2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 673 times)


Stotan Disciple

    Kram - thank you I was super bummed about the 10k. I lost to another 46 year old who had raced that morning as well a 10k. Then when he saw i was feeling bad he poured it on he told me he ran 2:28 at Boston. I was like WTH and he saw how I was sizing him up I said I outweigh you by 40 lbs. He said, he knows who I am and that I raced him in the mile. He said I should stick to the mile. I love that guy.


    Swim - I have some really great excerpts on the hill sprints text me and I'll send them along.


    Jmac -  my fav thing about summer is doubles and no shirt. I ran without a shirt this morning best feeling until the mosquito bite  (Typical when you stop to piss in the woods) but prior to that it was amazing.


    JTReeves caught the Rabat race do you notice how Tsgaye and Dibaba be making out after?? So much love or is that code for thank you for impedeing their progress while I build my lead and hold off their kick. She did the same thing. Dibaba sits on Pacers Tsgaye inserts herself as a stop gap. Dibaba Launches  from 700M - 750m to go and Tsgaye get in the way of Muir or Sifan to impede their forward progress ( go a round B). While Dibby Dibby girl sprints away.


    Weather more power to you, I don't know how you do it when i lived in that temperature I stuck to 3K and below so my longest runs were 10 miles.

    Thinking should be done first, before training begins.


    Mother of Cats

      Captain Obvious - thanks for the good wishes.  What is "Boston Livery"?  I've only heard that term used in connection with a car shuttle service of some sort (limo or similar).


      Training in different seasons - I've always thought that there's a big benefit in living in an area with different seasons because it forces you to diversify your training over the course of the year.  When it's sub-freezing, really fast stuff is hard, so that's when you rack up a lot of tempos and progression runs - aerobic work.  When it's really warm and humid, just the opposite - continuous tempos get split up, and easy to add 200s and hill sprints in.


      I actually really like the fact that we have a range of weather where I live - over the course of a year I experience everything from single digit temperatures to temps in the 90s with a dew point in the 70s - of course I don't get very many of either days, but I do get a few each year.  So I get the confidence of knowing that I can handle pretty much whatever weather gets thrown at me on race day.


      As for marathon training - I prefer doing it in the summer to fall, as opposed to winter.  Marathon training depends heavily on mileage, and even when it's super hot you can rack up the miles as long as you slow down and get plenty of water/electrolytes.  And it will hopefully be cooler for your race than for the training.  By contrast, in the winter the weather can force some missed days if you don't have a treadmill in your home.  And you risk training in cold and then getting the first warm day of the year.


      Nimmals - congrats on breaking a huge barrier in the 5K, and good luck this weekend!  And....donation made....


      Weatherboy - congrats on the win!  Crazy about the marathon being moved.  As for seeing the course long on the GPS - I never look at my watch when I run, so I didn't know it was long until I finished - my first clue was the time, which really made no sense; and then the GPS being so long was additional evidence.  The race had a really long out-and-back, and those always feel ridiculously long to me anyway.


      Kramrunner - every race is a lesson, isn't it.  I'm very much in agreement on the "no trails/gravel" in a 5K, though sometimes hills are just part of the territory.


      Andres - bummer about the leg - is it feeling better now?  I'm guessing soccer is one of those things one either needs to play regularly, or not at all, if one wants to stay in shape.


      Swim - honestly not sure what you posted, so I can't comment.....


      Mis-measured courses - I learned something interesting the other day.  Professional race management companies (at least the ones in this area) offer a la carte pricing.  And one of the menu options is confirming the accuracy of the course....So....you can have a reputable big local name company managing the race, but if the organization behind the race (charity or whatever) doesn't pay for the course to be checked, the course may not be set accurately.


      Race effort/recovery - interesting discussions of our different experiences.  I do think that recovery is a very individual thing, and I've always been on the slower side of recovery.  As I read the discussion, it also seems that for some of us, race effort is a very specific thing, while for others, including myself, it's a range.  I guess one way I'd explain it is that workout effort is 70-85% maximal effort, while racing is 90-98% maximal effort (I never go to 100%, because I tense up and don't run as fast as I do at 98%).


      Another way of putting it is...how much risk do you take in your effort - do you dance on that edge of imploding?  Or just bump up against it from underneath?  Both are race efforts, but one is more costly than the other.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        Nimmals: Congrats on the 15:59 5k; that is a great accomplishment!  Yes, I noticed the team tactics in the 1500m. It's still early in the season with the WCs happening so late this year; hopefully Sifan and Muir will figure out how to race her and turn things around.


        Weather: Nice 80 mile week. Congrats on that 5k win; it's especially impressive you got it just doing a workout!  Probably not a bad thing that your target marathon got moved into January; more cool weather training for your cycle. I do worry about Erie being early September, that it will be too warm. If the weather looks bad I will probably skip it and do Hartford.


        Kram: Nice job on the 5k; nothing wrong with going out a bit hot once in a while. I like the sub 17 goal. You'd be set up really well going into the Indy cycle with the speed & strength from that training. I hear you on getting out of bed to run in the cold, dark winter morning; I end up doing more and more of those winter runs on the TM as I get older it seems.

        2:52:16 (2018)

        cinnamon girl

          My week got jacked up but still good enough with 6 days running with 54 mi and 1 mini workout: 2 x 2k (7:30)


          From what I can remember - JTReeves - I would be very happy with that week. Very decent!

          Swim - you ok??

          JMac - looking forward to seeing how those 5ks go. They sound like they have the potential to be 2.9-3.3 mi. Should be fun though!


          I thought for sure I would have the track to myself yesterday when I went mid-day in 95 deg temps but there were four other folks.


          Ah yes, the great weather debate.


          Taper Czar

            cinnamon - ha I hope not! I did pick certified courses, but as dwave as shown, I'm not sure how much that is worth.


            DW - you said that you don't like doing long tempos in the summer, but then like fall marathons. Can you explain that?


            Nimmals - when you run in the preserve, do you usually stick to the paved path or do you get out onto the trails?


            Kram - it's great having you back here in general, please stick around this time!


            weather - after running in Fort Lauderdale in August, I have a good sense of how awful your running life must be! If it was a choice between that every day for 3 months or cold, I may go with the cold. At least in NY, we get breaks once a week where the humidity is low.

            5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


            Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 



              Ah yes, the great weather debate.

              Yup. I will say this, as miserable as our summers are, I'll take it for the winters that we get. I couldn't deal with both bad summers and terrible winters.


              The other thing to point out about the heat and humidity is that the worse part is how you go long stretches with zero relief. Weatherboy has it worse, since his terrible season seems to be longer, but in Houston, from essentially June through September you get almost no relief. Everyday is hot and humid, and each day builds on the one before. It's so hard to keep getting in enough fluids each day if you're running decent mileage. You can start out early in the summer with big workout/mileage goals, but almost everyone I know that tries to keep up an aggressive schedule over the summer becomes burnt out by the fall. I think it would be different if every 10 days or so you got a little bit of a break with a decent weather morning. But that just doesn't happen. This morning on people's Klimatt bot thing on Strava it said "possible drizzle". Nope. Just that humid. And 80F!


              DW - Leg is getting better. Almost 100% now. This has forced me to do my psoas stretches daily, so hopefully I'll keep that up and come out of this better than I entered.

              Upcoming races: Madrid (half) April 2020


              Stotan Disciple



                Nimmals - when you run in the preserve, do you usually stick to the paved path or do you get out onto the trails?




                Jmac  -  I do both sometimes I go through the preserve on the trails where the dogs are allowed. But in the summer its so humid. other times i stick to the path it really depends on if I'm alone or with other. The 2Ks are on the paved bike path. Once the ultra runners pick up all the ticks and thorns I run the trails mostly in the fall.


                Darkwave Thank you,  and good luck this weekend. Make friends with the race director. 


                Swim - I missed your response, please know I'm teasing but being serious.  Build hillsprints slowly.  I'm surprised the back of your knees didn't ache. Build up slowly with those things only thing to hammer is the effort.

                Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                cinnamon girl

                  Glad to hear nothing appears to be damaged Andres! I was going to comment if you could still play but just dial it back a bit but then what fun is that. And yes totally agree on the building up day after day, knowing there's no relief for months. I've done more treadmill runs since having moved to CA than I ever did in MN.


                  And Kram - as JMac said - hope you stick around. I like reading your posts about your running.


                  JTReeves - did you ask me the question? If I just change a workout as I go (you probably already know the answer) - yes. Especially track workouts are so easy to make adjustments. And also helpful in the heat to be never too far from safety and water.  And I suppose you can put me down for Berlin. Gah!    Goal is to get to the starting line healthy after a few months of consistent training  Thanks 


                  Stotan Disciple

                    Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                      Cinnamon: Yes, I asked you that question and I did expect that you modified things as you went. I actually probably end up changing what I originally plan to do on the way to the track more than I keep it the same. THe track really lends itself to those on-the-fly changes though. I change workouts on the road sometimes but a lot less than track workouts. I need to get back to the track; school ended this week for the HS where I usually go so I can go there now and don't need to get done so early, can take my time.


                      Awesome that you are doing Berlin! I updated the table. I would love to run Berlin at some point, and also London. I see that Jayluf is also down for Berlin.


                      Andres: When I see the temps and humidity you and Weather have to deal with, I realize I shouldn't complain so much about what we have here. My goal for this summer is to not bitch at all about the weather. We'll see how long that lasts....

                      2:52:16 (2018)


                        Captain Obvious - thanks for the good wishes.  What is "Boston Livery"?  I've only heard that term used in connection with a car shuttle service of some sort (limo or similar). 

                        Livery is decorations/uniforms. The shoes have the Boston unicorn on the back and the names of the cities on the insoles - they look quite nice; I just feel weird about it since, y'know, I'm not from there AND I've never run the race. Eh.


                        JTReeves - You can put me down for the following:

                        7/13: Andy Nielsen Donor Dash 5K (and hopefully, evening 1 mile). Aiming to be in the top 15 and sub 18:30; if the mile happens, let's say sub 5:35? (I haven't raced shorter than 5K since 2014 and have raced a proper mile/1600/1500 five times since high school?)

                        8/17: Madison Mini Marathon. Goal sub 1:24:37 (PR!)

                        8/31: Rockin' Brews Marathon. Goal 2:59:59 (Also a PR!)


                        To weather and training - I agree that not having the heat break makes running way worse. Actually, it makes being outside way worse. I'll take the risk of being iced in for a week at a time over a week over 85 non-stop.


                        Congrats on the 5K weather!


                        powered by plants

                          I'd rather race in the winter but train in the summer.  As bad as the heat and humidity is, the wind in the winter here slows me down WAY more.

                          5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

                          *downhill AF


                          Mother of Cats


                            DW - you said that you don't like doing long tempos in the summer, but then like fall marathons. Can you explain that?



                            Sure.  I think it comes down to vernacular, honestly, and how everyone has a different definition of "tempo."


                            For the group I'm with, tempos are usually done on the track, and range from 5K to 10K in distance, continuously, and are run at anywhere from a bit faster than 10 mile race pace to a bit slower than half-marathon pace.    I don't consider marathon effort work to be tempo - tempo is a higher intensity, and also a fairly narrow range of effort.


                            [we also do what my coach calls "cruise intervals" - 1600-3200m at a faster pace with 4-5 minute jogging recovery - I know that those are very different from the Jack Daniels definition of cruise intervals, and closer to what some others might call tempo.]


                            All work is important for all race distances, of course, but I find tempos (as I use the term) to be most important for 10M-Half distance training.  They have value for 5K-10K training and marathon training as well, but aren't quite as essential.


                            Training in a DC summer, many days it's just not practical to execute a continuous tempo due to heat/humidity - you can't maintain that level of effort for that continuous duration without overheating and digging a hole, and if you dial back to accommodate the conditions, you end up with too low an effort.  Just the nature of that combination of duration/intensity.


                            At the same time, you've got a bit more flexibility with marathon pace work, since it's lower intensity - I find that when it's just normal hot and humid, I can just pull back on the marathon pace, hit the correct effort, and still get all of the benefits.  There is a point temperature/DP wise where I can't even do that, and have to just get the miles in, but that's usually pretty extreme (temp 90, DP 75 was the last time I had to make that adjustment).


                            Cinnamon - excited for you and Berlin - have you done it before?  All of my teammates who have done it have raved about it.


                            Andres - I hear you on the no breaks - that's where we're lucky in DC.  It can get pretty oppressive, but it's very rare to go more than 10 days without getting a breather (you see what I did there) for a day or two.  Good news on the leg!  I find that feeling like I'm always on the cusp of injury has given me religion about my injury prevention work Big grin


                            Nimmals - thanks for the good wishes, and good luck to you as well.  This is a very well managed race, and so I'm confident the course will be accurate.  Of course, I said the same thing about Cherry Blosssom....


                            Changing workouts on the fly - I do this all the time - hazards/benefits of having my coach present and watching.    The announced workout for each day is usually a range (i.e. 6-10x800 or 1600, 1-2x1200, 1-3x800, tempo of 5K-10K) and then we decide each morning right before the start what the plan is (based on weather and how one feels).  And then revise as we go along, sometimes with quick words as I or my teammates run by my coach each lap

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              Captain: Updated the table with your races; nice goals. If you end up doing the mile I'll add that in.


                              DW:  Good luck on the half tomorrow!


                              Jayluf:  Are you still doing Berlin?  I seem to remember you mentioning something about CIM... not sure if your plans have changed.

                              2:52:16 (2018)


                                Sorry weird phone issues.


                                Slammin I didn't think you were being mean and I had been doing the hill sprints consistently over the last 2.5 months or so.  The groin issue was super fluky.  It's been fine since Sunday.


                                Weather in Flagstaff is usually good.  If we get fired it can be tough to breathe during the summer.  It we get 4 ft of snow at one time it's tough during the winter.  Its mostly about managing the altitude.  You can definitely over train and dig a hole you can't get out of if your not careful.

                                HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04