Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Cobra Commander Keen
Brew - I definitely remember that advice - not to mention that run and the song. I'm not too worried about it, just a bit bummed. I doubt I'll even try to make up the missed mileage, but I should be able to come back with a strong week next week. I'd love to be able to really do the DWave "run by feel thing", but at this point I just don't have the experience necessary to pull that off. I do make it a point to run through both mats - the main timing system just didn't pick anything up. When I went to check my time it was as if I DNSd. That same thing has happened to me a couple other times with this company, along with seeing names/bib numbers/times switched between numerous people and them missing the first 7 or 8 laps of the 6 hour race I did last summer. SHM.
Ace - Those MP miles at the end of a 20 would certainly be tough in any conditions. Speedy miles before the end, too. I've chosen company over comfort for a couple long runs recently as well. Good luck in the HM this weekend.
DWave - I've started coming around to that same thought regarding LR pace/effort this year.
This week is turning into a complete bust. DD3 woke up with tummy troubles just as I was about to head out this morning and I stayed with her so DW could sleep in. I'm hoping to try getting in my tempo done on the treadmill during lunch, though I won't be able to get many more extra miles in, if any. Maybe I can find a way to rig a fan to blow on me for a bit of a cooling effect...
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Mother of Cats
I'd love to be able to really do the DWave "run by feel thing", but at this point I just don't have the experience necessary to pull that off.
It honestly just takes practice. You just go out and do it, and it very quickly becomes natural. Like riding a bike or doing flip turns. You learn by doing it, and there's no minimum level of experience that you need before trying it.
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9 "miles" pool-running and upper body weights/core.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Hi everyone! Been forever since I've been on any of the threads here lately, and even longer on this thread. I've tried to read back a few pages but it's hard to reply to it all so I'm limiting my comments to the posts or comments on this page
Ace - Looks like you had a decent 20-miler as well (see mine below). I fueled at mile 5, 10, and 15, and did some very quick stops for water where I could. I was at 8:24 pace the first 17 miles though.
CK - You've had some monster weeks leading up to this one so I would not worry one bit about this week being short. Hope DD3 is feeling better.
DW - I'm so bad at running by feel it's almost laughable. Although I felt like I settled in nicely at my "hopeful" m-pace yesterday (but with my watch yelling at me if I was going more than 5 seconds per mile off pace). When I race a half or full marathon I keep an eye at both pace and HR since I know pretty well where my HR needs to be at different parts of the race for the pace to be sustainable.
In any case, I think this is about what I've done since last time I checked in here:
- Ran a very sub-optimal HM August 4. Followed my pacing plan so I'm not sure what happened apart from warm-ish temperatures, an increasing headwind on the back part of the out and back course (lots of other people struggled on the back part according to Strava), and pretty much nobody else running around me from mile 2 or so until mile 10 or 11. 1:34:44 and 7 seconds behind my PR from the same course in February this year. I think I will keep my original goal for that race for my HM coming up in 10 days.
- Went on vacation to Norway with the family and got some sort of hamstring issue out of the trip (and possibly the HM and an interval workout 3 days later on the same day as our flight there). Lower than hoped for mileage but only missed one workout. Lot of pictures from the runs on Strava for those who follow me there.
- Really struggled with my running after returning home and I was secretly questioning my training plan for a couple of weeks. That was until my 20-miler on Saturday where I sped up mile 18 and 19 on a whim to 7:20 (going slightly uphill) and 7:06, and a M and T-pace workout yesterday where everything seemed to work well.
I'm also running the Giants Race HM this weekend in San Francisco, but not as an all out effort. I have 14 miles at m-pace on the program so I figured I would shell out some money to have company on the run, practice running among lots of people, and practice fueling and drinking in those conditions. Targeting a pace of 7:20-25 for the race and if I feel good at the end I can speed up for a mile or two to make up for the one mile I'll be short compared to my workout. I'm hopeful (maybe overly so) that I can keep a 7:25 pace in Amsterdam in October. My hamstring (or tendon at the top) feels more sore than usual today to I think I will take a rest/stretch/foam roll day today.
For those who are interested, here are my workouts for last week:
Weekly SummaryMonday, Aug 27, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 02, 2018
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Strict WTF adherent
Attempts flip turn
Drowns
keen email you coach about a workout. 2E + 8M + 2 X (2T, 2 MIN E) + 2E and ask them if it's correct. Seriously...marathon paced miles then pretty much10K effort? TWICE?!!?!
Just read back a bit more and saw this. I had the slightly easier variation yesterday, 3x1T after 8 miles at M. Reading your comments about how the workout went for you makes me think I must have had a particularly good day yesterday. Maybe it means I'm due for a bad workout again this weekend
DW - Here is the advice our coach sent out for the 5th ave mile:
FIFTH AVENUE MILE COURSE: 0--400m slight downhill 400--800m slight uphill
800--1200m very slight downhill 1200--1600m very slight downhill
Because the 1st 400m is DOWNHILL, you must be careful not go out too fast. Better to go out too slow for the 1st 400m, than too fast. Inexperienced runners will go out like rabbits, don't get sucked in! You know your mile pace. Stick to it for the 1st 400m. OVERALL STRATEGY: 0--400m Get out, RELAX, let the rabbits go! Run your own race for the 1st 400m. (Don't worry about your position, it's the same distance from the middle of the road or the side of the road). 400--800m Now it's time to work.ATTACK the hill! Start looking at your competition. 800--1200m Forget the clock, it's time to compete! COMPETE, COMPETE, COMPETE! Start picking off runners one by one! Every runner counts. 1200--1600m Find another gear by competing. Remember those hill repeats & 400s & fast strides you have been doing? Go after that runner in front of you! Don't stop before the finish line---Run "through the line" (i.e., pretend the finish line is 10 meters farther) Frequently Asked Question: What should I do if I run the 1st 400m too fast? Do NOT slow down (slowing down doesn't work in the mile) You've committed yourself to that pace, stick to it. Don't panic. You still may run a PR. Don't fight the pain --- Run through it. Only way to run through the pain is to compete, compete, compete.
NOTE: If you see the clock at the 400m or 800m mark, you are not running that time. You are actually running a few seconds slower. That's because you are seeing the clock BEFORE you actually cross the 400m or 800m mark. So, in other words, IGNORE the clock. If you can, don't look at the clock and focus on your competition.
Problem Child
Similar course (I believe) for me. It's a slight uphill to the turn around point if its the finishing mile for our local marathon. Judging by the turn around point it is. I'll have to remember to start slower because a mile doesn't seem to leave much room for adjusting speed. The second half just seems like "hang on, keep racing, it's over soon, so just keep going."
DW - Here is the advice our coach sent out for the 5th ave mile: FIFTH AVENUE MILE COURSE: 0--400m slight downhill 400--800m slight uphill 800--1200m very slight downhill 1200--1600m very slight downhill Because the 1st 400m is DOWNHILL, you must be careful not go out too fast. Better to go out too slow for the 1st 400m, than too fast. Inexperienced runners will go out like rabbits, don't get sucked in! You know your mile pace. Stick to it for the 1st 400m. OVERALL STRATEGY: 0--400m Get out, RELAX, let the rabbits go! Run your own race for the 1st 400m. (Don't worry about your position, it's the same distance from the middle of the road or the side of the road). 400--800m Now it's time to work.ATTACK the hill! Start looking at your competition. 800--1200m Forget the clock, it's time to compete! COMPETE, COMPETE, COMPETE! Start picking off runners one by one! Every runner counts. 1200--1600m Find another gear by competing. Remember those hill repeats & 400s & fast strides you have been doing? Go after that runner in front of you! Don't stop before the finish line---Run "through the line" (i.e., pretend the finish line is 10 meters farther) Frequently Asked Question: What should I do if I run the 1st 400m too fast? Do NOT slow down (slowing down doesn't work in the mile) You've committed yourself to that pace, stick to it. Don't panic. You still may run a PR. Don't fight the pain --- Run through it. Only way to run through the pain is to compete, compete, compete. NOTE: If you see the clock at the 400m or 800m mark, you are not running that time. You are actually running a few seconds slower. That's because you are seeing the clock BEFORE you actually cross the 400m or 800m mark. So, in other words, IGNORE the clock. If you can, don't look at the clock and focus on your competition.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Brew - I definitely remember that advice - not to mention that run and the song. I'm not too worried about it, just a bit bummed. I doubt I'll even try to make up the missed mileage, but I should be able to come back with a strong week next week. I'd love to be able to really do the DWave "run by feel thing", but at this point I just don't have the experience necessary to pull that off. This week is turning into a complete bust. DD3 woke up with tummy troubles just as I was about to head out this morning and I stayed with her so DW could sleep in. I'm hoping to try getting in my tempo done on the treadmill during lunch, though I won't be able to get many more extra miles in, if any. Maybe I can find a way to rig a fan to blow on me for a bit of a cooling effect...
Brew - I definitely remember that advice - not to mention that run and the song. I'm not too worried about it, just a bit bummed. I doubt I'll even try to make up the missed mileage, but I should be able to come back with a strong week next week. I'd love to be able to really do the DWave "run by feel thing", but at this point I just don't have the experience necessary to pull that off.
I'm currently in this slump and it sucks. While it was fun to play with NeRP last night I kind of wanted to get SOME kind of run in. How is the 2-2 breathing going for easy runs? For me it takes a few minutes until it seems natural. Doing it with a low heart rate seems like I'm more focused on breathing than running. Oh and do like jmac said and just have total time for your easy runs, run by feel, and see how you do. I do OKAY with it for a while. Sometimes it depends on my mood but again, you get adjusted to it. Sucks about DD3. Looks like you got the run in. NeRP pushed through tooth 5 and SO FAR they aren't the cliche "teething baby" I expected. I'd rather be lucky than good. DDW feeling better? Oh and remember dwave does like a 9:00 easy run pace. Ever tried doing that for 8 miles?
rune I've considered doing those races. I just wish they'd show the three bagger award a little earlier than AFTER the first or second race. The one they had with all three rings on it would have looked cool at my Step-Fathers (in home) bar. He's a baseball fan. Me not so much. Oh and see my notes to keen on the training cycle. I'm currently in a slump of not even wanting to run and my race is literally a month away.
There is a spreadsheet I have saying based on my 10K (42:11) from May I could somehow do a sub 6 mile. Sooooo...90 second 400s. I guess I could use that information.
Brew - 2-2 just feels too fast for an easy run to me. 4-4(ish) feels much more natural. I'm still doing 2-2 for T and faster, 3-3 has been fine for M pace so far. I say "so far" since I've only done that once and my LR with M pace this weekend is with the faster pace after a VDOT bump. That bump will give me a golden opportunity to steal a Strava CR around a local lake, though!I should have been a bit more specific about running by feel - T and slower I can do pretty well by feel since I have a lot of experience with those compared to 10k pace and faster, which are harder for me to run by feel.
DD3 is much better, and finished cutting tooth #3 last week. #4 might also be on its way. Some kiddos have a tough time with teething, others don't.
Go for sub 6! I'm pretty certain your head would be the only thing keeping you from getting that. You've done a ton of work since that 10k. And a race environment provides quite the boost compared to solo workouts.
My motivation took a hit this week as well with the issues that kept me from running. Getting in that workout after work yesterday helped, and I'm going to try using that toward doing a big LR this weekend and trying to reset and really get back in to it next week.
TAHOE 200 IS LIVE! I hope no one has an axe. Jamil, Cameron Hanes, and Catra are all doing it. I'm a little tempted to try and catch them around Spooner Summit (where max almost lost all trust in me) and take some photos, offer some verbal encouragement, and absorb the awesomeoness that is Tahoe. Yes I'm slightly biased to this race now. javalina jundred is at the end of october...I wonder if I coudl still get in. first 100 miler in the desert with no experience. I'd have to talk to Catra about that...a lot.
keen Glad she's doing better. Sick kids are kind of annoying. 4 TEETH! man I felt like we were stuck at 4 for a month or so then BAM #5 is coming. I wonder how ace and pesto are doing with the teething. They're probably around 2-2 (see what I did there) right now. As for the 2-2 breathing...it takes a short while to become accustomed to it however it ends up not feeling too fast after maybe 2 or 3 weeks of doing it. As for T and anything else being by feel....it all sucks. I'm not even sure what M pace feels like at this point since I feel like everything I've done is T, or I pace. I missed a few M runs but even still...M doesn't seem to fit anywhere other than "um something around feeling like this for a while." Have fun this weekend. Hopefully you're correct about the race environment pushing me along. I'm HOPING to be towards the front of the pack after 400m or so but it won't shock me if I'm mid pack.
Resident Millennial
brew you can definitely do a sub6 mile!
the jpmorgan corporate challenge was last night. if you've never done it, it's an odd race that is all charity-ed/hyped up for the corporate side, most people who do it are "hobbyjoggers", but also most of the local fasties from our USATF racing scene seem to show up (just wearing different singlets than they usually do). it's also, intentionally and irritatingly, 3.5mi. i had a good race- definitely feeling fit, just from all the base building so far. average 6:13s, which ofc would extrapolate to a sizeable 5k PR (sclever estimates 19:19), but it's 3.5mi so it doesn't count... i think that's the 3rd time this has happened to me at this race! anyway, fun evening. was tough to fall asleep afterwards.
mcB- lolol
5th ave mile is the best. i miss it (participating + spectating!)
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
brew you can definitely do a sub6 mile! the jpmorgan corporate challenge was last night. if you've never done it, it's an odd race that is all charity-ed/hyped up for the corporate side, most people who do it are "hobbyjoggers", but also most of the local fasties from our USATF racing scene seem to show up (just wearing different singlets than they usually do). it's also, intentionally and irritatingly, 3.5mi. i had a good race- definitely feeling fit, just from all the base building so far. average 6:13s, which ofc would extrapolate to a sizeable 5k PR (sclever estimates 19:19), but it's 3.5mi so it doesn't count... i think that's the 3rd time this has happened to me at this race! anyway, fun evening. was tough to fall asleep afterwards.
DUDE...you fawking RIPPED that race. Heck, you even ripped the cool down after that was just as long as the 5K. Also, there were some pretty elite companies represented online. I didn't know you had so many connections in the "I work at" community
Oh yeah....kelly barber is also doing Tahoe 200. somehow I teamed up with him on Strava...probably during some ultra race I did.
Congrats RLK - very nice job. Hopefully that translates well into some great fall races!
Rovatti - thanks for the advice - helpful. My plan was already to go out controlled and let everyone surge ahead, and then run them down over the next 1200.
Brew - quick note on racing the mile - don't worry about pace - you won't have time. Seriously, things happen too fast in a mile to check your watch - unless they have someone calling splits or display clocks at each quarter, you're running off of feel.
Welcome back Rune. While we're talking about running by feel, I want to make a big point.
Running by feel is NOT about being able to hit a specific number on your watch without looking at your watch. It's about hitting a specific effort. When I do a marathon pace workout by feel and I don't hit 6:52, that doesn't mean that I'm doing it wrong. It means that 6:45 or 7:05 was my marathon pace for that day.
Noting this because a lot of people assign a specific pace number to a certain distance, and then when they can't hit that pace without looking at their watch, say that they are bad at running by feel.
CK - the breathing still fascinates me - I think I'm 4/4 or slower breathing even at mile pace. But again, I have a very high cadence and also need to breathe slowly and deeply at all times because of my vocal chord dysfunction stuff. I can't imagine ever breathing at 2/2 cadence.
9 miles for me today. 3 mile warm-up (9:13), one up-tempo mile in 6:18 followed by a 800m jog and watching the rest of my teammates finish their workouts. Then 4.5 very easy (9:21) plus 4 short hill sprints. Also very light injury prevention work and some DIY yoga to loosen hips.
thanks brew and dwave!
she gives good mile advice, brew. it goes by SO fast. i find that the section where i need to "work" is the 3rd quarter - you start to realize "oh, i'm not almost done yet and it's feeling hard", but don't get lazy! push it mentally in the 3rd, and in the 4th your racing reflexes will take over since you're so close (hopefully you can see the finish; that always helps).are you racing a mile sometime soon??
but dwave, on the note of clocks at every quarter, i missed if you said you're racing 5th ave. if so, don't forget that the clocks at each 400 may be a bit off (unless you put yourself on the start line at the start).
Brew: give it all you’ve got on that mile, you’ve got sub6 in you, no doubt about it!
dw: what was the purpose of the one up tempo mile? Just curious
ck/brew : our youngest sped her way into 6 teeth! Top four came at one time and she was more than a little cranky!
rll: you’re kicking some ass right now!
Half marathon tomorrow!
Conditions at the start: 70 degrees with dp of 70, ugh. Originally they were calling for some rain which could’ve helped cool things off, but it looks like it’s coming that afternoon.
Still going to shoot for a PR, but will adjust if needed. Plan to start around 6:25-6:30s and work down from there.
This race will be about as opposite as possible from my last PR (Charleston) which was flat as a pancake and 35 degrees. We have a busy weekend after the race, but I’ll try to drop by with a result or brief summary.
My kiddos are staying with their aunt tonight since the race is early and an hour away. My oldest was so sweet, she said, “Daddy run fast and do your best to win the race!”
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)