Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Brew: running on the TM is torture already, I only do easy runs on it (or maybe that's the problem). Anyways. I essentially do one of three hill workouts.
1. 100 meter hill sprints (~5% grade) at high effort (6:00/pace) (12-16x), jog recovery down the hill.
2. 200 meter hill sprints (~5% grade) at moderately high effort (6:20-6:30) (10-12), jog recovery down the hill.
3. 5-7 miles hilly course with hills hard and downhills/flats easy.
12x400 workout this morning with 60s rest between intervals. Goal was 81s per 400, but that didn't happen. Most were 82-84. Max HR was 173, so I may have been able to push just a bit more. Last time I did 12x400 was 2003. I still have a particular hatred for 400s. Not sure why. It just sucks.
I'm at 191 miles for January. I've never hit a 200 mile month, but am only scheduled for 6 easy tomorrow. Debating adding an extra 3, but that's not on the training plan, so...maybe a 3 mile jog with the dog after work?
arvind: nice week. When are you racing again?
Ilana: coming back from zero is no fun. Keep it up!
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Thank you AH, have an half coming up in March
BR, I do sprint up the hill and recover down hill.
Rozzie - I know I'm pretty lucky to have the work atmosphere I do. I changed jobs 6 months ago and haven't regretted it ever!
Ilana - starting from zero does indeed suck, I've done it lots of times. But you can get back! I still remember doing a 3 miler and thinking there was no way I could do a marathon in 4 months bc it was HARD but it happened!
DW - nah the bosses aren't that ridiculous! So that's good. I seem to be the most athletically inclined of the bunch. The only annoying thing is that they DO have "the biggest loser" competition going on (eyeroll), which I abstained from.
SC - on heart rate during a marathon, mine is always pretty high. In my last race. My average HR was 172 for the entire marathon and started hitting the 180s less than halfway in. It was a negative split race, so I was able to sustain it. I'm not entirely sure why I can sustain a high HR like that. or if I should aim to be lower, but most of my training runs put me in the 160s regardless of speed. Much of this may be because I'm young (32) and small (5', 110 lbs), but otherwise I attribute it to just how I am. I don't think this is particularly helpful to many other people.
Oregon - I don't worry about it much since I can just shut myself in my office but sometimes I have to meet with clients and hope they don't mind!
FB - nice week and nice on trying to get to 200!
OMR - hope the knee keeps improving on its own. Arthritis is no fun.
Brew - I've never done hill sprints.. so there's my incredibly unhelpful .02..
Ended up doing 5.9 slow miles yesterday (in short sleeves?!) My kid and/or husband gave me a cold so on top of being tired from building miles, I think that affected me. Seems to be something I can run through, just annoying and tiring.
PRs: HM: 1:32:59 (2015); FM: 3:18:36 (2017)
Speed Surplus
"My average HR was 172 for the entire marathon and started hitting the 180s less than halfway in. It was a negative split race, so I was able to sustain it. I'm not entirely sure why I can sustain a high HR like that. or if I should aim to be lower, but most of my training runs put me in the 160s regardless of speed. Much of this may be because I'm young (32) and small (5', 110 lbs)"
Yeah, I'm old(er) (40) and large (6'1", 170 lbs), but IDK if/how that impacts HR.
Thanks to all who posted HR data - it's interesting. I can't imagine sustaining close to 170 or 170+ for very long. It feels VERY hard for me.
I guess what I need to do is compare my HR in a month or two when I do a similar MP run and see if it's any lower, and if it feels any easier. I sure hope it does!
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
I've run one marathon, and I started a hair too fast on that one. And it was on relatively low mileage so take that into account as well :-) But my progression was something like this for my average heart rate per split, as reported by Strava, with 192 as my max heart rate:
- Mid to high 150s the first 7 miles
- 161 at mile 8
- 164 at mile 10
- 168 at mile 15
- 170 at mile 17
- 174 at mile 20
And then basically flat from there, and even a little bit lower the last couple of miles as I was gradually slowing down. Max HR was 180. It seems like I started hitting that max HR in peaks here and there at mile 18.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Strict WTF adherent
Good to see Ilana can be lured out of lurking status.
Meanwhile, the "best available" seats for the Millrose Games cost how much?
Interesting info on HR. I've never tracked mine too closely, but I pay a little more attention on easy days during training just to make sure I'm actually recovering. I don't know what my max is, but I'm guessing 190-ish, which I think I've hit a few times. During my last marathon, I averaged around 160, and I was not running all out in that one (it was hot, and I knew I would struggle with that so I tried to run smart). I've never really calculated where I "should" be for various paces, but it is interesting data to look at afterwards.
6ish miles this morning. I didn't get to run last night like I hoped so started out the week with a zero. I think tomorrow I will try some kind of speed work for the first time in awhile. I'm going to run an 8k in March -- not really sure how to train for that, so I'll probably just kind of wing it.
Brewing: I think 4-5 minutes total recovery. More than that seems way too long.
Ace: How did you come up with the pace on your 400s? Is that 5k pace?
Katia; Colds are draining -- and kids are definitely little germ factories. My husband and I used to call one of ours "the Outbreak monkey" when he was in daycare. Hope it doesn't last long.
SomethingClever: Which Tunnel marathon are you running? I think I'm going to run either the August or Sept version -- probably September because I'm worried August might be too warm. Have you run in before? I've read good reviews, but haven't done it.
oregon: it's closer to mile pace. I use a local coaching service who sets the pacing for workouts.
SC - fwiw, my HR doesn't seem to actually go down much as I get in better shape, I'm just able to keep it higher for longer. I think, at least, I don't have any statistical data in the form of graphs to back this up..
Oregon - oh yay another mom (and lawyer)! Kids are indeed germ factories.. Lol to outbreak monkey. We just pulled our son out of daycare since he hated it and we have a nanny. I'm hoping that helps b/c there are only so many mancolds I can deal with,,,
My thoughts exactly. $650!!! Who would pay that??
I got a decent/OK seat for 90$
Mother of Cats
My understanding is that HR is very individual, so you really can't compare from person to person. Smaller people and women tend to have higher heart rates.
Ace - I don't like repeat 400s at mile pace either. I love adding one or two at the end of a workout - you can just hammer, knowing that you're almost done. But to hammer and hammer and hammer - yuck.
Smax has run Tunnel - perhaps he can be lured out of lurkdom as well.
I wonder who pays those prices for Millrose seats? Can't be too much overlap between rabid indoor track fans and those with extensive disposable income.
12 miles for me this morning. 3 mile warm-up (9:03 pace), then 3200, two lap recovery, and 4x800 with 400m recovery. Ran the 3200 in 12:50 (6:28/6:22) and the 800s all in 3:02 (that's what my coach was calling, so I'm going with it - I had some lap-button issues this morning due to mittens and long sleeve shirts). 3.5 mile cooldown (9:40) plus injury prevention work and recovery swimming.
Duke - the rack was indeed runnable, though I can see why you wouldn't take the risk of driving down to learn it wasn't. There was a slight bit of ice on one corner, but it wasn't really an issue.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Problem Child
Brew: running on the TM is torture already, I only do easy runs on it (or maybe that's the problem). Anyways. I essentially do one of three hill workouts. 1. 100 meter hill sprints (~5% grade) at high effort (6:00/pace) (12-16x), jog recovery down the hill. 2. 200 meter hill sprints (~5% grade) at moderately high effort (6:20-6:30) (10-12), jog recovery down the hill. 3. 5-7 miles hilly course with hills hard and downhills/flats easy. 12x400 workout this morning with 60s rest between intervals. Goal was 81s per 400
12x400 workout this morning with 60s rest between intervals. Goal was 81s per 400
400 meters. 81 seconds. 4.93 meters per second for 400 meters. 16.174 feet per second. 11.1 miles per hour. 5:25/mile.
12 times. Nope. I'll sit here and eat donuts and cheer you on. "Doing good Dad. Thumbs up. Can we go get donuts? I'm cold."
Are you like 6'8 and 122 lbs and part jack rabbit or something? Good GAWD that's some speed.
I think kev might be the only one who could possible top that or maybe did in his last BQ. I think he pulled out something like 5:20 pace (okay maybe not THAT fast) for the last 400 or something.
oregon Yeah I was thinking 4-5 total.
KK well at least your honest.
SC For me 170 kind of triggers a "DANGER WILL ROBBINS" (or whatever that kid's name was) and I either try and change my breathing to keep it lower or consider how much distance I can do at that heart rate and hope it doesn't get much higher. It's about a 9.5/10 for me personally. I'm a little curious to know what my 5K heart rate is in March. The intervals I'm doing say it's maxing out at 170ish so I might need to adjust my maximum heart rate.
I kind of struggled to get a Strava title today. I SHOULD actually create a word document to keep track of these things but until I am interviewed by Strava about it, or I have lots more imaginary friends becoming interested in my training titles I'll keep going off memory.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Cobra Commander Keen
I originally read that as "guns," not gus. And then it got me to wondering if Dwave carries her gun in...oh, I don't even want to know. ;-)
It's good to know I wasn't the only person to do that.
Wow, this thread has really been moving in the last couple days!
Rune - 24 weeks does seem like a long time to follow a specific plan. Depending on how my upcoming Daniels plan goes I may look into getting one for a fall marathon as well.
Jaime - Hi, and welcome!
KK - There's nothing wrong with building slowly and surely; it's far better than quickly then injured.
RJones - Uh-oh, you mentioned The Name. Surely you're DOOMED now.
SC - Welcome back! What are your max and resting HR's, if you know them? For a marathon I know I can average at least 82.6% of max HR, or about 78% of HRR (crossing that number a little past the HM mark), if that helps at all.
Ilana - It has been good seeing you pop up on Strava.
Rozzie - Good job on the HM.
Arvind - Nice week.
Ace - You've never hit 200 miles in a month? That makes your speed even more impressive.
Brew - Will Robinson. Close.
I realized last night that I haven't actually raced anything since the end of April last year. I'm feeling the need to get out and run a race. I'm about a month our from my next race, a 15k. Due to some construction at/around the park this race usually starts and ends at, the start/finish has been moved to a different spot around the lake. It'll be interesting to see how they move the course.
I formally start a 12-week Daniels plan on Monday, targeting a HM at the end of April. This will be my first time following a legit plan, rather than something I put together piecemeal.
No run for me this morning. I quite frankly woke up and though "I'm too tired", and went back to sleep. May tomorrow be better!
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
"SC - Welcome back! What are your max and resting HR's, if you know them? For a marathon I know I can average at least 82.6% of max HR, or about 78% of HRR (crossing that number a little past the HM mark), if that helps at all."
Resting is usually around 50. I don't know what the max is, but I'd suspect 185 or so.
Brew ~ 4-5 minutes total. A little bit at top hands-on-knees, sucking air; turn around, shuffle down hill barely faster than walking; go past start point, walk like you're going to your execution slow back toward start line; stand at start line for a few seconds before you go 5-4-3-2-1 ...
Ace ~ Slower runs are indeed harder on TM (than workouts).
7.5 easy