McMillian Calculator (Read 335 times)

 

I train specifically with the goal of getting better at marathons; this gets me better at 5k's as a result. Some of the smarter folks here have said training for the two distances is pretty similar anyway until the last x weeks before the race. (I don't recall what x is, you can see here how much attention I have been paying.) I assume that continuing to improve my marathon will continue to improve my 5k, so I am skeptical as to whether I will ever match up to the McMillan formula. Which is fine.

I understand. I've had the idea in my head for a while from this. And I think ultimately I'll just have more success at shorter distances. I don't want to detract from the OP so I'll leave it at that.

It's funny, I'd forgotten about the slate calculator - even tho it is clearly bookmarked in my browser. Believe last year it was one of the calculators I used to pick my CIM (California International Marathon) pace group last year.  IIRC it roughly predicted a 3:35 based on 10K and 1/2 marathon time. Now, I went back and re-calculated using 2 different 1/2 marathons - one spit out 3:42 and the other 3:35.  Main difference between the 2 1/2's I used was course description. Anyway, last year was fairly accurate, within 45 seconds or so.  This year split the difference between the predicted times - so not too bad.

On another note, last year ran my over 50 5k PR day before CIM. Definitely didn't do any 5K specific training for CIM.

 

I train specifically with the goal of getting better at marathons; this gets me better at 5k's as a result. Some of the smarter folks here have said training for the two distances is pretty similar anyway until the last x weeks before the race. (I don't recall what x is, you can see here how much attention I have been paying.) I assume that continuing to improve my marathon will continue to improve my 5k, so I am skeptical as to whether I will ever match up to the McMillan formula. Which is fine.

Funny how that works, isn't it?  I was stuck at a 15:37 5K PR for years…I literally ran two dozen 15:37-15:40 on wildly different training approaches…before I crushed it with a 15:38-15:18 10K splits (hinting ~14:50 5K potential) off pure marathon training.

Of course those with real mid-distance talent challenge that notion, there are lots of world-class 5K runners who never really top 80 mpw and never run 15+ mile training runs (according to what is reported anyways).

I do think most people would benefit most by a marathon-type plan up front…forcing them into volume…followed by a good 1-2 month sharpening period focused on fast-twitch and speed, if 5K is the goal.

  Should I aim for a BQ (which seems doable) or go for what Mcmillian says is possible?

 

 

The bottom line is that I run regularly, but not high mileage, and I won't be putting in 50 mile weeks in training.  Realistically, I'll put in weeks that range between 35-45.  I'll do whatever speed work my plan will call for.  Oh yes.  I

Disclaimer:  I have never run a marathon or trained for one, but this may be a good predictor of what you are capable of (or not):

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/yasso-800s

 

Yes I have seen that one; my comment in fact came from this. I ran 3 marathons & 3 HMs before I tried a 5k or 10k. So it was surprising that I was comparatively better at the shorter distances, but I suppose it shouldn't have been. I am tempted to just give up on marathons because they suck, I suck at them, and they suck. But it's the great white whale, so I will probably keep at it till I get a good one in. (Which will then probably make me want to do more.)

 

And there's nothing wrong with a healthy thread derailing.

Jeff's got some 'splaining to do. I guess I'm working on the marathon to have an excuse to build volume and get faster at the shorter distances. Different goals maybe. (I can't imagine running a ton of marathons. Takes so much damn TIME). Oh, and yes, the white whale. I'd like to have a respectable marathon time but I fear that I don't even know what I would consider to be respectable. Probably anything faster than what I am doing.

5k training and marathon training are much more similar than they are different, due to the simple fact that the training is fundamentally not about distance, but about getting the human body really fit.

The best way to get a human body really fit for running is to run as much as you can squeeze into life, with all of its stresses, commitments, etc. If you are pretty low stress, and have time and some sort of running background then we're talking 10+ hours of running per week for everyone, for every distance from the mile up.

After that (which by the way, most people never sustain over any period of time unless they are nutty and just love running more than most) it's all details and individual differences and what floats your boat, which we diminish because our idiosyncrasies are embarrassing. But these idiosyncrasies really are important because being 95% committed to the training that feeds you is much better than being 60% committed to the training that "makes the most sense" for some ideal runner in some ideal life that, let's face it, none of us are living.

For the better part of my running career I ran 12 easy miles every Monday. Why? Because my two best running buddies ran 12 miles every Monday, and it was enjoyable. That run set up the rest of my week of training; a sort of anchor point around which the rest orbited in different ways in different seasons. Anchor your running in a couple of runs/workouts/people you really love, which will sustain you week to week. Then mix around the rest.

Jeff's back, everyone.

He's just getting warmed up.

5k training and marathon training are much more similar than they are different, due to the simple fact that the training is fundamentally not about distance, but about getting the human body really fit.

 

The best way to get a human body really fit for running is to run as much as you can squeeze into life, with all of its stresses, commitments, etc. If you are pretty low stress, and have time and some sort of running background then we're talking 10+ hours of running per week for everyone, for every distance from the mile up.

 

After that (which by the way, most people never sustain over any period of time unless they are nutty and just love running more than most) it's all details and individual differences and what floats your boat, which we diminish because our idiosyncrasies are embarrassing. But these idiosyncrasies really are important because being 95% committed to the training that feeds you is much better than being 60% committed to the training that "makes the most sense" for some ideal runner in some ideal life that, let's face it, none of us are living.

 

For the better part of my running career I ran 12 easy miles every Monday. Why? Because my two best running buddies ran 12 miles every Monday, and it was enjoyable. That run set up the rest of my week of training; a sort of anchor point around which the rest orbited in different ways in different seasons. Anchor your running in a couple of runs/workouts/people you really love, which will sustain you week to week. Then mix around the rest.

For how long would one want to sustain 10 hours a week? I am guessing you will probably tell me as long as you can. (And just to be clear, when I said that marathon training takes too much time, I meant in more of the psychological, emotional investment over a long period of time sort of sense rather than time spent running. Not that you were asking for clarification.) I have recently been getting that feeling for what you are saying in that last paragraph there with anchoring onto a tempo run (so fun!) and long run (sometimes with a friend) each week but it seems more solid with you putting it that way. More important. Thanks, that's something to hold onto.