, though this cycle I will not be limiting my mileage.  I'll plan to run what Pfitz says plus always run to/from work so most weeks will be 10-15 miles higher than the schedule.  Last cycle I limited my mileage to the weekly totals in the book so I often would have a day off on the weekend or would cut a midweek long run short.

                      Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Races:  CIM (12/8)

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                        Madison - thanks very much - that's very helpful to read, and inspirational.  And yeah, SCD just seems impossible for a runner.

                         

                        [My previous GI doctor, not a runner, would suggest during our appointments that I fast for up to 24 hours pre-race....Current doctor has done triathlons, and so is a bit more realistic.]

                         

                        For the most part, it seems diet has been working, but I have had some issues regularly - I just dealt with them by timing my food intake and caffeine use carefully since I didn't have a specific diagnosis (I've been indeterminate colitis for a long time). Low ferritin was one of my biggest issues, but I figured out an iron supplement that countered that and didn't irritate things.

                         

                        I'm on mesalamine as of this week, and I'm hopeful that with my mild case, that will be enough.  The nice thing is that I have not had a single Raynauds episode since starting mesalamine a few days ago (I usually have a few a week, regardless of temperatures).   And...the minor bit of lingering right hip tendonitis I've had has also vanished.  So there are many points of win.

                         

                        I have some naïve hope that I may be able to handle a bit more work, and also not need as much warm-up, since I seem to be less stiff than I used to be.  Or...could all be in my head.

                         

                        ***

                         

                        On a different note, I raced a 5K today.  Splits tell the story - 6:00/6:06/6:36/0:43.  Tried something different, and now I know....

                         

                        Race report: https://wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com/2019/06/race-report-kids-run-dc-5k-june-1-2019.html

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          *taps microphone*: "this thing on?  Anyone here?

                           

                          My week: 51 miles, 7 "miles" of pool-running, and 3000 yards of swimming
                          M: 3.5 warm-up, road mile in 5:37 (79/88/86/84), 3.5 cool-down.  Later 1000 yards recovery swimming.
                          T: 6 miles very easy (8:53), yoga, and 4 miles very easy (8:57)
                          W: 7 "miles" pool-running, and upper body weights/core.
                          Th: 7 miles including 1 mile uptempo (6:08) and DIY yoga
                          F: 4 miles very easy (8:52) and DIY yoga
                          Sa:  3.5 warm-up, 5K race in 19:27 (6:00/6:06/6:36/0:43), 3.5 cool-down.  Later 500 yards recovery swimming.
                          Su:  12 miles moderately progressive, from 9:22 down to 7:06, then light leg strengthwork and 1500 yards swimming.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            DW: Yes, it has been getting quiet here lately...thanks for keeping things going. Nice job on your road mile. I have one coming up this Saturday and am looking forward to it. Regarding your 5k, good that you gave a different pacing strategy a try. It seems like you are so good at negative splitting that it may be your optimal way to race. I'm sort of the opposite; I always go out to fast but that is how I generally PR. Then again, I haven't given a pre-planned negative splitting strategy a chance so I should probably do that to see how it feels.

                             

                            Good that you have a concrete diagnosis for the UC and nice that Madison could share his experience.

                             

                            Kram: I hope your PF is better. I hear you on the long rides contributing. I have had PF in my right foot for over a year, and it is made worse after long drives. Fortunately mine is in the bearable category so far...

                             

                            Madison: Great to see you are going for sub 2:30. Those are two great races so you should be well set up course-wise.

                             

                            Me: Building up the mileage and the long run. I tried the Monaghetti fartlek last week and really liked it. Thanks Nimmals for sharing about it! I may do it again this week to sharpen up for a road mile on the weekend.

                             

                            Weekly Summary
                            Monday, May 27, 2019 thru Sunday, Jun 02, 2019

                            <tfoot> </tfoot>
                            Day Miles Pace Description Egain Link
                            Mon 8.3 9:16 Trails in Sega Park 608 strava
                            Tue 10.1 7:51 Morning Run w/ Monaghetti fartlek 507 strava
                            Wed 6.1 8:30 Morning Run 356 strava
                            Thu 10.1 8:08 Morning Run 513 strava
                            Sat 10.2 7:28 Morning Run w/ 3 mile tempo (6:03 pace) 544 strava
                            Sun 20.1 8:01 Long run 981 strava
                              64.9 8:07   3509  

                            5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                            Up next: Hartford Marathon (Oct. 12)

                            Andres1045


                              On a different note, I raced a 5K today.  Splits tell the story - 6:00/6:06/6:36/0:43.  Tried something different, and now I know....

                               

                              Race report: https://wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com/2019/06/race-report-kids-run-dc-5k-june-1-2019.html

                               

                              Hmmmm, I'm not sure. I wouldn't give up totally on the idea of going out hard, anyway. Maybe you were just 1.1 or less short of being in perfect 5k shape.  Maybe your coach can give you some workouts that help extend that effort a little longer.

                               

                              I also ran a 5k Saturday, and I bombed it. Felt great in the first mile. Thought I was chilling a bit too much even. I was pleasantly surprised to see 5:34 when my watch clicked off. Then after the turn, I just didn't seem to have anything. I couldn't make my legs go. I ended up with 18:10 or 18:15 (the timing results kept changing, and I forgot to stop my watch when I finished).  I was quite disappointed with that. Well slower than last year, despite being in much better shape. But looking at the data after, my HR was where you'd see it for a full effort, so it wasn't that I just didn't push (hit about my max at the end).

                               

                              I'm really not sure why I ended up with this result. The only two things I can think of is that it's been too long since I've raced a 5k (a year) and I had a lingering stomach virus all week that stuck around too long. But I had the virus on Tuesday and I managed a solid workout, so I don't think I can blame much on that. Oh well.

                               

                              Oh, and Slammin, your buddy Sean Wade managed to win the 5k in something like 15:27. Not sure if he still takes the trip up for the mile race in NYC, but if so, you might want start getting ready. Looks like he's back in good shape at 53, or whatever age he is.

                               

                              This week is when the Houston marathon registration opens. I'm planning to sign up for the full for the first time in 5 years. So I'll try to keep a steady weekly mileage all summer and then do a real training build starting in September.  I'm looking forward to it, finally, after several crappy marathon builds where I've had little interest in putting in the work.

                              Upcoming races:  I dunno.

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                JTReeves - good luck in the road mile - it is one of my favorite distances to race, and I hope to focus on it after the half.   My coach approved me jumping into an 800, so I'm thinking I'll do that also at some point this summer, in hopes of improving my mile performance.

                                 

                                Andres - just a shot in the dark, but could you have been a bit dehydrated from the stomach virus?  When I hear "HR was high, but kept slowing" that's one of my suspects.  ("HR dropping and slowing" means fatigue/nutrition)

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.