Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
pj - congrats ton the 2nd place and a great race!
ck - congrats on the second place OA HM! I find it hard to interpret times on hilly courses, as they do not say much about what you'd be able to run on a flat course. Hills also really affect me.
beryl - solid training week! And good luck on the 50k.
brew and arv - way to tough it out in Chicago and finish! It sounds like both of you had a difficult end to the race, but managed to finish it, so big kudos to both. As max said once (I think), not everyone can finish a marathon. And even so more when you are having troubles.
brew, I echo CK's comments about not having lost 4 months of your life and the cumulative nature of training cycles. I just ran 2 PRs (HM and FM) off a sub-par cycle, and I think my previous two cycles had a lot to do with this. You just need to have a bit of luck and have a good race day (both weather-wise and personally). So I think running 2 more marathons on the qualifying window will increase your chances of getting one of those days.
arv, regarding running another marathon soon, I think it depends on how fast you tend to recover. I agree with DkW that you probably want to wait a few days before making a decision to see how your body feels.
cramps - I ran a marathon yesterday and when I tried to sprint at the last 300-400 mts, I got a bad cramp. This has happened in every single marathon I've run, with the exception of the first one (where the priority was finishing). Maybe I should stop trying to sprint. Interesting to read that they are a sign of pushing beyond your fitness.
rune - good luck with tapering and travelling this week!
Hi to everyone else!
me - I just ran my first sub-3 yesterday! I finally got a break weather-wise and had decent conditions for the full. I ran 2:57:59 in Graz, with a 4 min positive split (1:26:58 / 1:31:01) . Was planning on crossing the halfway point at around 1:28 as I always tend to fade after the 2:20 hour mark, but felt good at the start and went out a little bit faster than planned. The last 8 km were very interesting, as I knew I had a sub-3 at reach unless something catastrophic happened, but it was still the usual suffering of the end of a marathon. Anyway, I'll see if I can put a short RR together during the week.
5K - 18:03 (5.18) | 10K - 37:58 (2.18) | HM - 1:20:45 (9.18) | FM: 2:57:59 (10.18)
Pesto - 2:57?? That's HUGE!!!! (not to mention your 1:20 half...) CONGRATS!!!!
Wow Pesto . Hearty congrats. Just awesome
I took a break of 4 days from running. Did lot of cardio during these 4 days. Ran 18 miles yesterday. Was tough, but managed to do it. I seemed to do ok on rolling hills but the flat surface needs a bit of work. I am planning to add track work back into my weekly plan.
DW - hope the calf is still good.pepper - sounds like a fun 10k. I got edged out at the line for a 10k once about 3 years ago. I was laughing as it happened because the small crowd was screaming for us. I cared nothing about the win and was there for a time.beryl - sounds like the miles are going mostly well. Hill repeats are good speedwork.OMR - miles are bumping up there. Pace is right on for not pushing it.Pesto summary - "Good job everyone. I cramped a little in my sub-3." Sub 2:58 is sweeeeet! Congrats!Arvind is keeping mum about bouncing back after being chastised, but I have my suspicions.Me - The weather change here after the Michael storm went through has been much more fall like. I now feel like I'm missing out since I haven't been on a training plan like so many of my running buddies. They all had their peak weeks and are about 3 weeks away from their fulls (NYC and Savannah). I joined a friend for her 21 mile run Sunday. Other friends started with us or jumped in part way through. I hadn't run more than 16 miles since June. I felt fine for the first 15 or so and then started feeling great. It was odd, probably an actual runner's high. The miles felt effortless and I picked up the pace for the last couple of miles, though I stopped with just a bit over 20 miles. I felt like another 6.2 would not be difficult.And now I'm toying with the idea of just running the local marathon (Charlotte). It is the same weekend as NYC - 3 weeks away. For the past two months my weekly miles average to 45 mpw. This is much less than I've averaged before recent marathons, but not far off from a lot of training plans and what I used to do for my first few marathons.If I did it, I would not worry about time or pace so much, just start off easy-ish and see how the later miles go. Thoughts?
Strict WTF adherent
Pesto - Awesome. Regarding sprinting at the end of a marathon: why?
PJ - Nice work. Am I reading correctly that you chose not to pass?
Matt - Go for it.
My week:
Mon - Weights
Tues - 4.5 easy
Wed- Weights and 2 easy with strides a.m./4 easy p.m.
Thurs - TURD
Fri - Weights and 2 fartlek-ish
Sat - 5 fast-ish finish
Sun - 5 slow
Total - 22.5, which is the most I've done since mid-July. Next step is to try running outside and probably re-injure myself.
Matt Go for it.
I still have not decided on another Fall race yet. I am waiting to see how this weeks feels in terms of the training. I will decide in the next 10 days.
Arvind is keeping mum about bouncing back after being chastised, but I have my suspicions.Me - The weather change here after the Michael storm went through has been much more fall like. I now feel like I'm missing out since I haven't been on a training plan like so many of my running buddies. They all had their peak weeks and are about 3 weeks away from their fulls (NYC and Savannah). I joined a friend for her 21 mile run Sunday. Other friends started with us or jumped in part way through. I hadn't run more than 16 miles since June. I felt fine for the first 15 or so and then started feeling great. It was odd, probably an actual runner's high. The miles felt effortless and I picked up the pace for the last couple of miles, though I stopped with just a bit over 20 miles. I felt like another 6.2 would not be difficult.And now I'm toying with the idea of just running the local marathon (Charlotte). It is the same weekend as NYC - 3 weeks away. For the past two months my weekly miles average to 45 mpw. This is much less than I've averaged before recent marathons, but not far off from a lot of training plans and what I used to do for my first few marathons.If I did it, I would not worry about time or pace so much, just start off easy-ish and see how the later miles go. Thoughts?
Pesto: Incredible 26.2! Way to go. I know that has to feel good.
Matt: I think you should run the marathon! Why not?
I had a good week. A little over 53 miles put in with 12x400 on Wednesday and 22 miles on Saturday. Faster paces are feeling under better control and I'm recovering well from workouts and long runs. Hopefully this is a good sign for things to come in 3 weeks at Indy.
On my long run I had a pickup the last 7 miles (6:56, 6:49, 6:57, 6:50, 6:53, 6:50, 6:35). The third pickup mile was uphill and into a decent headwind. I had fuel left in the tank at the end, which felt good. Just a couple workouts left and then the race.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Guess I should have known asking a bunch of people running marathons if I should run a marathon.
Okay, what about realistic time goals? I would be more inclined to do it if I thought I could be under 3:20 (yes, BQ time, but not necessarily because I want to go to BQ race). This may be a stretch, but for some reason a 7:30-ish pace sounds doable to me. If I was to go for it, I think I should keep my miles kind of high (~55) for the next two weeks and do a shorter taper.
Most of my recent miles are at an 8:30 pace. I've done very little speed work. Last Tuesday was my longest (tempo? MP?) where I ran 8 miles at a 7:20 average. But really the first mile was an 8:40, following seven were 7:20 and under. Long runs have been majorly lacking with most in the 12 - 14 range). I did the 20 yesterday which got me to 58 for the week. Plus I do ride my bike to work which usually adds up to more than 100 miles per week.
Pace Prophet
Pesto - congratulations again!
Matt - do you have any recent short-distance race times? What was the average of miles 2-8 of your tempo which you say were under 7:20? I find that a 6+ mile tempo after a 2M warm-up is a good proxy for a half, so if e.g. you averaged 7:15, I'd say you could run a ~3:25 marathon now.
Cobra Commander Keen
PJ - Solid on the 10k. You probably have more restraint than I do - I'm not sure I could have sat behind someone for an entire race and not passed at some point when I had the ability.
Beryl - Sounds like a solid week, especially that mid-week 16. Are you planning on continuing with runs like that without fueling?I'm a fan of that myself, and have found that after a few of them the post-run hunger really subsides.
I don't think you're trying to do too much at once. Slowing down easy pace and running continuously go hand-in-hand to me.
Pesto - Awesome job on the sub-3! I think we all knew that was just a matter of time. Looking forward to the RR.
McBen - Good week. Best of luck getting outside and not injuring yourself.
Ace - You seem to be in good position just ahead of your race.
Things were super-quiet around here over the weekend.
Bleh week from me, at least when compared with what I was planning on. Got sick and ended up taking two unplanned days off. I was feeling pretty decent Sunday and thought about going for an easy run, but decided not to upset what was already going to be a day off. We had a cold front blow in Sunday evening, which gave me the perfect opportunity to try out a new pair of compression thermal tights. 2XU makes some great stuff!Had a great workout this morning (largely thanks to having well rested legs) and am looking forward to putting together two big weeks in a row before starting the taper.
How weird is it that I'm considering a 50k in January? Too many rabbits...
Weekly SummaryMonday, Oct 08, 2018 thru Sunday, Oct 14, 2018
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Hey Pesto -- congratulations! That's great. Well executed race; that feeling that you should hit your goal if you hold it together, but you still need to suffer to finish can be a lot of fun. It can makes the training really seem worth it as you close the race out.
Matt -- wow, that must be a nice feeling. I still start feeling my HR go up and 10 and 16+ is a grind. Great that you are good shape!
McB -- good luck getting hurt again. Gosh I love this sport; go for it!
Rovatti -- we are set for seeing DD1. The best day is Tues if you can swing it.
Ace -- nice finish to a LR. Wow those mile times make me feel old.
Keen -- good luck building toward the peak; clearly you can run a bunch of 8:20s at 70%, which is good to know.
Max -- is Max alive and well?
OMR -- 40! yay.
PJ -- hope you are still enjoying CA; congratulations. Has the state stopped being on fire?
Me -- I seem to be settling into 9:10+ as an "I can go forever" pace, which other than the fact that it is slow as hell, is probably a good thing. My achilles calms down at the slower pace. Funny though; I don't have a race. Nov/Dec are packed with Thanksgiving, Xmas, birthdays, kids, travel, etc. I need to think about that. I'm doing 60 mpw (slow) with a 16-17 mile LR-ish (5 in a row), and no race until April. Weird.
M 6@9:04
T 6@9:08
W 10@9:10
T 8@8:57
F 8@9:06
Sa 8@9:32
Su 16@9:16
62@9:11
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
Unfortunately I don't have any recent races. Full marathon last March is all (3:20). Here's the recent tempo run. Last 6 averaged about 7:08. I wasn't necessarily pushing a tempo effort on these. Original goal for the run was to run 8 miles in one hour (7:30 pace). I just ended up feeling pretty good. Route was flatter than most of my runs too, so little help there.
I think if had been in a race yesterday I could have pulled off a 3:30. So your 3:25 is probably a good prediction. I'll probably not decide anything until the week of. Price doesn't change until it goes to the expo the Thursday before the Saturday race I think.
Speed Surplus
"I would say that unless you're riding major hills, you'll get used to the bike commute and be fine. The e-bike should help to keep the effort down."
Unfortunately, the hills are unavoidable around here. I can keep my heart rate to about 120 (or slightly less), but I can't avoid the hills. And I can't do my runs before the commute, as that's when my wife gets HER run in. Would still love to hear some more opinions about all of this very easy bike cardio load.
I'll post my week (with only 2 bike commute days) for evaluation.
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
A naive question. What is e-Bike?
"I would say that unless you're riding major hills, you'll get used to the bike commute and be fine. The e-bike should help to keep the effort down." Unfortunately, the hills are unavoidable around here. I can keep my heart rate to about 120 (or slightly less), but I can't avoid the hills. And I can't do my runs before the commute, as that's when my wife gets HER run in. Would still love to hear some more opinions about all of this very easy bike cardio load. I'll post my week (with only 2 bike commute days) for evaluation. Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Egain Link Tue 4.1 9:06 0:37 Gentle treadmill shakeout for hammies (sore from house projects) 138 (75%) 0 strava Wed 18.6 3:21 1:02 First ebike ride! More work than expected and I sweated through my shirt 😓 133 (72%) 1043 strava Wed 5.0 8:50 0:44 EZ mill action since I'm tripling today 143 (78%) 0 strava Wed 18.6 3:14 1:00 Easier on the way home. 124 (67%) 779 strava Thu 18.5 3:23 1:02 Tried to keep it VERY easy to not spoil my run later 116 (63%) 1004 strava Thu 5.1 8:23 0:43 Freddy's run 144 (78%) 368 strava Thu 18.6 3:09 0:58 Put a little mustard on at the end to pass a very fit actual cyclist and also break 60 min 130 (71%) 795 strava Sat 4.5 7:41 0:34 Fresh legs so I stretched 'em a bit 148 (80%) 215 strava Sun 6.8 8:55 1:01 Kinda sluggish 134 (73%) 237 strava
"A naive question. What is e-Bike?"
There are actually a lot of different types of ebikes, but what I have is called a pedelec (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec). It's basically a regular bicycle that has an electric motor and battery, but no throttle. So it behaves like a normal bicycle, but it adds watts to each rotation of the crank to make you feel like Alberto Contador.
tl;dr - it's an electric bicycle that makes it easier to go up hills and sustain higher speeds on the flats, but you still have to pedal.