Forums >Racing>Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon
I agree with Jim & the others, Dakota & John. You two have got 6 months of 60mpw behind you, that's a terrific base whether you are coming from 18 or 12 weeks out.
John, I did a slightly shorter and slightly easier version of your run today and found it pretty hard as well, it's gonna be a tiring few months that's for sure!!
Oh and Jim, is it possible you can amend my Berlin Marathon date to Sept 20th. I think I must have given you the wrong date before. Cheers!
Right on Hereford...
I wouldn't say this about a lot of runners at this stage, but I think both you guys will be just fine with a 12 week plan. You've got the base and your prep races times are where they need to be. You're probably good for a sub-3 right now.
Cool, thanks for the sanity check, Jim and everyone else. I wouldn't say I could go sub-3 right now (especially considering how my legs feel after today's run), but I suspect that you are right about my base and prep race times.
Now a question for all of you experienced marathoners...should I pick a training plan, or just put one together myself? If I go with a plan, what are the pros/cons of each one? If I make my own, what should I do?
That's kind of a personal decision. What have you done in the past? I'd say if you don't have some ideas rolling around in your head about what you should do, then maybe following a Pfitz or Daniels type formula could have its benefits. You'll see a lot more similarities than differences between most of the serious plans so the pros/cons are going to be more about what you like. Whatever you do if you follow a plan, read the whole book first don't just flip to the back and follow the schedules.
Personally every time I've trained for a marathon I've sort of instinctively known what I wanted to do for the next one, so I haven't really followed a cookie cutter training plan for a marathon since probably 2002.
Runners run
That's kind of a personal decision. What have you done in the past? I'd say if you don't have some ideas rolling around in your head about what you should do, then maybe following a Pfitz or Daniels type formula could have its benefits. You'll see a lot more similarities than differences between most of the serious plans so the pros/cons are going to be more about what you like. Whatever you do if you follow a plan, read the whole book first don't just flip to the back and follow the schedules. Personally every time I've trained for a marathon I've sort of instinctively known what I wanted to do for the next one, so I haven't really followed a cookie cutter training plan for a marathon since probably 2002.
Here's what I did in the past...I followed Hal Higdon Novice 1 (4 days per week, 100% easy miles, peaking at 40 mpw). That was my first and only marathon.
I'm thinking that a cookie cutter plan may still be a good idea for me, since I have barely any marathon experience. Feel free to chip in about which plans you guys prefer, and why. Otherwise I guess I'll order Pfitz on Amazon or something.
Well I'm probably the least experienced marathoner here (zero and counting) but I had this exact same question a couple of months back. Up until that point I had not followed any plan but had read quite widely (Daniels, Pfitzinger, Noakes etc) and used the generally accepted wisdom to put together an individual plan. As I came to the point where I wanted to plot out my schedule leading up a Fall marathon this year I knew a lot of the components I wanted in it but arranging them all together in the optimum fashion and then arranging this to peak on a specific date was something that seemed a bit more tricky. At this point it was easier to look at the various plans to see if one fit the bill. Pfitzinger 70-85/18 was very close to having all the components I wanted and seemed flexible enough to accomodate some specific changes I wanted.
So the question for me answered itself - I used a plan when it became easier to do so and I used the plan that was closest to what I had arrived at by previously constructing my own plans.
John
Following up on the recent questions about training plans I just wondered what people thought about 3-5k paced intervals for the marathon.
At the moment my rough plans are by week:
4 x EZ runs. A couple of which will include 3-5k paced striders.
1 x mid/long run with 10k or half paced intervals building up to 16-18 miles depending on the amount of quality involved.
1 long run with marathon pace elements (MP on/off miles, MP finish etc) building to 20-22 miles.
But I see some marathon training plans include some 3-5k intervals, do you think it's worth including any? Or is it just too far away from what's important to be marathon ready?
My plan has a sprinkling of 200’s at 3k pace, but nothing close a full workout at that intensity level. However, there are several short races.
Wednesdays :
AM – 12 miles including 8 x 1 mile at MP with 1 min recovery jogs, or 4 x 2 miles with 2 min recoveries, then 4-5 x 200 at 3k effort
PM – 5 miles easy
Weekends:
Short Saturday race, followed by 16-18 easy miles on Sunday…OR on raceless weekends...
Long single that includes some quality; e.g. progressive, segments at M pace, etc.
Race tab inlcudes an 8k, 10k, and 10 miler. All the rest are short club races, between 2.8 and 4.7 miles; mostly on hills--9 total. The 10-miler is key prep, 3 weeks before marathon. Others are “train through”
Long run tab inlcudes 6 x’s 18, 3 x’s 20, and one each at 21, 22, 23.
My plan has a sprinkling of 200’s at 3k pace, but nothing close a full workout at that intensity level. However, there are several short races. Wednesdays : AM – 12 miles including 8 x 1 mile at MP with 1 min recovery jogs, or 4 x 2 miles with 2 min recoveries, then 4-5 x 200 at 3k effort PM – 5 miles easy Weekends: Short Saturday race, followed by 16-18 easy miles on Sunday…OR on raceless weekends... Long single that includes some quality; e.g. progressive, segments at M pace, etc. Race tab inlcudes an 8k, 10k, and 10 miler. All the rest are short club races, between 2.8 and 4.7 miles; mostly on hills--9 total. The 10-miler is key prep, 3 weeks before marathon. Others are “train through” Long run tab inlcudes 6 x’s 18, 3 x’s 20, and one each at 21, 22, 23.
Thanks Jim, that's helpful. Wow! You are doing quite a few races between now and your Marathon. I'm probably only doing a few (the key one being a 10k 5 weeks out). I may think about throwing some kind of 3-5k work in every couple of weeks then.
Does anyone else have a take on this? I might stalk a few logs to see what the graduates did before theirs....
My training is not all that different from Jim's. I do hardly anything at 3k-5k pace except for strides and maybe a few 200s at the end of a workout. I try to do strides 2x per week, usually on Tuesdays and Fridays and sometimes I'll substitute one of those with 10 second hill charges.
I do my big midweek workout on Wednesdays--usually 11 to 14 miles total with 4 - 6 miles worth of "work" at somewhere between 10k and marathon pace. A typical workout might be 6 x 1000m at ~10k with 4 x 200m after with lots of warmup and cooldown.
I do another big run on Sundays -- ususall 2-2.5 hours with some kind of long intervals, a progression run or just run over big hills.
The other days are generally just 60-70 minute easy runs.
I don't do as many really long runs as most people--mostly due to time constraints. I think I had a grand total of 3 runs longer than 18 miles before Boston and only one of those was over 20 (and just barely.) I do however hammer the hell out of some of my long runs. One of those runs that was over 18 was 19+ starting with lots of big hills and finishing with 6 miles flat around a lake at MP working down to HMP. I had a couple of 17 milers with 6-8 at MP. I also raced a half marathon, which I think is about the best workout there is for a marathon.
My training is not all that different from Jim's. I do hardly anything at 3k-5k pace except for strides and maybe a few 200s at the end of a workout. I try to do strides 2x per week, usually on Tuesdays and Fridays and sometimes I'll substitute one of those with 10 second hill charges. I do my big midweek workout on Wednesdays--usually 11 to 14 miles total with 4 - 6 miles worth of "work" at somewhere between 10k and marathon pace. A typical workout might be 6 x 1000m at ~10k with 4 x 200m after with lots of warmup and cooldown. I do another big run on Sundays -- ususall 2-2.5 hours with some kind of long intervals, a progression run or just run over big hills. The other days are generally just 60-70 minute easy runs. I don't do as many really long runs as most people--mostly due to time constraints. I think I had a grand total of 3 runs longer than 18 miles before Boston and only one of those was over 20 (and just barely.) I do however hammer the hell out of some of my long runs. One of those runs that was over 18 was 19+ starting with lots of big hills and finishing with 6 miles flat around a lake at MP working down to HMP. I had a couple of 17 milers with 6-8 at MP. I also raced a half marathon, which I think is about the best workout there is for a marathon.
Thanks mikey - good stuff. That's pretty much the approach I'm looking to go with.
Unfortunately I'm struggling to find a convenient half in the build up so I may have to settle for a 10k, which is a shame.