The Bible on The History Channel (Read 414 times)

    I bought my nephew an elephant for his room. He said, "Thanks". I said, "Don't mention it".

    zonykel


      I don't get the history channel any more, so I can comment on the show itself.

       

      but as an atheist (and former catholic who struggled with doubts for over 20 years), I find religion (overall) as something that doesn't make sense to me.

       

      Religions are man-made, but they claim divine input, so to speak. It makes me wonder, how did these prophets know they were conduits for their gods? If I started hearing voices in my head or had dreams that god was giving me a message to spread, I'd think I'm going crazy.

       

      if someone on the street starts telling you that god spoke to him and that you need to listen to their message, wouldn't you be skeptical about iT? What makes the message more believable thousands of years later?

       

      look, I'm not here to convince anyone to abandon their religion. You believe what you want to believe. Someone could turn blue in the face trying to convert you to another religion, and you probably won't feel any obligation to listen to them.

        It makes me wonder, how did these prophets know they were conduits for their gods? If I started hearing voices in my head or had dreams that god was giving me a message to spread, I'd think I'm going crazy.

         

        Zonykel

        I would imagine some of your questions were rhetorical but I'll respond to a couple of them.  For nearly all religions you are correct.   However, for Christianity, the events were not in peoples heads, the key events happened publicly for all to see.

         

        From 1 Corinthians

        ....For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third dayaccording to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.  Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,  and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born...

        ...and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

         

        As you can see, the early Christians (as modern ones should) staked EVERYTHING on the facts surrounding the Resurrection of Christ.  Again, whether you (or anyone) believes that is not up to me.

         

        Regards,

        Steve

        2012 Goals: 1:35-ish Half Mary ->(result 1:38:40).  Bust the sub 20 5k barrier (19:54!!!!) and whoop the 1000 mile bunny (ok, bunny, you win).

          It's true. The answer is aliens. God was wiping out all the nephilim and their halfbreed human offspring. He was effectually saving the human race from genocide by genetic pollution. You see god is sort of racist that way, he sort of prefers that the human race remains as it is.
          zonykel


            The problem is that you're not talking about first hand accounts of the events provided by impartial individuals. the first gospel was written decades after the facts. Even if I were to grant the resurrection as a fact, it really proves nothing regarding Jesus' deity status.

             

            Zonykel

            I would imagine some of your questions were rhetorical but I'll respond to a couple of them.  For nearly all religions you are correct.   However, for Christianity, the events were not in peoples heads, the key events happened publicly for all to see.

             

            From 1 Corinthians

            ....For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third dayaccording to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.  Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,  and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born...

            ...and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

             

            As you can see, the early Christians (as modern ones should) staked EVERYTHING on the facts surrounding the Resurrection of Christ.  Again, whether you (or anyone) believes that is not up to me.

             

            Regards,

            Steve

            jojo61397


              I watched it.  I liked it.  I find biblical history and archeology interesting-- since I love the Indian Jones series (except the last one-- they nuked the fridge on that one).  Anyway, it was pretty cool show.  I happened to like the angels, from what I know-- Gabriel is pretty Bad@ss.  Did you notice that the actor who played God is the same actor, who plays Jesus later on in the series.  But all in all, I liked it.  I also like pretty mindless action movies and am easily entertained Smile.

              Jodi

               

              PR:

              Half: 1:48 (March 3rd, 2013)

              Full: 4:05:40 (March 17th, 2013)

               

              2013/2014 Goals:

              Sub-4:00 hour Marathon

              Sub- 125 pounds
              Sub- 1:45 hour half.

              MrH


                 

                Creationists accept that the dinosaurs were destroyed by a meteor.

                 

                The process is the goal.

                Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

                Runslowalksalot


                  If I was raised catholic, I'd be an atheist too.  

                      Faith and salvation  is not about deeds and crackers,  but where one's heart lies.

                    religions are man made because what speaks to one man does little for another.    I think that it is a part of life and what it takes to make a person realize what a small cog they really are.      If a religion makes a person better for it, then go for it

                  jojo61397


                    Have you ever been a Catholic?  Do you know anything about the denomination?  I'm Catholic, I am very tolerant of other beliefs.  The ONLY thing that really bothers me is when someone makes derogatory comments about my religion based on the media.  Come to a Catholic mass, then make comments.

                     

                    FTR-- my faith is NOT about deeds and crackers, nor do we worship Mary and the Saints.

                     

                    If I was raised catholic, I'd be an atheist too.  

                        Faith and salvation  is not about deeds and crackers,  but where one's heart lies.

                      religions are man made because what speaks to one man does little for another.    I think that it is a part of life and what it takes to make a person realize what a small cog they really are.      If a religion makes a person better for it, then go for it

                    Jodi

                     

                    PR:

                    Half: 1:48 (March 3rd, 2013)

                    Full: 4:05:40 (March 17th, 2013)

                     

                    2013/2014 Goals:

                    Sub-4:00 hour Marathon

                    Sub- 125 pounds
                    Sub- 1:45 hour half.

                    zonykel


                      An individual being tolerant does not equate to the religion itself being tolerant. I would venture to guess most Catholics (as well as most Christians and other religions) are very tolerant of others, but that's not necessarily because of their religion.

                       

                      this may be perhaps regional, but Catholicism in Mexico is very heavy on the Virgin Mary and To a lesser extent saints.

                       

                      what I found from catholic mass was a very structured way of worshipping. If there is a god, does he care whether you sit, kneel, or stand?

                       

                      with regards to the crackers, catholic religion, in contrast with Protestant religions, considers that you're really eating the body of Christ. I think they call it Transubstantiation.

                       

                      Have you ever been a Catholic?  Do you know anything about the denomination?  I'm Catholic, I am very tolerant of other beliefs.  The ONLY thing that really bothers me is when someone makes derogatory comments about my religion based on the media.  Come to a Catholic mass, then make comments.

                       

                      FTR-- my faith is NOT about deeds and crackers, nor do we worship Mary and the Saints.

                       

                      jojo61397


                        Read the Vatican II, it actually is part of our doctrine to be tolerant of all denominations and religions.

                         

                        Again that's false about Mexico, Mary's only role in our religion is the same as the saints.  She intercedes on our behalf, because she's "closer" to God.  That does not mean we worship her.  Her role is the same through out the church.  Same with the saints.  Part of the reason for Mexico being "big into Mary" is that she has appeared several times in Mexico, but the doctrine in the church remains the same.  If someone is worshipping Mary over Jesus, then that is not Catholicism, and they are not following the doctrine of the church.

                         

                        It's structured per tradition.  Mass has been said the same for nearly 2000 years.  The only changes were made in Vatican I and Vatican II, changing the language to a Church's national language (from original Latin), and other minor shifts in what is said, but for the most part it's structure is tradition.  Some people like going to a church that is steeped in tradition, others not.  If it's not your gig, that's cool, but there is no reason to say, "well I would be an atheist too if I were raised Catholic."  I am a Catholic, I enjoy my religion.  I like the traditions.  The only thing I could do without is priests accused of sexual molestation and those molestations being covered up.  For every priest named, I can name several hundred priests that did not molest children.

                         

                        An individual being tolerant does not equate to the religion itself being tolerant. I would venture to guess most Catholics (as well as most Christians and other religions) are very tolerant of others, but that's not necessarily because of their religion.

                         

                        this may be perhaps regional, but Catholicism in Mexico is very heavy on the Virgin Mary and To a lesser extent saints.

                         

                        what I found from catholic mass was a very structured way of worshipping. If there is a god, does he care whether you sit, kneel, or stand?

                         

                        with regards to the crackers, catholic religion, in contrast with Protestant religions, considers that you're really eating the body of Christ. I think they call it Transubstantiation.

                         

                        Jodi

                         

                        PR:

                        Half: 1:48 (March 3rd, 2013)

                        Full: 4:05:40 (March 17th, 2013)

                         

                        2013/2014 Goals:

                        Sub-4:00 hour Marathon

                        Sub- 125 pounds
                        Sub- 1:45 hour half.

                          Summing it up for me, I still hold that there may be a "greater power", but I do not believe in God as written in the bible.   Again, skipping all the analogy of the texts and all other things one could talk about, here is an example of the most conflictual piece of it (tor me) that I simply cannot grasp:

                           

                          Most religious folks are pro-life and believe that all life is precious from inception, therefore once a baby is conceived in the womb, it should never be aborted.  (I understand this part).

                           

                          The part that I do not understand is if you read about the Noah's Ark events as written in the bible, an everloving God killed everything on earth, including innocent infants, toddlers, unborn babies in the womb!

                           

                          And there you have it.  That is a huge item I cannot comprehend.  It screams Contradiction loudly to me.    Using basic logic, I see no way around that conflict.  I see no justification on why a God, creator of all things, would kill all, including all infants and unborn children, and I see no reason why people who are pfo-life would pray to this very same God who did such.

                          .

                          The Plan (big parts)→  ///  March:  Shamrock Marathon  ///  April:  24 Hour Run for Cancer  ///   May:  3 Days at the Fair (12 Hour)  ///  Nov:  New York Marathon ∞


                          Fat butt on couch

                            Summing it up for me, I still hold that there may be a "greater power", but I do not believe in God as written in the bible.   Again, skipping all the analogy of the texts and all other things one could talk about, here is an example of the most conflictual piece of it (tor me) that I simply cannot grasp:

                             

                            Most religious folks are pro-life and believe that all life is precious from inception, therefore once a baby is conceived in the womb, it should never be aborted.  (I understand this part).

                             

                            The part that I do not understand is if you read about the Noah's Ark events as written in the bible, an everloving God killed everything on earth, including innocent infants, toddlers, unborn babies in the womb!

                             

                            And there you have it.  That is a huge item I cannot comprehend.  It screams Contradiction loudly to me.    Using basic logic, I see no way around that conflict.  I see no justification on why a God, creator of all things, would kill all, including all infants and unborn children, and I see no reason why people who are pfo-life would pray to this very same God who did such.

                            .

                            KL, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, you need to look up the concept of original sin.  Infants and the unborn may be free from personal sin, but they bear original sin derived from the fall because they are human.  They are not, as you contest, completely innocent.

                             

                            There is a difference between God deciding who should live or die, and a human deciding this.  Regarding his justification for taking such actions, I don't pretend God would need to justify his action to any human's inferior knowledge and logic.  I can't say I understand everything done in the Bible but no human is in a place to think they know better than God.

                             

                            You were given the free will to believe differently of course.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              --Understood... I suppose my largest hangup by far is that I do not feel that any unborn child has 'sinned' or is guilty of anything.  I cannot comprehend why a God who is called everloving would end the lives of the unborn in such a way.

                               

                              --So I'll leave it there.  Where I stand now is that I believe in the strong possibility of a greater power, but I consider the bible, (or the Koran, or the Book of Mormon, or the many other religious works and beliefs out there) humankinds way to 'try' and comprehend or relate to this 'higher power'.   Simply put, there are thousands of different religions out there (and all are free to practice their religion), but only one of these religions can be right out of the thousands. (or possibly 0 of them are right.  We really cannot know as humans of course).  100 men of 100 different religions all feel that they are 100% right, but we know this cannot be true.

                               

                              ---So from that, to look at it objectively, and from the much bigger picture... Looking at it from a viewpoint outside of any particular religion or belief, what I see is that Humankind as a species, as it evolves over millenia, gathers more ability to think much deeper than any other animal species about thess things---But all that has resulted is that we came up with thousands of different possibilities, by which we often further subdivide ourselves!

                               

                              Well back to the more christian part of the religious aspect... From where I stand, if there is a "higher power" and he is "everloving and forgiving", etc, then I should  be fine because I have always run a good course in life.  (excuse the pun Smile)  -- On the other hand, if it is the God of the Bible, then I suppose what Billy Graham says would apply to me about the fire and brimstone!   -- But I cannot believe, and I will not 'fake' that I believe.  I can never be accused of being a pretender as it were...

                              The Plan (big parts)→  ///  March:  Shamrock Marathon  ///  April:  24 Hour Run for Cancer  ///   May:  3 Days at the Fair (12 Hour)  ///  Nov:  New York Marathon ∞


                              Interval Junkie --Nobby

                                --Understood... I suppose my largest hangup by far is that I do not feel that any unborn child has 'sinned' or is guilty of anything.

                                 

                                I think is actually more a cultural mis-understanding, than anything you might think is about Justice.  Remember, the cultures in the Bible, and still  many cultures around the world, believe that the debts (moral, social and financial) of the father are inherited by the son.  This is actually not such a strange concept when you consider that the son benefits from inheriting at least the social and financial wealth of the father in US society.


                                The son's obligations with regard to the father's sin are no different than the obligations of financial debt.  Again, you only see this as a problem for moral justice (because the son did nothing wrong personally) because of cultural reasons.  Many cultures and the ones in the  bible are more family oriented than the USA -- and by that I mean that it means more who your family is, and this defines you and how your society relates to you.  Consider that the modern German resume has a section for your parents' occupation.

                                 

                                This is why the sons (and daughters) of Adam inherit their father's sin.

                                 

                                Once you accept this idea, you can see how no child is innocent of sin -- though may not have done anything personally wrong.

                                 

                                Do I agree with it?  No.  But I do understand it.

                                2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon ("Congrats! It's tough to race with poop in the mind" --Wing)

                                Current Status 03/17: Drinking beer and eating crap -- all the things I couldn't do before the marathon