Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
... for the 5K-10K distance ... The long run is not really important. ...
+1
Some of the Malmo stuff on LRC on this subject are gold.
I've been working on keeping my "long" run closer to 20% of weekly mileage and 2 hours and feel much better. By doing the LR the day after a workout (i.e., on very tired legs) and on rolling course, I'm still getting decent endurance stimulus.
That said, I can't get my head around this as it relates to marathon training. Everything's different for marathons. Marathons are stoopid.
Oregon and Brew: First week I was here I visited the big local running store to find out about group runs. They politely told me that I could join their marathon training group they sponsor. Supported Weekend LR's, mid week track work... For $250 every 6 months! Are you F'ing kidding me? I don't need to buy running partners....at this point anyway. DH just suggested this Tuesday we can go to a nearby Brewery and do their group run. Some of my best running pals have also been my favorite drinking pals so I am willing to check it out.
DWave: Good luck in the 10K this weekend! I have to admit, like you, I do thrive on goal centered training.
Brew: Good luck with the MIL visit. Ugh. How often do you do TRX workouts?
Jamie: That is an incredible RHR! I am all over the place on HR's, 42 RHR and high as 189 when I am running hot and tired. Nice mileage month as well!
Jan miles: I ended up around 166. Still aiming for 200, but I have doubled since August. Train keeps chugging along...
Mother of Cats
Checking in - ran 40:36 at my 10K this morning. A bit slow, mostly because my legs felt dead and heavy, which is no doubt due to the uptick in mileage and long runs. Race report is here: http://wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com/
14 miles for the day: 3 mile warm-up, 10K race, and then 5 miles later. Also did some recovery swimming.
Rozz - $250 for 6 months with a coached training group doesn't sound off to me. Our group is $225 for 3 months or $400 for 6 months, which includes 2 coached track workouts and a supported long run, plus training advice. But of course, you're not looking for a coached group; you just want running buddies. So what they proposed was not what you were looking for. You wanted trimming shears, and they tried to sell you a lawnmower.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Resident Millennial
dwave- interesting info about coaching/team/pricing ... is yours completely individualized? our team is 250/year - that's all the team stuff plus coaching, but the coaching is pre-fab plans, that are no doubt good, but they're the same year after year and they have no individualization other than race goal information. (for ex, there is a fall XC training schedule, a marathon training schedule, a short road race circuit trainign schedule...)
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Yes. Actually, my coach has shifted away from giving training schedules altogether - if you're training for a marathon or a half, he'll give you a long run schedule. But otherwise he makes the call each week on what you're doing. For example, the Friday workout will be announced in the weekly news letter as a tempo between 5K and 10K in distance. I show up on Friday morning, and he tells me how far I'm going to run. And then we'll even talk during the workout. i.e. if the workout is a ladder of 400/800/1200/1600/1200/800/400, I'll do the first 3 intervals, and after the 1200 as I'm lining up for the next rep we'll decide whether that should be 1600 or just go straight to the 1200/800/400.
So very individualized. It does get more individual the longer you've been with him - I think people who are new to the team sometimes get frustrated when they're not getting as much individualization as those who have been with him for years. But...when you think about it, he can't really customize for you until he knows you, and that can take some time. I sub in for him sometimes, and with the runners whom I know, I feel very comfortable advising them to cut a workout short or to modify in some other way, because I can tell whether they're struggling or underchallenged. It's really hard to make that judgement call when you don't know the runner, and so in those cases you fall back on the default.
So what they proposed was not what you were looking for. You wanted trimming shears, and they tried to sell you a lawnmower.
Yep. That what I was confused about, their take it or leave it approach. Even when I explained to them I don't feel very safe on isolated trails. They said they might consider a discounted rate for just long runs. (????) My old store was yes you can pay for our plan, but feel free to drop in anytime during our runs. I already pay $$ for my coach, who I have been very happy with for years.
Anyway I thought about showing up at as a bandit to one of their group long runs and see what happens. I mean they don't own the path right?
Dad: Marathons are stooooopid! I have that feeling every time I am training for one. Like "why why why". That is amazing about your ability to do LR's on the day after a workout. I always for years have to gently go into a LR and recovery day or two after. Mmnnn. No wonder you have break neck speed!
Could be a bit awkward, though. I'm sensitive here because there was a person on our team who was kicked off the team several years ago for continuing inappropriate behavior. Rather than just go elsewhere, said person kept showing up to track workout and long runs, arguing similarly - that both the track and the long run route were public property, and that there was nothing to bar this person from coincidentally doing the same workouts we were doing at the same time and location.. It was a difficult, frustrating, and slightly scary situation that was ultimately remedied by conversations with the police.
Probably best not to follow a similar path
Hey all -- 11ish miles today, with the last 3 faster than the rest. I ran a route I hadn't done in awhile which was nice. And it wasn't raining! All in all, a good run.
Thanks for the input on the tempos for 5/10ks. I think I will try a tempo next week, and maybe throw some faster stuff in at the end too.
Darkwave: congrats on the 10k and 4th overall. Interesting about the adios 3s. I ran the April marathon last year in the adios 2, and really liked them. I didn't realize they changed them. Bummer.
Rozzie: Brewery run sounds like a good plan. Are there other running stores you can check out? It seems like Orlando should be big enough to support a couple, though LRS are definitely disappearing.
Dad: thanks for the input on the 5k/10k training. I think I will try to incorporate some of the longer intervals. Now to figure out what pace...
Catching up.
PJ. If I get this right, you are committed to a serious BQ attempt. No? Good luck.
McB -- nice that you remember. We were in CA (10 years) while the kids were in high school, and moved to Italy 6 months ago. The kids moved away, so we did too. DW is English and we both like Europe.
Dad -- you did the jogging stroller when the kids were small? Excellent! They guys who do (did?) the marathon podcast have a funny episode about stroller races. Basically, they are both elite runners with kids and after a few Parkrun 5Ks with strollers they were considering a stroller 5K race. Luckily common sense prevailed and they didn't got through with it (and no one crashed). I started running with the kids were doing HS XC, so no strollers for me.
Anybody run with dogs? One of our labradors cut in front of me when jogging and we crashed. I fell on her (she lived) and both ended up scratched from heat to toe. She is now an old dog who mostly sleeps.
Matt -- love the HR blow up story. If my HR hit 193, I would be dead.
Doesn't the treadmill just suck on all runs. Fast. Slow. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
Rovatti, DW, McB -- is indoor track fun? How does it compare to, say, college basketball?
OMR -- have you had an MRI? I did one years ago, and learned a lot (though it took three bone doctors for someone to read it correctly). It seems as though I've understood my knee(s) better since I did it.
My story. We are at the coast in southern France and I ran on FLAT SURFACE for the first time in six months. Good lord. That was normal. 5+ @ around 7. But it was flat. Lots of joggers. The French are skinny.
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
finished day 2 of skiing (this trip, anyway. back in CO visiting dad) and came in to watch millrose games
womens 3k and mile were awesome and very exciting. though mile was a little frustrating due to slow (let's be honest - "slow") pace/bunched up.men's mile was blistering and impressive but honestly a little bit less exciting just because there were fewer characters at play all at once. i was hoping blankenship would successfully chase down on the home stretch, but looks like he ran out of room.
some good examples of training buddies racing together and going 1-2 ... i wonder how that really feels. also thought it was interesting that (at least on the NBC broadcast) they interviewed emma first and for longer, and then aisha, despite their finishing positions...
DkW ~ Solid effort. Cold, hills, and tired legs is a tough combo!
Rozzie ~ Doubling mileage since August is very positive.
FB ~ Yay, flat! Must've felt delightful.
Oregon ~ YW. Just remember, you get what you paid for!
Speaking of paying $$$; I think I'd pay to NOT have to run w/ a group!
On coaching: creating workouts is easy; knowing when to put on brakes or hit the gas is tough.
Great day of running. Glad to see Emily Infeld win USATF XC. Hoya Saxa!
Good workout today: 5x1K @ 6:10 (a touch faster than planned, but controlled) w/ 1 minute recovery, then 5x300m just under 60 (~5:20 pace) w/ "full recovery". 11 total.
Now: date night!
DWave: haha! Don't worry that was just my very dry sense of humor coming out from the keyboard. I am way way too introverted to pull off something like that. I really enjoyed reading your race report. Downright inspiring actually where you embraced the idea of getting dropped as fantastic. I hope I get to be back at that mental toughness one day soon.
FB: Enjoy your trip! I will be in the Provence area for a week next month for our anniversary. I am a little stressed on finding decent running spots. Your post encouraged me.
For me today, easy 8. Core centered yoga. Tomorrow a big challenging longer tempo and strength building with weights after, then more yoga. Trying to let my easy days be very easy and hard days be hard. New experiment of 2018 for me.
pie man
Hopped in a 5k this morning for curiosity. Tapered down a bit and legs felt OK. Could only manage 19:50 so I don't know what that means. Course might have been worth 30 seconds? 40? Anyway, decent workout regardless. 7 OA but 4 AG so I'm actually a little salty. I would have worn the heck out the hat that was the prize. (They only did first overall so that's just about the only configuration that 7th doesn't get something). Silly HCS.
I just started showing up at my group's workouts. They don't have specific time standards so it was less of an issue that I kept showing up.
FB - figuring I start with a 1:35 first half and see what happens. I don't have a B goal other than sub 4 (my previous shamrock was 4:03 in a death march on a 75 degree day). If I want the sub 4 in 50 states I have to double back to Virginia because of theose 3 minutes. Otherwise it's counterproductive.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Problem Child
coaching/group runs Interesting to see how other places do it. I've considered a coach but I'm cheap. They range from $475/month (down to $350 after the third month) to free. I can't look at one because they now only have a facebook page. Local groups meeting on Saturdays have a couple canned training plans (long run, tempo, "intervals", etc.) and you figure out what to do. They also have Tuesday and Thursday group runs. Another group just posts up Wednesday speed workouts and three runs during the week (trails) and I'm sure they'd create a training plan if you told them a race. I'd join up because the founder is John Trent. I've considered getting a coach but I make improvements so I justify not paying for one. Plus I have you guys.
dad Interesting note on the long run. I forgot abut the 25% rule when planning my long run (I broke it) yesterday. I guess I could put a few more miles in today just to fix that. If I do another 10 it makes them about 21%...each.
dwave 20-30 minute tempo sounds painful. Is it around HM pace and not 5K pace? Asking for a friend.
As for "individuality" with coaching, I guess I understand that (Hey, I've known you two years vs. Hi we just met) and extend it to someone being comfortable with YOU filling in. Someone who has been there a few months might know it happens. Someone who is new might not understand it. Nice 10K.
rozzie $41.66/month doesn't seem bad. I'd say that's better than a gym membership. As for TRX....weeeeeeeeeeelll I've done one this year. I'm going to aim for M, W, F. It's easier to do that when I'm awake at 2:30 like last time. It might change when I stay home in a few weeks on FMLA. As for the brewery run, we have one here once a month. You might pick up a few friends after going to those. I skip them because they were always around noon. A 3 mile run at noon sounds horrible. MIL is fine but she's being a grandma. Wants to play with the kid when he needs a nap. Feeding him only 2 ounces and saying he's done because he might fall asleep after eating and that's no fun. Now she's holding him while he sleeps. Grandmothers...ugh.
RLK how was the snow? It was 67F this weekend so I'm assuming the inches we received have all but died off.
I kind of figured out cold running gear. I think I mostly got lucky though. 34-40F for a 2 hour window means it's cold. I tried hanging with a group but they started pushing 8:15 down to probably 7:45 pace and I wasn't having it. I didn't even want to do 8:30s but it didn't feel bad. One hill KILLED me. The downhill was nice and there were a lot of turns. Instructions said "LT Westwood" and thankfully I looked it up (they've been wrong before) and it's WestFIELD. If you knew the next few steps you'd be fine. If you were new to town you'd want to have your phone handy to figure out where you're at unless you read ahead. Street A eventually connects to Street B but if you're looking for Westwood you'll miss Street B. Probably taking today off. Step father said he was going to keg my beer and start drinking it because it's been there a month and his beer didn't come out right. I told him it wasn't his (rude?) and I'd be over to pick it up tomorrow.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
If we get to vote on coaches, my vote would be no. There's something great about a sport where the only real cost is shoes, and if you are lightweight and neutral, the shoes aren't even expensive. Plus, there's a lot to be said about wtf. You can't screw up your marriage, your kids or your job, but you can sure screw up your hobby (and spoil your pets) and have a great time. haha. I'm always wary of people with failed marriages and really well behaved pets.
PJ -- a pure qualifying run would be pretty cool. I'm not sure what a 19:50 tells about your fitness, but I don't think I could do it. But the Runner's World predictor seems to like it, and projects a 3:10 marathon. So I guess you're good; home and dry.
Rozzie -- Provence is probably as bad as Tuscany, though the drivers are less crazy. Basically, we're doomed.
Fun note. I got AirPods for my birthday and they're great for running. Light, and you don't even know they're there, and they don't fall out. Nice.