Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Just a quick question here. While doing some strides I noticed that the harder I used my arms, the faster I ran. I had never in my life intentionally used my arms for speed. But it was like as if this was some sort of metronome.
I mean I am reasonably new to running. So to the veterans around here : do you intentionally use your arms on long runs? Or am I just imagining all of this?
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
MJ - there's only normally two times I intentionally use my arms - at the start of a sprint to generate a bit of momentum, and when climbing hills. For a stride I can definitely imagine it helping as you are building speed.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Flavio I did the workout as I have never tried 400s and want to try and improve my speed. But yeah as a hobby jogger maybe not needed
Im on another motivated period. I look back at my strava and theres a strong pattern of 10 weeks at 80km/week and 10 weeks at 30 kms/week blocks.
Mick arm carry is an interesting topic. Your arms are like a counter balance for your lower body when you run with your hips/pelvis as the axis. In shorter races like 5ks I definitely use my upper body more in a stronger way to counter the work my legs are doing. But in a marathon you want to be relaxed.
The Kenyan ladies often use a high arm carry and swing both arms together kinda sideways. Ive tried it and it works ok but I just go with the standard opposing arm/leg action.
I counted Kipchoges cadence at Berlin at 192
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Flavio - what's happening with your presidential elections over there? Looks like a big change might be on the cards with someone who was a total outsider only a year ago maybe winning?
400's were one of my weekly bread and butter workouts that generated better 5K times for me. I'd say that they are very valuable in the final 800m left in a 5K - as you start recruiting those "miler" muscles to kick down competition and close hard. I sorely miss doing those but I'm about to get back into soon.Hard 400's make your 1K's feel easy. Hard 1K's make your tempos feel easy. It's a cascading effect!I ran the Chicago Marathon earlier today. Race report coming soon. It went really well!
Flavio Nice week and nice segment
Marco good job on the race
Mark nice week nice race too.
Piwi nice week
Bros glad to here you were able to run Chicago and things went well look forward to reading race report
the Ragnar relay was a fun experience, I must say I failed at taking it easy. the competitor in me took over...
I ended up running my 1st leg about 7pm this was the hardest leg. the sun was fading when I started and had to turn on my headlamps just before the 2 mile mark, I started my second leg about 2am very difficult to run in the dark on a trail... we were a bit behind as a team and did not get started on my 3rd leg until about noon..it was pushing 86 and with the Heat index it felt like 96
As a newbie to trail running I found the course pretty difficult and I am still sore from the effort. nothing like running on the roads...
as a team we placed 13th overall and 4th in the corporate category were were beat by one of our other teams (we had 3 teams competing) by 9 seconds...
I had a decent week of training just trying to be consistent.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Oct 01, 2018 thru Sunday, Oct 07, 2018
PR's
1m 5:38 (2018)
5k 19:59 (2019)
HM 1:33:56 (2018)
FM 3:23:07 (2018)
Intl. correspondent
Piwi - congratz on your pro career!
I’m often puzzles by the different arm carriage strategies. The East Africas seem to prefer high arms swinging together like you said, while many of the Americans prefer wide, chicken wing like arms at the sides.
MJ - I think it goes deeper than that. Your arms swing together with the back muscles on that side, creating a lever, or a sort of a pendulum effect.
So when you swing your arms forward it’s like you’re uppercutting someone, and you bring the scapula, shoulder, spine erector together.
As these muscles grow stronger, running becomes lighter due to this “lever”, and you can also create a more explosive movement because all the muscles are packed together in unissom.
That’s why sprinters look so effortless (super strong core), while that flailing dude can’t seem to run very fast.
Bro - yeah, so it’s a workout to increase power. That makes sense. I’ve noticed I can generally speed up at the end of races, but always by means of increasing my stride up to 220 steps per minute, I can’t seem to be able to command a longer stride.
Are you the dude who ran 3h19 with 1h40 at the half? If so great pacing!
Mark - He is a sort of outsider in terms of the center of power, but he’s been mooching in Brasilia for nearly 30 years. He’s one of the most direct results from the massive nation wide protests in 2013 which eventually led to the impeachment of our ex-president Dilma. Up until then the general public tended to the left with the workers party in power since 2002. Since then there’s been a shift to the right. He's concentrated voters on the center and right wing. It's quite impressive that he's amassed so much support via this grass roots internet based movement, rather than coming from a golden berth so to speak.
He is on the far right side of the spectrum (though to the left of the Republican Party). Liberal capitalism ideas, but with a lot of conservative ideas on the social aspect (abortion, gay marriage, etc).
He’s got a very good chance of winning on the runoff because he’s running against the workers party candidate, who by his own admission and marketing is a puppet of jailed ex-president Lula, from a party who is a staunch supporter of the Venezuelan regime.
These elections have however signaled better times ahead, with many old foxes kicked out of the congress and new faces with modern ideas going in.
Fun fact time now. The fear of impeachment is big between the candidates. As many of you know impeachment is not when the president commits a crime, it’s when they lose support in congress, who in turn finds something to charge them with.
Far right candidate Bolsonaro has chosen an army general as vice-president, knowing full well that the military dictatorship (1964-1989) is still fresh in peoples minds and nobody will want to put an army brat in charge.
Leftist candidate Haddad in turn has chosen the leader of the communist party as vice-president
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Flavio - Great week! Are they talking about me at another thread? Cfarr- Nice volume!
Marco and Mark - Great races!
Chicago Marathon / Race Report
Signed up for this race back last December as something I really needed to do again after a disastrous 2010 Chicago Marathon where I cramped badly at mile 18 (I strained my quad), and ended up hitting the wall soon after. It always bothered me that I failed so miserably at my first marathon that I vowed to do a marathon again after maturing a bit as a runner. So here I am, 8 years later, ready to try again.
I had a few goals.
I knew I was capable of getting under 3:20 after two 22 milers at 7:44 and 7:29 pace. I took the average of these paces (7:38) and chose that as my target pace with the intention of giving it everything I had at the end. This was a very wise decision. I battled strep throat all week and was only able to run the day before the race, but felt good enough to go for it. I hydrated and ate a lot all week, so I felt rested and ready.
The weather was rainy and a bit breezy, but I enjoyed it. People were complaining about dew points and humidity but I did not care. It felt cool enough to me. I’m in my B corral at 7:00 and I’m ready to go. Keep in mind these paces are from my Garmin and they are off. Race measured 26.4 on my watch.
Miles 1 through 5 - 8:56, 7:27, 7:16, 7:17, 7:27.
I cannot find the 3:20 pace group after the gun so it looks like I’m on my own. My first mile was actually around 7:56 and I’m worried a bit. But I begin to pick it up at mile 3. I can’t believe I’m running a marathon and I feel a bit over my head. Miles 6 through 11 - 7:29, 7:29, 7:29, 7:38, 7:33, 7:32
Feeling really good, take my first GU at mile six and hit my first water station. It’s raining now and it’s helping me stay cool. I’m having to put the breaks on a bit as I see myself dropping below a 7 minute pace multiple times which would spell disaster later on. I keep looking at my watch and I’m happy seeing 7:35’s consistently. This was my favorite section of the race by far and it was extremely loud with the crowds.
Miles 12 through 17 - 7:31, 8:14, 7:33, 7:30, 7:44, 7:37
Rain persists and I’m needing to use the bathroom really bad. I drank too much water and gatorade prior the race and it caught up to me. I stop around mile 13 and pee against a building and jump back in resulting in my worst mile. I remain calm and just stick with it. I go through 13.1 miles exactly at 7:38 pace (1:40:15)
Miles 18-21 - 7:33, 7:34, 7:30, 7:25
People are now blowing up and slowing down. My Garmin is really off so I think I’m running faster than I really am. My legs are starting to feel heavy but it’s not really much of an issue…the race still feels very easy.
Miles 22-24 - 7:33, 7:24, 7:42
The long trip back up north. I’m blowing past everyone now, practicing a forward lean and faster cadence. Calves are starting to cramp but I’m OK. At mile 24, my watch said 3:02 and I soon realize that I need to turn it up now to get under 3:20. I’m scared but prepared to suffer and possibly blow up. Miles 25-26.2 - 7:28, 7:26, 6:25 I’m running at a hard tempo pace and telling myself that didn’t come all this way for nothing. I hit mile 25.8 and start sprinting. I head up hill and turn and see the finish line for the first time down the hill. I look at my watch and it says something like 3:18:50. OH SHIT. I blow past what seems like 60-80 people and cross the finish at 3:19:55 on my watch! I scream really loudly, as it was an absolutely adrenaline rush to crush the last mile of marathon like that. I find my wife in the Runner Reunite and she shows me her phone:
FINISHING TIME 3:19:59. I am in shock and I almost didn’t pull it off and I can’t believe I never hit the wall. This was by far one of my best races ever. I did everything I thought I could do. My training this summer was very inconsistent due to injuries, illness and travel, so my mileage average was only 50mpw. The time may not be great compared to a lot of people here, but I’ve struggled with really long races for years and I never thought I could run in the 3:10’s let alone even finish a marathon.
I found the key to this race was CONSISTENCY. Never staying from that target pace even though it’s so tempting to go into 5K race mode.
RIP Milkman
Boy this forum really took off over the weekend.
Flavio - Your segment race report confirms what I said earlier: you always have the best ones. November 18 (May 12 equivalent here in the states) is pretty warm for a half, but given you skipped racing the entire winter, you can't complain! Get it done!
Steve - Glad you like it! I think I mentioned this earlier, but the trick is to start with about 10 light passes, 10 medium passes, 10 hard passes, and then find where the knots are. When you find one, the goal is to put as much pressure on there as you can and hold it for about 20-30 seconds. Then, do another 10 light to medium passes over that spot.
Mark - That segment looked rough that you ran, good job.
Piwi - if you want to keep developing the speed, you can start with 200s, or alternating 200/400. Both times, take the same amount of recovery as you ran. Rune put it perfectly - you are not trying to develop aerobically in these so you should be taking full recovery. Developing speed is actually a great way to start up again. Usually, my perioditization involves speed first (200/400 repeats), then VO2 max (1k-1200 repeats), then lactate threshold work (1-2 mile repeats).
Corey - I did a Ragnar two years ago, it was really quite the unique experience. It rained the entire time so we were somewhat miserable in our tent sitting in so much wet clothing (we did a trail one too), but afterwards it provided some great memories. Also, I was not a trail runner. I couldn't believe how slowly you had to run these segments! I was used to 7:45 on the road but many segments I couldn't crack 9:00. I will say that running in the middle of the night on a trail is an experience you'll never forget.
Bro - great race. Hopefully you learned a bit more about yourself and racing that will help you crack that 90 minute barrier in the half.
Me - Hit my all time peak this week in terms of mileage. I had to bail on my Wednesday workout when I felt very nauseous during it, but I think that's because I only ate a salad for lunch. My long run on Sunday was a disaster. I actually intentionally had my long run planned for Sunday in order to stay heat acclimated (temps in the upper 70's and KP in the low 70's), as I don't want to lose it in the coming weeks with the potential for warm weather race day. Anyway, I had to death march the final 3 miles. I pretty much know why it happened (failed to eat dinner the night before so only running on breakfast, humidity got to me, and my legs felt totally cooked just 5 miles into the run). Anyway, also developed a tiny fever after the run and lost my appetite, but now 5 hours later I feel fine. I've described that weird sick/fever feeling before to you guys, I think it's my body shutting down for a bit when I push too hard. Luckily my previous 2 weeks of training felt great, so I'm not too worried. I know I only have 1 week left of training and all of the impossible workouts are now behind me. Marathon training is a fickle thing: some weeks you feel amazing, and other weeks are complete crap.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Cobra Commander Keen
Flavio - I like the RR! I got a notification the other day that someone took one of my CRs, by a whopping 7 seconds across half a mile. The guy did a really short out-and-back, so he clearly just wanted the CR. As soon as I have time I need to go out there and put it permanently out of his reach!
Mark - Great job on the relays, despite being sick.
Bro - Awesome job in your redemption marathon! Did you have your watch set to auto-lap?
Flavio - Sounds like you have some interesting national politics!
JMac - Congrats on the weekly and monthly mileage PRs! We're getting close to the end now, aren't we?
A light(ish) week done from me, including my slowest-ever raced HM. We'll see if I come up with a RR for this one or not. 3 more big weeks ahead for me (hopefully 80-85miles/128-137km) befor I FINALLY hit the taper. I pushed my scheduled workouts back a day (from Mon/Thurs to Tues/Fri) to allow an extra easy day between that first workout and the half. While I felt fine during the run this morning, I likely wouldn't have been able to hit the workout the way I want to if I did it today.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Mark, Marco, Corey - Nice work in your relays!
Flavio - Good work on your segment. I don't have many records, but I just lost one in Norway. Too bad I can't really go for it when I stop by my parents on my way to Amsterdam as I will be in full taper mode. I guess I will have to give it a try next spring or summer.
Piwi - Good work on your reps. Jack Daniels actually has a suggested 6-week progression for these depending on mileage and how fast you are. If you are interested I can see if I can dig it out. I went through most of this progression in May/early June but probably should have tried to do the workouts twice a week instead of just once a week.
Bro - Sounds like you raced an outstanding race in Chicago! Congratulations. Your RR actually inspired me to do exactly like you, stick with 3:20 (hopefully in a pace group) and kick at the end. Right now anything faster is more of a hope than anything, and starting at the 3:20 pace seems like the sensible thing to do.
Keen - Solid week again for you. I'm impressed by your consistently high mileage!
JMac - Outstanding week for you! Hopefully this will pay off in November.
I had a very mixed week. Had a great tempo workout on Wednesday, but yesterday nothing seemed to work (might have been a combination of several things, including unusually warm temperatures for us here - 80s). As a result of feeling like crap yesterday I cut my workout short (did 2-2-1 miles at tempo effort instead of 2-2-2) and just did a mile and a half cooldown instead of the planned 8. So distance wise I guess my taper has already started. This week I have some crazy E-T-M-E-T-M-E workout on Wednesday and 10 easy miles for the weekend. I still have no idea what pace I should start at in 2 weeks.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Rune - Thanks! You can do it. It's all about those 22 mile long runs. We have similar times in the half (1:34-1:35) it's all about being patient in the full. Man, it was tough not to capitalize in splitting fast miles in the beginning. Just make sure to keep hydrated and take in 3 to 4 gels . Get comfortable at 7:35-7:38 pace and just set your body on autopilot. The race was just more mental at mile 24 than anything.
Keen - No, but my watch was really on target in miles 2 through 9, maybe one or two seconds off. That helped tremendously in keeping with it. It went really wonky around mile 14 but by then it was just running by feel and try to keep in close proximity of a few older runners who were very consistent. I'm still smiling about this race. What an experience. It's an incredible feeling running hard past 100's of people in the last 2 miles and feeling really strong after nearly 30 miles of running.
I'm still smiling about this race. What an experience. It's an incredible feeling running hard past 100's of people in the last 2 miles and feeling really strong after nearly 30 miles of running.
Ah the equal/negative split marathon feeling. So much different than the death march. My first one was a death march and I finished saying "I'll never do one again" even though I obviously signed up for more. My second marathon involved a negative split and although dead at the end, I was all smiles like you.
My first one was a death march and I finished saying "I'll never do one again"
Hmm this sounds familar to me.
Bro - congrats on the race and negative split. I'll admit that with you having been sick leading up to the race I thought it could be pretty tough going but you clearly executed a really good race, well done!
Corey - well done on the relays, gotta say trails at 2am in the dark is pretty ambitious!
JMac - nice week, your comments on your LR reminded me of my last 28km'er last year before the marathon which was absolute misery.
Keen - nice week again, I hope the post-race bratwurst was good! After the relay on Saturday my team-mates were pretty much trying to get a beer in me straight away but it was a good half-hour before I could stomach it!
Rune - nice week... and yeah pretty much what JMac said about the ups and downs of marathon training.