Forums >Off the Beaten Path>Why Is the Republican Field So Extreme?
Why is it sideways?
From the occupy Wall St. website:
This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.
So, no, this is ridiculous. There is no list of coherent demands, except that the super-wealthy moneyed interests quit hijacking our democracy.
From 500,000 feet most things can be made to look similar. Via Mother Jones (not exactly a Tea Party mic) here are the demands of the OWS crowd. list of demands...
From 500,000 feet most things can be made to look similar.
Via Mother Jones (not exactly a Tea Party mic) here are the demands of the OWS crowd.
Feeling the growl again
From 500,000 feet most things can be made to look similar. <<snip>>
haha, if that's true, thanks for the chuckles C-R. Given that Jeff already knew this I'm confused why he's asking why the Tea Party isn't jumping on this.
MTA: Yes, I figured that was too ludicrous to be true.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Maybe because it's not true.
Look, you guys can continue to believe that lefties are crazy, unreasonable, and incoherent. And we can continue to believe that tea party righties are racist, ignorant, and out of touch.
Or, maybe, we can figure out that we are on the same page with a lot of this stuff.
Both extremes are true (though the racial accusations to the right are largely unfounded, it's just because they favor cutting entitlements it seems). Since we live in a time that plays to the extremes, that's what we're left with.
Actually, I believe that we still have a choice about whether or not we want to paint folks as extreme or insult them before listening to them.
I don't know the answer, but I agree with your 3 bullet points.In general, I don't believe we have a Democrat vs. Republican problem. We have a problem with government. I think that most non-Washington government people would agree with those 3 bullet points.
Me too! (With the addition that the problem with government stems from a problem with undue influence and power on govt from certain segments outside govt.)
Yeah I thought that might wither get a rise or a chuckle. I found it funny when it first hit the web.
Seriously though, I don't see the commonality based on the interviews and actual information on their website. They talk about the 1% "not allowing". Last time I checked there is still some right of self-determination.
Since they are leaderless, I wanted to see who supports them. Well lo and behold it is mostly union and progressive groups. No big surprise until you start looking at some of their policies. So take a look at Working Families Party, National People's Action and the Jobs Party (I won't even go into Soros backed MoveOn). The irony of that one is just too much. They are railing against the top 1% supported by a group that is mostly founded by one the 1% who made his money by nearly breaking the British Pound. Classic.
So beyond the "Yeah, were not happy with current things." I don't see where they have a much in common with a group asking for smaller government.
"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel
http://ncstake.blogspot.com/
The same critiques were made of the Koch brother affiliation with the Tea Party.
But what if these folks--Koch and monied "progressive" interests--are just trying to co-opt a movement that is starting from elsewhere and attempting to go elsewhere. What if this is the story the right is telling you so that you don't join them. Just like the left was told about the Koch bros to keep us from joining the Tea Party...
The same critiques were made of the Koch brother affiliation with the Tea Party. But what if these folks--Koch and monied "progressive" interests--are just trying to co-opt a movement that is starting from elsewhere and attempting to go elsewhere. What if this is the story the right is telling you so that you don't join them. Just like the left was told about the Koch bros to keep us from joining the Tea Party...
I like a good conspiracy plot as much as the next one but I can't buy that as the root. Personally I think that the media outlets love this diametric as it plays into their business (either left at CNN or MSNBC or right at Fox or talk radio) and allows them to fan the flames of the extremes.
The OWS group looks more like a mob and their attempt to tie to the Arab Spring (their words on their web site) is absurd as I don't see any dictator suppressing our freedoms and rights as is/was the case. It looks more like Greece and France (think the student riots a few years back by daring to make people pay for school and work 36 hours per week - yikes) to me.
I am not suggesting that this is an organized conspiracy, simply that those with money, power, and media influence get to tell the story of the events, just as they get to dictate media influence.
It is in those interests to paint this event as an incoherent lefty mob that no one on the right can relate with. Just as it was in those same interests to paint the Tea Party in certain ways that keep us from forming cross-party alliances that shake up the power structure in Washington.
It is the choice of posters on this thread whether they want to continue to play that tired game, hurl epithets, and seek for differences instead of common ground.
I assumed the anger was more at the private sector (hence Wall Street and not D.C.). I'm not saying I'm right. I just assumed it was anger at things like "the bank got bailed out on my tax dollars and now the same bank is turning around and squeezing me on my loan" kind of thing.
I am not suggesting that this is an organized conspiracy, simply that those with money, power, and media influence get to tell the story of the events, just as they get to dictate media influence. It is in those interests to paint this event as an incoherent lefty mob that no one on the right can relate with. Just as it was in those same interests to paint the Tea Party in certain ways that keep us from forming cross-party alliances that shake up the power structure in Washington. It is the choice of posters on this thread whether they want to continue to play that tired game, hurl epithets, and seek for differences instead of common ground.
I watch Fox news many weeknights, mainly because the people I'm with like to watch it and really at that point, I'm tired and just veging. Some of their discussions are interesting and balanced and I get other views from other sources.
To be fair, they do have some commentators who are at the center. No regular commentators that are truly on the left, especially since Alan Combs left "HANNITY (and Combs)." Juan Williams is not cognizable as a liberal any more.
If Fox were my main news source, I would assume that the Occupy Wall Street people are childish yahoos who have no real sense of how their mommies and daddies earned a living in the real world. But, you know, some things didn't quite make it to the Fox broadcasts.
"If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus
I would say that we can no longer make a clear distinction between the public sector and the private sector. Do small businesses have anything in common with Wall Street (does the same concept of "private sector" really adequately describe both of these capitalist enterprises)? Does Washington have anything to do with the common good (does the concept of "public" really apply to government anymore)?
These are the questions that the protest is raising, I think. And I add the "I think" not as a way of hedging my statement, but as a way of pointing out that how we choose to interpret this event will determine to a large degree whether or not it ends up being successful or meaningful.
The battle is not between private interest and public interest; it's not between business and government. The battle is between the interests of the vast majority of ordinary Americans and the interests of a small and powerful few.
Here's the manifesto of sorts from the Wall Street occupation:
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known. They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance. They have sold our privacy as a commodity. They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit. They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit. They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt. They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. * To the people of the world, We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power. Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone. To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal. Join us and make your voices heard! *These grievances are not all-inclusive.
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.