2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 582 times)

 

Also, I did a workout like that once. Once. Husdon has some stuff with shorter periods of fast running that might be more suitable for people who don;t want to get hurt.

Hudson killed me. I went from rough Pfitz, to a failed Hudson, to being a proud WTF-er. Sometimes it seems like if you stick to the spirit of your plan, reading between the lines of intent, you get a majority of the benefit of the plan/workout without getting worn down or hurt. But that's the WTF attitude.

 

This is exactly my point! It's odd to me when someone is "training to BQ". Like yes, maybe you want to hit that benchmark, but exactly what you said - if your training and race were what you want, let the chips fall to as fast as they may.

"Training to BQ" is exactly my mindset...but maybe I can give you the context to have it make sense.

So, I was a runner in high school, but I wasn't passionate about it. It was just a sport I could do. I was passionate about basketball, but I wasn't good enough to make the team at a school that had one future NBA player and perennially contended for the state championship.

So I ran, and I was OK at it - good enough to make varsity and run some decent PRs. I had friends on the team and I had fun, but I didn't really enjoy going out for a long run, or anything. I just still freaking loved basketball! I'd often play pickup games after XC or track practice.

After that... I didn't really run for fitness or fun for about 17 years. I played a BOATLOAD of basketball. Ultimately, I ended up getting good at it, and I played in competitive city leagues for years. I'm almost prouder of my bball accomplishments than anything I've done in running - an undefeated season where I averaged around 25 ppg, career high of 37 points (on zero free throws!), a 27-point first half, dunking, etc...

When I hit my early 30s, and my older son was born, I found that I didn't have time for basketball - you can't just show up and get a good workout. There have to be the right amount of people (not too few, not too many), and sometimes I got unlucky and didn't get any run. And I was getting hurt a lot. I've had three fairly severe ankle sprains. I fractured a collarbone. I had countless little bruises and nagging injuries. And after reading Born to Run (don't laugh), I decided to give the whole "running for fun" thing a try.

After one early setback (partially torn ACL/MCL/Gastroc from a wake surfing incident), I trained for 6 months and ran my first marathon. I wanted sub-4, and I gutted out a 3:59:51 with an excruciating 1:49/2:10 split.

After the pain from that faded, I decided that running Boston would be a good goal. And that's what I've been training for since. My PR is 3:22, but breaking 3:20 means nothing to me. Running 3:15 means nothing to me. Getting the arbitrary standard (sub 3:15 for my age, but really 3:10 for a usable BQ) is the only thing I care about in terms of marathon running. I don't even care about running well at Boston - I plan on running the race as a victory lap.

That's not to say that I'll BQ and quit the sport. But I may never run another marathon "for time" again. I have unfinished business in the mile, 5k, and 10k, and I'll focus on those goals instead. I even want to do a 50-miler "for fun." Oh god, it's probably Max's influence...

Sorry for the wall of text/life story, but I am most definitely "training to BQ," and have been doing so for years!

Brew: I realized I've created a monster.  I mention a race, and you practically start drooling thinking that you can score free beer by showing up.

 

You DO realize I'm FULLY aware you'll be going up and down hills carrying your own supplies for probaly half of a day and I'm willing to come along, right?

Max "I'm doing this run (hellaciously long uphill climb on rocks and single track) near you this weekend"

Brew "DUDE! Why didn't you tell me earlier (I hate trails, hills, dirt, rocks, carrying water, trekking poles, running in heat, and pretty much every single thing about your race) I could have come down and hung out."

Max "You just want free beer don't you?"

Brew "I mean...if you happen to bring some I won't tell you no."

This guy...claiming he made a "free beer" monster...the nerve. He doesn't even bring me Coors Light.

rlk re "training to BQ" I'd say becomes the goal. Some people do it faster than others. I started with "4:00 marathon" which is a hard cut off and having never done a marathon before I didn't know how hard it was to do. I just heard it was a thing. Next was 3:30 for no reason other than it was actually my first goal. It THEN became to BQ (actually it's to get into the 4/20/20 marathon as I'm sure you're aware) and I don't doubt it would be a sub-3. So I guess it varies for everyone. Do people say "I want to run a sub XX 5K" do it then quit racing?

Ace I'm running Chicago along with flyrunnr and I think arvind. As for all the goals, all I can say is you can do all that it just takes time. You can do CIM one year since it isn't cheap to travel West with a family. If you make a vacation out of it ask around for travel plans (visiting Yosemite in December won't happen. Driving to Disneyland takes 7.5 hours, etc.) and you'll get some good info. Running a trail half or full marathon depends on where you want to go. If you have some around town you might be able to train for a spring/summer trail race and a Fall marathon. It just depends what the goal is. Do you want to run the race to say you've done it or do you want to win the overall?  If you're training for a 50k+ trail race you'll do PLENTY of 13 mile runs in the hills so it might be a good idea to stack those two together, stack running marathons in other states (expensive) and maybe do some local races with the wife and see if she even wants to do a half. My wife kind of got into "racing" (mostly against herself) because she went to races with me all the time. She did a 1:00 10K and was very happy with that. She doesn't like running and said multiple times she wouldn't do a half. I don't expect her to. Maybe you could do a trail half in spring, ultra in summer and CIM in December. It just depends what the goals are and what's available. Looks like Fall Creek and Music City have trail offerings, and the Pistol Ultra is a road offering you could do early in the year. Dry Creek seems early enough to race if you're training for the other ultras and either treat it as a supported long run or race it and see how you feel going into the other races. My ultra goal became "finish so I can brag about how awesome my 7.5 hour day in the hills was."

arvind I've started with a Garmin plan. I think I did a Pfitz training plan for CIM 2015. After that I picked up Hansons. I'd say read into some of the more popular plans (daniels, Hansons, Pfitz) and see which works for your schedule. Ask questions about it, comment on speed work or longer marathon paced/effort runs and absorb the advice. Heck, look at how much people commented about rlks 2x200x2x200 workout and her friends going to fast and ruining it. People here can offer advice of what the point of the workout is so you don't lose focus while also offereing advice about longer runs or easy paced runs.

Chicago training I think I'm leaning towards the 2Q workout. I'd probably do Sundays and Wednesdays for the quality workouts. Thursday my MIL comes over sometimes to watch NeRP so MAYBE I could do Q workout that day. The hard part will be training while camping so maybe some workouts will be moved and "run for the lesser of" will be the Sunday workout that weekend. It's similar to Hansons knowing it's all easy miles and 2 work days. The biggest downer is I can get the Hanson's speed workouts done at work. I really cant get 16 miles of workout done in an hour. I wish I could. This is the biggest difference I see between the two. I could get every 8-9 mile run for Hanson's in during lunch Tuesday and Thursday. With Daniels I can't. Which makes me want to go towards Hanson's every time I look at it. I know Hanson's says to start adding miles to warm ups, then easy runs THEN the long run. I could get 8 mile loops done daily at work on lunch too. DW is on board for me running after work as needed (longer threshold type runs, etc) as usual unless I turn Chicago into a fun run. This is probably the one time I've gone back and forth so much. Oh and I have a 5-6 person relay the first weekend in June which should be good for my weekly miles. I'm already at 20 this week!

Somehow I skipped an entire page and missed the goal time / BQ posts.

SC - I enjoyed your background and goal evolution post. I'll share too, so feel free to scroll past if anyone doesn't care. But first I'll admit I'm on DW's TURD watch list. My participant vs lurker see-saw tilts toward the lurker side a bit.

Funny thing about the BQ benchmark - it's amazing how one race can affect so many people's goals. They bumped it down by 5 minutes for 2012 (I think?) and it filled up. If they do it again will everyone just run faster still? I don't feel I've been obsessed with the BQ time, but am always aware of that standard and talk about it with running buddies. It's probably a good thing that it exists to give people something to aim for. Otherwise we might all be simply trying to beat the national average or Oprah.

My first marathon was just getting into running and let's try 26.2. I felt 3:30 was possible and ran a 3:32 (loosely using a Higdon plan).

Then I met some running buddies and got more serious. I learned about BQ times and saw mine was 3:15, so I went for it. I had no intention to go to Massachusetts. I ran 3:15:13 (FIRST plan). This was 2010 and they still had the +59 seconds grace. I didn't realize that the time was based on your age on Patriot's Day of the year you would run. I actually needed a 3:20. But then they dropped it by five minutes and I was back to 3:15 for the next 5 years.

In 2011, I got delusions of grandeur and my running buddy and I trained for a sub-3 using Higdon's Advanced 2 plan. I was on pace through about mile 17/18, then struggled to a 3:11 finish.

Two years later I did a "WTF" plan with a 3:10ish goal. For the first time I felt strong through all 26.2 miles and ran a 3:12. The next year I didn't train for a full but helped pace one for a 3:24. I was still not trying to go to the Super Bowl of Marathons.

Then the delusions came back. I started lurking on the RWOL sub-3 forum and even the 2:50 (or whatever it was) forum. I quickly learned that more miles was the norm there and many of them used Pfitz. Sub-3 guys seemed to mostly be running 65-80mpw and the 2:50 guys were at 85-100+. About 11 months before the marathon I tried running 10 miles a day for about 10 straight days during a Christmas/New Year's vacation. I then formed a plan to train for a 39:00 10k and a 1:25 half before beginning another sub-3 training cycle (got 39:02 and 1:25:23, both PRs).

After those I kept up a base by sampling some of the Pfitz 18/70 plan and trying different tempo workouts. Then I gave myself a bit of a cutback and started the training in earnest. During the training, I ran two more half-marathon PRs (1:24:52 & 1:23:32) and was feeling confident. In Charlotte, November 2015, I ran a 2:58:46. At this point I would be aging up before Patriot's Day and this was 21 minutes under my BQ time.

Two running buddies also ran well at the same race and BQ'd (one for the first time) so we all three went. I had low motivation, a less than ideal training cycle, and a hot trip from Hopkinton (2017). I spent 3 hours and 50 minutes on that course. An epic personal worst!

Since then the motivation to train at the level I did for a sub-3 has been low. I kinda did last winter, and kinda tried. But my 1:32 first half turned into a 3:20 finish. Being older helps though as this is a -4:50 BQ. I'm not planning on going back, but a running buddy is starting the peer pressure thing.

The 4:30am alarm (and sometimes earlier) is rough week after week, month after month. I've been on a bit of a break recently, but still running ~40mpw. Honestly not sure what to do with myself. A PR would be nice, but sounds like more work than I have the motivation for. Some local friends are wanting to get a safe BQ (3:05ish) this fall, and hinting for me to go for it with them. That makes it a little more interesting, but ugh.

 Also it annoys me that you use the term "junk." If you're running easy for a purpose (building base) it's not junk.

 

I might be a little cranky today, sorry.

And stay off my lawn.

FB - Hudson killed you? Aren't you the same guy who used to train by running like 15 miles up a mountain every day?

FB - Hudson killed you? Aren't you the same guy who used to train by running like 15 miles up a mountain every day?

...and 100 junkmiles/wk running and another 100 junkers/wk on the bike.   Sadly, he only got up to AG83% marathoning.  Too much junk.