Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Marco - good luck. What distance?
Flavio - where are you?
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Jmac: thanks. I just re-read the phase I of the JD HM plan. He suggests to move to Phase II once you hit 30 miles pw and to increase every 4 weeks by 1 mile per weekly workout throughout phases I & II. I was in phase III and increased mileage. So I was really asking for it. I will probably take you advice over JDs recommendation this time.
Keen: You should take a leather glove with you. The hawk might eventually come and sit on you hand thanks for the gel gu review - I dont know where to buy them but I am eager to check them out.
Piwi: you mentioned you drink two beers at night and I immediately thought oh my poor fella they dont have any good beers down there. I remember your Australian neighbours where drinking this awful piss calle tripple X or quadruple X? Then I went to google it and found a guy ranting about heineken pretty funny:
As a Dutchman myself, let me start by offering everyone who ever drunk a Heineken my sincere apologies. You were probably better off having a cup of unfiltered canal water in Amsterdam. The horrible taste of this brand through the years has been covered up by brilliant marketing strategies. Which foreign company was first to drop of a few beers after the American prohibition? Right, Heineken. Who was supplying the Japanese soldiers (the same who tortured thousands of Dutch people in concentration camps that made Dachau look like a 3 star resort) with beer during World War II? Right, Heineken. Who raised the prices per bottle on purpose to make the brand seem exclusive? You know it, Heineken. These green bottles don’t even deserve to wear the word ‘beer’ on their labels. It’s polluted water with 5% alcohol, leaving for prices as if the Dutch king brewed it himself. And like the other major players on the international beer market, Heineken too is buying lots of nice old breweries that are struggling because they hold on to their original recipes. All over the world decent brands have been completely ruined by switching to ‘the Heineken Way’. Thanks a lot, you deserve your number one spot.
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
CFarr - I use SIS gels on longer runs as they do not need to be taken with water. For a 2 hour run I'd generally have two of them, and would normally have some toast with peanut butter before running. There's an important caveat here that my runs are always first thing in the morning - I really doubt I'd crank out 2 hours on an empty stomach without refuelling. I'm impressed JMac can do it, but it probably tells you also that fuelling is a bit of an individual thing and it might take a bit of trial and error to see what will work for you. I tend to run my long runs faster than most so that probably makes a difference. The main point to remember is that you shouldn't need fuel on shorter runs, and longer runs are largely designed to train your body to burn fat so you don't want to use fuel unless you need it.
Marco - good luck.
MJ - Heineken gets marketed as a premium beer over here but I always wondered if in the Netherlands it was basically the equivalent of Lion Red (a fairly cheap beer here in NZ, the nicest thing you could say about it is that it isn't terrible and is probably better than XXXX) - I guess that's true! There has been a massive craft beer trend in NZ over the last 2-3 years as in many other countries. I don't really get it personally, I just want a beer that is relatively inexpensive and tastes good and it doesn't need infusions of butterscotch or whatever. So I tend to go for the likes of Boundary Road Brewery. Although I am much more of a wine and bourbon drinker (not together!) than a beer drinker anyway.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Cobra Commander Keen
I also agree with JMac regarding Daniels' M pace being really aggressive unless you're doing 80+ MPW, the other paces do seem really close though.
I'll differ somewhat on HM fueling - While I don't think it's by any means necessary to fuel during one, I think it can help since the brain naturally wants to conserve resources (glycogen, in this case) - which can lead to you slowing without wanting to (central governor theory). Taking in some carbs, or even just a swish & spit of sports drink, signals your brain that you're not going to run out of fuel so there's no need to try limiting performance to conserve resources.
Mick - You're welcome. And don't think taking a glove with me hasn't crossed my mind!
As a non-drinker I can easily forgive the Dutch for Heineken thanks to the stroopwafel. I had a buddy in college who started drinking Heineken in college specifically because everyone thought it was nasty, and therefore no one would ever steal his beer.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
RIP Milkman
I think that's a fair point and let me clarify. I think you should train without carbs, but it's completely okay to take some Gatorade during a race for the reasons you're stating. Obviously practice a few times while running at those intensities to make sure you feel okay stomach-wise.
MJ - Loved the post. I used to like Heineken when I was in college but man now when I even get a smell of it, it reminds me of skunks out on the countryside. It's funny how some of these beers get across borders. I love when I go to Europe, I find Budweiser as the main American beer on tap. Amazing what companies with good distribution and marketing can do huh?
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Heinecken is my favourite beer. I like the taste and have no problem with it 😀
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Slight beer snob here. There are a LOT of good craft breweries in NZ. Some have gone under and more will as there is just too many. One of the local breweries (Kereru) has a factory store where you can purchase by the litre at a good price.
A few of my favourites are Panhead Oat Stout, Kereru Coconut Porter and Tuatara Sauvinova.
Out of the mainstream beers, Boundary Road is one of the better ones.
In the US, it's gone hyper local. If you travel outside of your local region, you won't recognize more than 3/4 of the beer on tap that isn't from a major producer. 10 years ago or so, there were craft breweries that tended to be nationally known. Now it's all about micro brews. To Watson's point though, it isn't sustainable.
I go back and forth. I like a good beer if I'm just having one or two. If I'm having fun with some college buddies, it's going to be Bud Light. Try drinking 5 IPAs in a night and tell me how that long run goes the next day
Two thoughts I've had recently.
First - my last race made me realize a 10K is much closer to a half than a 5K. I always thought the opposite is true, but 10ks are much more of a grind whereas 5ks go from "I'm doing okay" to "holy shit I'm dying someone please just hit me with a lead pipe and end my misery" in about 2 minutes. I actually think I like the slow grind more. Guess it means I'm getting old.
Second - You know how some people have "shower thoughts?" Reddit has a bunch of good ones (https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/). Anyway, I had this thought: I forget that Mark/Piwi/Watson are Kiwis from an accent POV. I read their posts as if it's an American accent, but I should really thinking of it in a New Zealand accent. For some reason, it blows my mind when I think of that. I had this thought while shaving, so I guess it's a shaving thought? I am weird.
JMac - I agree re 10k vs. 5k. There's nothing quite like the misery of the last 1km of a 5km. A good 10km is hard but it's not the sheer gasping for oxygen you get in a 5k.
For some reason your comment on shower thoughts made me think about Piwi talking in a thick New Jersey accent. The NZ accent is actually pretty tricky and harsh by world standards so you probably would follow us better if you just stick to imagining the US accent haha.
Well here I am, I am a new user here, and decided to check out the forums. My next goal is a sub 1:20 half, so this thread stuck out to me bc of that and its immense activity. I guess I should probably introduce myself first.
My name is Matthew, 18, from the Chicago area, Illinois, USA. I just graduated high school, so I'm pretty new to this whole long distance thing considering most of my running career has been done with races between 800m to 3 miles in mind. For anyone wondering, my high school ran Paavo training. This spring I raced the 400m and 800m pretty exclusively, with a 1600m time trial at the end of the year. My PR's were 400m: 54.0, 800m: 2:01.9, 1600m: 4:34.4. Sometime this last winter I made the slightly bold decision to sign up for Grandma's Marathon this June (last Saturday June 16th) only 4 weeks after my last high school track meet. My goal for the full marathon was sub 3:00:00 to hopefully guarantee a BQ. A brief race recap for those interested:
The plan was to go out conservative and move in the second half to conserve energy (especially in the legs). I knew I had the speed and oxygen capacity to break 3:00:00, but my longest run prior to the marathon was only 15 miles, so I was worried about leg fatigue. First half was right on pace with a 1:29:04, had a quick pit stop around mile 9, took in 2 gels, and was feeling pretty great. From miles 12-20, I was rolling with 6:40's pretty effortlessly (6:52 goal pace), so I knew I had a big buffer, and sub 3:00:00 was almost a guarantee at this point. Last 10k I decided to throw down to see how far under 3:00:00 I could make it, and I always had 2:55:00 as a landmark in the back of my mind. So I dipped below 6:30, getting down as low as 6:09 in mile 24 to finish in 2:54:49.
This was my first (hopefully of many) marathon, and a Boston Qualifier, so I plan on running Boston this April. My tentative goal for Boston is sub 2:50:00, and I am already registered for the Rock 'n Roll Arizona Half Marathon on January 20th, and hope to break 1:20:00 as a lead up to Boston. Seeing as my training knowledge for half and full marathons is very limited, any workout or training recommendations would be greatly appreciated! Also, I have no idea how to get past runs from Garmin Connect to RA, I signed in, but nothing has synced automatically. Thanks!
PR's: 800 - 2:01.9, 1600 - 4:34.4, 3 mile - 16:00, Full Marathon - 2:54:49
Goals: Break 1:20 HM, Break 2:45 FM, Break 34:00 10k, Break 16:00 5k
Strava link
Rune - Interesting on the different Garmin paces on the treadmill between shoes. I'm guessing that your cadence is lower wearing the Adidas, leading to slower arm swing and slower estimated pace. Just a theory. I'll introduce a plug for Stryd, which has been quite accurate and consistent pace-wise for me, indoors and out.
I took a look at this and my cadence is nearly identical at the same pace between the shoes, but at least I've learned that in general my cadence slows down on the treadmill, and also on my easy pace runs in general around 8-8:45 pace. I guess I should pay closer attention to my cadence at those paces.
Regarding fueling - I've gone more and more away form using any during my longer easy runs, but will definitely start doing some during my m-pace runs. I also rarely drink anything on runs of less than 2 hours, after reading advice from former Norwegian long distance champ Ingrid Kristiansen that she didn't think it was necessary unless it was really warm outside. I will also make sure I test out the energy drink of choice in Amsterdam before the race so I know I can drink it if needed. The one time I drank something in a race without testing it first; my quads were cramping in a triathlon last year at the beginning of the run so I gulped down some Nuun electrolytes to try to help it, I got a massive side stitch that lasted for 3 miles of a 10k run. It was not fun.
Marco - How did your race go?
Piwi - Looks like you're back nicely.
Flavio - Looks like you're enjoying the area around the Mediterranean.
JMac, CK - Thanks for the advice regarding Daniels m-pace. I will reevaluate my paces once I get a couple of more workouts on the road.
Matthew - Welcome! You got some really strong times and had a fantastic debut at the marathon but should have plenty of room to improve on the marathon distance without doing much more than increase your speed endurance for the distance. When you mentioned your relatively short longest training run I instantly thought about Grete Waitz of Norway who won her first New York Marathon off a longest training run of 12 miles. She ran a 2:31 debut off a 4:27 mile PR so don't be afraid to aim higher with your goals. I know it's kind of an unfair comparison with someone who turned out to be a world class marathon runner, I just think you have a lot of potential going for you.
It worked surprisingly well do do a threshold workout on the treadmill today, apart form the fact that I was sweating some absolutely ridiculous amount during the run. My tank top and running shorts were absolutely drenched after the run, actually dripping wet, and it took a while to rehydrate again, some of it which might have happened with a couple of beers by the pool . I'm looking forward to running on roads back home again though, that's for sure.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Matthew - welcome. 2:54 is a really good debut, I thought it was going to be a classic "I fell apart mile 20 and finished 3:10", but you didn't. Given things are going well, only make minor changes, don't make big changes just because you read it on the internet.
Beer: I like beer but my stomache doesnt anymore. Used to love Heineken back in college. Dont anymore. Has to be ice cold on a hot summer day and preferrably either light or flavored. I am too much of a wine guy by now to know all the micro brewers and their crafts. But I have another 50 years ahead of me (hopefully) and plenty of time to find out
Keen: I have read through those gel reviews. great info there. since I dont run any further than the half marathon distance and my long runs are rarely longer than 2 hours, I am more of a caffeine guy. I liked that there was a link to someone who makes his own gels. I mean they cost about 3 bucks here. And contain all sorts of stuff that I dont really want/need. Just have to think about how to take them along. Are there any reusable tubes? the person was sealing them. I dont have that equipment at the moment....
Matthew: welcome! I use Jack Daniels books. His 3rd edition is great as it includes practically all distances starting at 800 meters. and if you plan on joining the track team in college then I would his methods should be close to what you will be doing there. He used to coach collegiate track teams. Good luck and I guess Mark has a fast running buddy now
Matthew - welcome! Those are some super-sharp times and that marathon debut is really impressive especially the negative split at that pace. You probably don't need to change a lot at this stage but including some more long runs in your training will be beneficial. I focus more on half marathons and include a lot more workout volume than the average runner and certainly a lot more than most competitive marathon runner in terms of % of training volume but I'm weird like that. If you're routinely hitting long runs of 25-28km / 14-16 miles then I've found it really provides the endurance to push hard and maintain a sharp pace at the back end of a half marathon. You've obviously got the speed from those shorter distances already.
Rune - a friend of mine (who worked for a brewery) used to swear that beer didn't actually dehydrate you, and that it was actually impossible to get drunk on beer because of all the electrolytes and B vitamins in it. Can't say that made a lot of sense to me.