Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
pie man
The time I did shamrock it started a mile inland at the convention center and you ran a weird fishhook out-and-back partially on the naval base. Course looks drastically different from that either way. As long as it's the right distance I am ok with anything.
232 for the month. 58 in the last 6 days.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Keen: I ended up with chocolate-peanut butter milkshake! Strawberry is good too!
Oregon: sorry you missed the super full blood blue moon. Gotta say I love a full moon for my evening dog walks.
RLK: thanks for advocating for vaccinations!
Arvin: feel free to join in in the conversation per current thread theology.
400s: had an easy run today and was happy to not have any residual fatigue or soreness from my 12x400s.
I’m late to the chiming in on 24 week training cycles, but I don’t think they’d work for me. I traditionally peak much earlier than that in a dedicated cycle.
Dad: solid start to the year!
Feeling a bit nostalgic about running lately. Not sure why. I saw a guy running the other day. Looked like a “real” runner (short shorts, good form) and thought “Why the hell do we do this?” Anyways, got me thinking what running means to me and honestly I’m not exactly sure. I know I enjoy the activity itself and the benefits of it. I like pushing myself towards goals, but I also just like running. My random thought for the day.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Dad, I love love love reading your workouts. It gives me hope that I will get back there one day. Not your break neck speed of course, but something I can feel proud about.
HR: This has all been super informative. Thank you DWave for pointing out that females have higher HRs traditionally. For a while there I was thinking I need to start pulling out my life insurance policy. Me personally I am all over place with trying to get back into race shape. But the nurse in me has this physical picture in my mind of what my heart is doing and I am like, wow. Kinda cool and scary at the same time.
Pepperjack: I have looked at Shamrock over the years several times but never ran it. I like your attitude about taking it for whatever it is. As long as the distance is correct. I am tossing and turning over what marathon to pick for my attempt next year. I look forward to your race/course report if you decide to pull the trigger!
RLK: love the hastags! Cracking up...thank you also for speaking up for VACs.
Katia: I am quite jealous of you finding a running partner. I think I took for granted so long living in a place where I knew so many runners/group runs I could hop in. Orlando is weird, I feel like sometimes putting an ad in the paper (like people read those anymore) for a running partner. Who knows what type of psycho would come out of the wood works.
Ace: Really enjoyed your thoughts on running. I did learn when I was out forever with my injury that I just missed running. Not training, not racing, not Garmins, V02 max, but just the simple pleasure of being outside and running. I think my time away has given me deep appreciation for it I never had before.
So question, anyone use kettlebells to XT with? Thoughts, recommendations for workouts?
Ace: Really enjoyed your thoughts on running. I did learn when I was out forever with my injury that I just missed running. Not training, not racing, not Garmins, V02 max, but just the simple pleasure of being outside and running. I think my time away has given me deep appreciation for it I never had before. So question, anyone use kettlebells to XT with? Thoughts, recommendations for workouts?
Ditto to Ace's observation. I don't really struggle with motivation to run, but I do have a harder time wanting to stick with a training plan. "Ugh, 4am already. Again." It definitely is tougher when you have a job (or jobs), family, and general life stuff going on that makes you fit the runs in when you can.
And I'm not really all that into racing either. So far I think the only reason I do race is because my friends do it. I end up running with them, therefore training, so may as well make it official and register too.
I haven't done actual kettlebell workouts. I'm sure if done right they are as good as anything. I've only used them a dumbbell replacements when doing lunges or calf raises and the like.
Problem Child
new parents- all i have to say is ... please vaccinate your kids! haha. hippie (uninformed) parents in the bay area can be scary on this topic.
************************************************************************************************************************************************** Is pretty much all I have to say to those parents. Yup, you're kid is going to become autistic and live a very long time due to modern medicine because of some blog post you read. I know a kid who told me his sister didn't vaccinate her kids. He wasn't allowed to take sex ed in school. Head back to 1943 with your logic and enjoy living the lifestyle. [end rant?]
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
kk I've accepted he probably won't sleep as much as some website says. He is probably more like me than my wife will accept. Also, I love all the parenting experiences I get to see online with your kiddo. Good luck on the sickness. Oddly enough, NeRP doesn't fall asleep in the car, yet, which would also make him a little more like me as a child (not baby) on car rides. 13 miles outside isn't as far as 6 miles inside so there is that.
Keen yeah it's the time/pace/distance variation I couldn't keep straight. Maybe I should read the book. I always have to use a pace calculator to figure out how fast an interval is when it's in seconds. Thankfully McMillan has one or the internet pulls up "Pace Calculator" when I need to figure it out.
Dwave good luck on the 10K. Imagine not racing for a year. It's pretty weird not HAVING to train and just casual runs filling the week. You end up wondering what people do if they don't run or wake up early to do stuff.
ace I kind of had a similar thought last year when I took a LOT of time off. Yeah it sucks getting back into 6 mile runs but it becomes a ritual kind of thing and your days seem off. Some people just need to literally workout the stress.
rozzie no input on kettle bells. I've always viewed them as dumbells with a different shape for cross fitters to swing around with no focus on form.
matt DAMN that's a high heart rate for the marathon. I might use the 193-5 range for maximum. Yours is about as high as mine and that is interesting because I'm 12-13 years younger than you. Also, I might have to move the treadmill into the house if walks end up being the only thing to put him to sleep. I'm sure my wife would love being able to watch TV while putting him to sleep. She already blames all the bouncing she did during pregnancy for the reason he likes that so much.
dad How long of a hill do you need for 3 minutes? The local speed demons did a 0.4 mile hill repeat on Wednesday (speed day, all invited) and I wasn't sure if that's a LONG hill or a short hill. I think they were targeting HM pace.
When I do intervals on Tuesdays RB doesn't set his watch up any different. He requires me to start the workout when his total time is at the start of a minute, then he doesn't use the lap feature to time the lap so he is trying to do math in his head and asks me "I thought we were done." Slightly annoying even when I ask "why don't you create an interval screen on your Fenix 5 or use lap time and hit the lap button after the interval?" Response: "That's what I have you for." Yup. Watch can have 16 pieces of information displayed. Comes to workout with me. Asks what the interval is then when his math is off and he thinks the interval is over early I tell him "If you had lap time you'd know how long it was." response: "well I thought we started at 18 but maybe it was 19 but then...." "yeah thats why I have the watch do the math for me."
Possibly a short run today. Charging up the hill yesterday pushed Tempo effort/HR and it wasn't "comfortably hard" it was "hard" and as much as I wanted to push for the 3 miles I didn't think it was smart right after intervals with hills on Friday. I think I'll set an alarm for 4:00am to do my TRX workouts. Mother in law in town this week. She does weird things like use a blender for 4 seconds to melt butter and coconut oil in her coffee. We have an immersion blender and tell her about it. Response "Oh that's fine I'll just use this." NeRP is sleeping on the other side of the wall. #facepalm
#nobodycaresworkharder.
Mother of Cats
So...one of the big concerns about flu vaccinations was the disease Guillain-Barre - it's a nasty auto-immune disease that can be triggered by the flu. For that reason, people avoid getting the vaccine because they fear that the vaccine would trigger it. That's always made no sense to me - I would think that you'd want the vaccine so that you don't get the flu so that you don't get Guillain-Barre.
(my mom actually got Guillain-Barre about 10 years ago, after (wait for it) getting the flu).
I've used Kettlebells some - I didn't think they helped my running that much. I've found that barbell lunges and stepping up onto a bench while holding dumbbells are much more running specific.
Dad - the 10K is the "For the Love of It" - it's at South Lakes HS in Reston (known as the high school of Alan Webb). Course is supposedly moderately hilly.
Upper body weights, core stuff, and 9 "miles" pool-running for me this morning.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Yea, not sure why my HR goes so high. Or if it means anything.
If you have a place for the TM inside, try it out. I used to turn on ballgames and/or news when using it. Funny thing is I had that treadmill before I started running regularly. I'd run the occasional mile or two, plus some walking. And my wife walked on it some. But now we don't have it anymore.
Hi, all
re HR: I might be a freak. I consider my resting HR=32 when in shape (although I have seen it down to 28 in my activity monitor)... Conversely, my Max HR doesn't probably reach the generic (imprecise but well known) 220-age. I guess it can reach 218-age by previous observations, but the max I have been able to see it lately is 168 at the end of a 10K back in June.
re. Vaccines: We all at home are following the schema. But the flu shot when we had a new born in 2014 was not good: We all got sick in the next 2-3weeks. Turned out that the effectiveness of the flu shot that winter was ... 0% (not a typo! zero! nil!)
This year, 2017-18, the flu shot has an expected 10% (different strain as forecast)... and based on official stats, they can reach 50% or 60% at best. So vaccines, yes, flu shots: just a maybe for me.
Regarding your training, I don't have your experience nor have I seen your workouts in the long run... So excuse me if I cannot interpret or comment on that (and I know the gospel wasn't addressed to me).
Me: So far this week a 7k tempo@ 4:05 split in 2 (5k+2K) because I wasn't feeling it (same speed as previous week only that my HR was still rising fast).
Then, yesterday a 16Km run with 10 strides at the end... this was done at the eleventh hour to break the 200miles in January (204 to be exact)
Cobra Commander Keen
RLK - You're welcome!
PJ - Mileage is looking good.
Rozzie - Sorry, no help with kettlebells from me. I'm about the last person who could give advice regarding picking up heavy things and putting them back down. I really should change that.
Brew - I had to look up a chart that listed interval lengths + times along with their conversions to pace. I guess that's what I get not having been able to run track/XC in Jr high/HS.Power coffee is awesome, but not at the expense of waking up the baby. Inlaws, huh??
Jaime - Wow, and I thought my RHR was pretty low!
Running motivation: It's interesting seeing peoples perspectives on this. Losing my roundness in the middle wasn't powerful enough motivation for me to stick with it, but (after my first 5k) trying to see how far/fast I could get did the trick. The health benefits are just gravy.
I'm currently at a loss for coming up with a suitable nickname for DD3 (other than DD3). DD's 1 & 2 have theirs. Perhaps it will come with time.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Brew - I guess it depends on how you see it regarding training programs. I don't even know what JD's 24-week program looks like, but I expect it to have an extended period of base building or something like that with a fair amount of reps and some other speed work sprinkled in here and there. And at the time I'm a bit intrigued regarding following a program but I will wait until after my race in March to decide what I want to do.
Ace - You ran those 400s like a champ! I've done a fair amount of those over the last couple of seasons, but with 1:30 breaks between (which hindsight is probably too long of a break for a VO2max workout). Somehow I've been able to do this workout at mile race pace, which for me is somewhere around 6:00 from most predictions out there.
Keen, Brew - I didn't even run when my kids were young so big kudos to you for keeping the training up. My youngest one is almost 12 and did cross country last fall. He was also excited to stick with the off-season winter workouts and is slowly getting better. Most importantly, he's having fun doing it!
Matt - Those are the craziest pace/HR splits I've ever seen for a marathon. I cringe just to think about how that must have felt.
Dad - That's a lot of miles in a month!
Darkwave - I just spent a day in Reston a couple of weeks ago. Didn't run outside though as it was too cold for somebody who is used to running in CA. Got a few miles on a treadmill though.
Rozzie - Haven't used kettlebells but I just know I need to do a bit more strength training in general.
Last night I made a last minute decision to change my training run from the planned 12.5 miles at m-pace to Jack Daniels' EMTME workout, with a planned 2 miles easy, 6 miles m-pace, 2k threshold pace, 3 miles m-pace, and 2 miles cooldown at the end. I would run the 2 mile easy/warmup regardless and it felt a bit daunting to run 14.5 or 15 miles on a Wednesday evening, so I decided to trade some distance for some added intensity. I also missed this workout a few weeks ago and figured it would fit in well yesterday.
Apart from the fact that an intense urge to go to the bathroom made me cut the last m-pace segment to 1 mile instead of 3 the workout went really well. I started by thinking I would run my m-pace at about 7:25 but somehow fell into a faster pace that felt comfortable. Based on my HR the average pace for the first 6 miles m-pace (7:14) is in no way sustainable for a marathon right now, but is definitely good for a half. So for those who asked about HR and such, I do these comparisons all the time. I know 6 miles doesn't tell me how my endurance would be for a full marathon, or maybe even a half, but it at least tells me where my intensity level is at the time. The end of the workout also proved what a good workout this is to simulate fatigue towards the end of a race as it was pretty hard to keep my pace up for the last mile. Either way this workout was a good confidence builder for me and I think I will feel good sticking with the 1:35 pace group in my race next weekend.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Hey all -- 5 miles very easy miles this morning. When I'm not training for anything my paces fall pretty close to the same range every run. Since I did a harder effort yesterday I worked to keep today's run very easy. I forgot how much I like super easy recovery days (though even those days feel hard to me 15 weeks into marathon training).
Question on tempos for 5k/10k training -- yes? How long? What pace? I like tempos for half marathon and marathon training and think they are one of the key workouts for getting in shape to run a marathon. But I have no idea if that applies to 8k training. Any thoughts?
RLK: Agree on vaccinations - Oregon has pockets of non-vaccinators too -- coincidentally, the same pockets where whooping cough routinely appears.
Keen: Congrats on baby #3! You're an old hand at this!
Dad: Nice January mileage!
Darkwave: Good luck on your 10k. I think I'm the opposite racing -wise: If I run four races a year that's a lot.
Rozzie: Have you talked to the local running stores? Most of them seem to have groups that run from their stores, so that might give you some options.
I might be a bit tired from yesterday's workout; nothing easy about 9:30 miles today.
DkW ~ Thanks. Right after I asked question I read my email w/ a promo from PRR. Good luck.
Rozzie ~ Thanks.
Brew ~ I do them on a TM (avoids downhill pounding), but cover about .45 miles on the 3 minute segment; it's a long hill! I did those at 4%; the one minute hills were 7-8%).
Oregon ~ I believe all paces have a place in any good training place, so there's room for a 'standard" 20 min 'tempo' at LT (and slightly slower) as well as longer stuff, like 50 minutes at what McMillan would call Steady State (closer to current marathon pace) or using Daniels' extended scale. You'll obviously get more value from those if you're focusing on a 10K than a 5K, but for either I'd lean towards slightly faster than LT efforts, like 4x2K at 10K pace or 5x1K at 8K pace w/ short recoveries. You can also do, say, 10-12 minutes at regular tempo effort and add on a few quick ("faster than 5k") 200m-300m repeats (or 1 minute if you aren't near a track) ... attack the pace from both sides! Bottom line: definitely useful, but you also need the faster stuff for 5-10K. HTH.
Jamie ~ 32? Wow!
Matt My running career started on treadmills watching NASCAR races. Yup. Left hand turns and going nowhere. I'm sure my wife would enjoy being able to watch TV. Currently the only corner of the room it could go in is occupied with baby stuff. If DW asks it will all be moved. It was once in a spare bedroom but that was mostly for warmth, I think.
Dad .45 miles uphill? Sounds hard. I honestly don't know how far I'll be going in 1 minute today so we shall find out.
Keen yeah, no track experience here either. Grandma learned if she doesn't let the kid nap while mom is gone they're staying home yesterday. "I thought we we going shopping?" NOPE. You didn't let the kid nap so now he's over-tired. This is the same woman who told me one of her kids cried for 2 hours. "Sometimes they just need to cry to wear themselves out." Uh...NO. I'd go INSANE if he cried for 2 hours.
Rune I think having previously trained for a marathon my wife knows I do what I can when I can. Morning runs are coming back and I do all my M-F runs on lunch at work. Plus she knows the goal is a BQ in October at Chicago which isn't going to be cheap. I try and help out as much as I can. I can related to doing 14 miles mid week. Hanson's has 13-16 (depends on warm up and cool down) runs on Thursdays. Add in 2x3 mile with warm up and cool down and you have another 9-12 mile run on Tuesday. It takes a lot of time. My wife has experienced this life already but I have a feeling if NeRP is throwing a fit I'm going to get some dirty looks and be expected to make it a MERRY Christmas after Chicago.
rozzie I'd second the "store run" running partner. Both LRS (Local Running Store(s)) in town have group runs on each day of the weekend. One starts at 7 and one starts at 8. Conveniently I can usually add about 3 miles into the run if I run from my house.
Oregon 5/10K tempos are a thing. Here is what I'm following from Darkwave's advice/input. I'm not sure when I'll start doing them or even what my Half Marathon pace should be. 6:26 5K pace is a 7:04 marathon which is about where I need to be for a BQ. 45:00 10K is a 7:40. Using the McMillan calculator it says 7:13-7:31. 10 minutes at that pace doesn't seem HORRIBLE...in theory.
Hill repeats today. Also found a running friend I KIND OF did a relay with (2 vans, 12 people, I was van 1 he was van 2) last year on Strava. He did a good pace for about 10 miles on a Saturday so I might go run with him on weekends. It's always nice to have friends PLUS his after work runs are a couple miles from my house (NERD ALERT) so I could always bring in his trash cans if I'm motivated after work for a run.
Running motivation: I think it's just ingrained in me to get satisfaction from training to compete. I would not enjoy running if I didn't race. And I would not enjoy running if I was one of those people who raced every weekend and never trained to improve. I thrive on that whole "working towards a long term athletic goal" thing, and right now that's running.
Tempos for 5K runners. I think a good 20-30 minute tempo is solid and necessary for the 5K-10K distance. I also think that longer intervals, 1200s and miles, are crucial for that mix of speed and strength. The long run is not really important, unless you're coming to the longer distances off of a background as an 800m/1500m runner.
4 miles very easy today (9:02).