Why Is the Republican Field So Extreme? (Read 1977 times)

    (Bold added)

     

    Are they really? Can't imagine why.

    Because they are being emotionally lazy.  With many of the ones in my circle, I see it as an easy broad-brush way of looking at things.  I think it is a fundamental laziness to wave off the members of the "public," (yourself excluded, of course!) as stupid and unable to know what is really good for them.  I see many on the left do this, too.  Many of them look at conservatives as people who really couldn't care less for the greater good.  This is also a kind of laziness, not being able to see that conservatives really do think of their paradigm as being directed to the greater good.  Many really really believe that wealth does trickle down, if only we can get the money into the right hands.  

     

    Andy and Jeff, I'm really enjoying the points you're making.  

    "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

      Are they really? Can't imagine why.

       

      Ha, yeah, as far as I can tell, this is one of the primary intuitions of the right--kind of where the right begins its political reasoning.

       

      I think that one of the primary intuitions of the left is faith in human nature and our ability to solve problems; I think it's from this space that the left begins its chain of reasons.

       

      From the left, the right looks like a bunch of cynical grouches. From the right, the left looks like a bunch of hopeful naives.

       

      Those are gross stereotypes, but I think they more or less paint the picture.

        This will sound ignorant but I have a hard time believing that most people are really either left or right.  It makes it frustrating when debates get framed this way.  I recognize that this is also likely a product of my own political laziness. 

         


        Prince of Fatness

          I should put a disclaimer at the end of every post: "I could be wrong," because hey, I could be wrong.

           

          I could be wrong, too.  Like spaniel said what is behind what I says is my personal experience and upbringing.

           

          I have complained about "big government" on here.  Looking back, at a minimum it is incorrect use of words.  Probably "inefficient government" would be a better term.  I suppose that I do not care how big government is as long as it is run efficiently.  I also believe that in larger entities, the task of running things efficiently becomes more difficult.  I guess that's where "big" comes in.

          Semi-retired.

          Scout7


          CPT Curmudgeon

            OK, let's define what "Right" and "Left" actually mean here.

             

            Because I think there are terms being tossed about with loose definitions.

             

            Let's also be clear that we aren't actually talking about political philosophies or beliefs.

              This will sound ignorant but I have a hard time believing that most people are really either left or right.  It makes it frustrating when debates get framed this way.  I recognize that this is also likely a product of my own political laziness. 

               

              I have been framing it this way, but in my defense the debate is framed this way by a two party process that basically demands that you square your political reasoning with one side or the other if you want to have a relevant say.

               

              I will also admit that a lot of what I say on here is motivated by the fact that I am an argumentative s.o.b.! Yeah, my points this morning and maybe more generally have been intended to draw divisions rather than find common ground. That's problematic.

                OK, let's define what "Right" and "Left" actually mean here.

                 

                That's what I am doing. I think that "right" means cynical about the public and government in general. "Left" means more positive about government and public forms of intervention. That's what they mean today anyways. Why get all conceptual about it, when we have a politics of gut reactions anyways? [Crap, that was me being cynical, uh oh.]

                Scout7


                CPT Curmudgeon

                  That's what I am doing. I think that "right" means cynical about the public and government in general. "Left" means more positive about government and public forms of intervention. That's what they mean today anyways. Why get all conceptual about it, when we have a politics of gut reactions anyways? [Crap, that was me being cynical, uh oh.]

                   

                  Because I have a degree in Political Science, so that's how I am comfortable with it.

                   

                  So I am correct in my belief that "Right" and "Left" have nothing to do with actual political beliefs at all.  Good to know.

                    So I am correct in my belief that "Right" and "Left" have nothing to do with actual political beliefs at all.  Good to know.

                     

                    Define: actual political beliefs.

                      This will sound ignorant but I have a hard time believing that most people are really either left or right.  It makes it frustrating when debates get framed this way.  I recognize that this is also likely a product of my own political laziness. 

                       

                      Call me ignorant but I agree and I don't think I'm particularly lazy when it comes to politics.

                       

                      I know everyone thinks they are middle of the road but I consider myself fairly moderate (okay fiscally conservative/socially liberal, as cliche as that is) have never belonged to a party and have voted for plenty of Dems and Repubs.

                       

                      The reason most reasonable people avoid discussing politics is that so often it is all a game to try and put you in either box so as to have rocks thrown at you.  Real example from a recent social gathering in my neighborhood involving two of the most politically ideological people I know: In a conversation with "Greg" (his real name), an anti-government right winger, I make the mistake of stating that I agree with the president on a certain issue and I'm immediately labeled a flaming liberal.  A few minutes later at the same party I have a similar conversation with "Priscilla" (her real name) a big time lefty, and in which I express an area where I am at odds with the president and am labeled an extreme conservative.  That's no fun and not really productive so I'll just stick to sports or something.

                       

                      As for dictatorship: Scout for Overlord!

                      Runners run.

                      Scout7


                      CPT Curmudgeon

                        What amuses me so much is that Conservatism believes in preserving institutions, of which government is one, yet so many "Conservatives" want to rip it all to shreds.  That's not Conservatism.

                          What amuses me so much is that Conservatism believes in preserving institutions, of which government is one, yet so many "Conservatives" want to rip it all to shreds.  That's not Conservatism.

                           

                          True. And liberalism is supposed to be about liberating people from oppressive institutions, yet so many want to add to the bureaucracies that are strangling us. That's not liberalism.

                            Economists have a polite way to call people “too dumb to know what’s good for ‘em”…the notion of bounded rationality (which they are careful to point out is not equal to lack of calculational ability). If you have the time, this is a nice paper on how/why we make political decisions, including party affiliation shortcuts:

                             

                            http://www.princeton.edu/~smeunier/JonesBounded1.pdf

                            Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                            We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes


                            MoBramExam

                              ...liberalism is supposed to be about liberating people from oppressive institutions...

                               

                              Isn't this also what true conservatism and true libertarianism is suppose to be about?

                               



                                sometimes it depends on what you are liberating...

                                 

                                In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

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