Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Problem Child
I did my first interval workout that's part of a definite plan this morning. It's nice to have that sense of direction. I need to make notes of what such workouts are going to be, though, rather than just running it based on watch prompts. That way I can manually split everything myself. It was also my first time on the track since it was refinished. Nice, springy, artificial surface, which is a definite upgrade. My bond dollars at work!
Explain. Are you saying to make notes of "6x800 with 400 jog" or "3 minutes hard with 1 minute easy recovery"? I never liked manual splits (just look at my RB) because I don't want to do math during a split but I also don't want to cut it short. At the same time, I sometimes question the timed intervals from Garmin. I think it's too convenient I run a 6:30-6:37 pace but each repeat is 0.61 miles. Seems odd. I also don't exactly love the pace for Garmin intervals as it sometimes says I'm doing a 7:20 and then beeps saying I'm going too fast. Maybe you could make a working in Garmin Connect and just put "until lap press" for each. Set number of repeats and you manually split everything.
Ace Coffee IV....well I guess if you stab people with needles all day long you kind of know what you're doing. In a previous live I wasn't an injection specialist so I have little to no experience.
DW I think the closes I can come to that by the house is a 3 mile loop. I ran it quite often leading up to CIM 2016. So much so I knew the mile markers and vividly remember thinking how glad I'd be not to run that loop for a while after the race. Glad you're getting better. I'm so glad I don't have asthma.
Fully planned to do some fast "tempo"-ish miles on lunch today. Kind of wish I had (maybe 2x10 minutes) but I will save those for closer to race day. Maybe I'll do some technique drills, or short hill sprints tomorrow like the plan says to. Maybe I can use the steep hill nearby then end with a few miles. I DID send a hiking "course" to a friend who wants to start hunting. I told him he could hike it on his lunch instead of sitting at the desk. It helped we were talking about Cameron Hanes on the drive in to work that day. If you want to do everything you're going to have to find time to do it all. You can eat lunch while you walk.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Mother of Cats
If you want to do everything you're going to have to find time to do it all. You can eat lunch while you walk.
Truth is spoken here.
Oregon - Shocking, isn't it? Especially when you hear people talking to RD's after a race about how their course was too long. Hopefully the knee is ok tomorrow.
The one that really gets me is when people say that their watch measured wrong because they "didn't run the tangents." A Garmin or other GPS device is not accurate enough to measure which side of the street you are on, let alone determine whether you ran the tangents.
In my own experience, my personal Garmin is reasonably accurate and reliable when I run in a straight line in a location that is open to the sky. It overestimates distance when I run on the track, underestimates it when I'm running on a winding bike path, and is crazy unreliable one way or the other when I'm running under a highway, near tall buildings, or doing short repeats.
I'll rely on it for mile splits when running on Hains Point or the Towpath (straight line, open to the sky), but I give it a bit grain of salt for shorter repeats or turning courses.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Thanks all for the well wishes for Saturday.
Dad - Yes, I did end up running that first interval a bit too fast, and I probably suffered at the end because of it. Since these were cruise intervals, recoveries were short, just 2 minutes.
Brew - I have a 2x2 mile cruise interval session with 2 minute rest in between a little bit less than 2 weeks before my goal race . Maybe I'll be in better shape then. I do most of these longer intervals on a bike path that runs next to the BART tracks next to where I live. It's nice because it's pretty flat, it has lights, and there are no stop lights or real turns for more than 3 miles. There is also a bike path down by the bay with similar conditions (no lights though). Sounds like you have a relatively "normal" life with a baby in the house.
Keen - As for a "marathon" in the Olympics, try to watch the 50 km men's cross country skiing race. It's 2+ hours that separate the men from the boys. We had this guy from close to my hometown in Norway who could always find that extra little bit of energy at the end to win these races. The world championships in 2015 had one of the best and toughest 50k races ever. Keep an eye out for the guy with bib number 4 in this clip that shows the last 10 minutes of the race, especially at 6:48 and 7:30, and the final finish.
(sorry, Norwegian commentary, but you can tell they are excited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWsqLsRaMQ.
I also run any interval workouts using the workout function on my Garmin, with automatic laps, except for when I'm on a track. There I always use manual laps since GPS and tracks don't work well together.
Darkwave - Good to hear you're feeling better!
Oregon - Good plan to take it easy if it doesn't feel right.
Dex - WIll be interesting to see Friday night how it goes with the women's cc race. The Americans have come a very long way the last few years.
I will do an easy 4 or 5 miles tonight, rest tomorrow, and hopefully my legs will have recovered ok by Saturday.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Speed Surplus
Whoa, Dex is back!
runethechamp - I went a few pages back but couldn't figure out what's happening on Saturday that everyone is wishing you luck for.
Brew - It's been so long that I'm not sure I ever congratulated you on the addition to your family! So, congrats!
Late post of last week. Best one in a while. (I didn't really drink 11 beers during the Super Bowl.)
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Cobra Commander Keen
I mostly mean the distances and pace/time for the repetitions. Some of the workouts have different length repetitions (200's then 400's), with different paces and different quantities. I'd have a hard time keeping all this straight when running if I tried remembering it all.
I like the "until lap press" idea. I can keep the overall structure of the workout on my watch and use manual laps. That way I only have to remember the length and paces for the repeats and the watch still keeps track of what step I should be on. *off to update training calendar in Garmin Connect*
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
rune Well THAT narrows down where you live in the Bay Area.
I have run the path next to Levi Stadium from South of where it starts to the park North of Levi. Fun run. Only a few intersections to cross but for the most part pancake flat and uninterrupted. The funny part was when my wife was tracking me (I mostly sent her the link so she knew when I was coming back) my Uncle asked when I'd be back and where I was at. I wish I was there when she told him the first time because when HE told me his reaction it was priceless. Something about being around 7 miles away from his house was like being in the next city.
DW/oregon/Keen My Garmin 235 is the most accurate form of measurement. It uses GLONASS and satellites from out space to track my location in real time. The analog measuring system is outdated and needs to be replaced since we are in digital times. Race distances need to be measured accordingly. Just ask Max about race distance and GPS. His 200 miler last year was 240. I don't think he was allowed to complain. I will admit I DO trust the distance of my watch more than anything. I don't have another (acceptable) alternative form. I am a little afraid of Chicago for the simple fact my GPS won't work and I'll have to figure out my pace based of the 5K marks, or I'll have to hang with 3:05 and slowly fade over the last little bit...or train harder because nobody cares.
Olympics that 50K thing Rune mentioned should be interesting. I never considered a 50K to be interesting until recently. I usually liked watching the ski/shoot/ski some more thing and curling (weird I know). Growing up with the X games I actually don't like seeing most of those sports in the Olympics and I get the whole argument of "If we let 'them' in who else do we let in? back flipping snowmobiles?" Well you DO allow back flipping humans with metal on their feet. I'd say flipping a snowmobile is a little bit more medal worthy. Oddly enough I don't think I ever care who wins in the Olympics. Even if it's Sean White or Michael Phelps.
EDIT: I also don't care they have to pay taxes on their winnings. Just like I don't care recruits from the Naval Academy and ARMY typically don't get drafted into the NFL because they're required to serve for 4 years.
Fun fact: A snowmobile is called a snow MACHINE in Alaska. I'm sure it's the same in the land of 1,000 lakes. I only pick those two states because a lot of people in Alaska sound like they came from miny soda.
SC - I guess all the goal races go in the goal race thread. Either way, I'm racing a half tomorrow as a tuneup to my spring goal race in late March.
Brew - IF you stalk my Strava links you will see that I live in Berkeley. Flat to the west, hills to the East.
Keen - For my road intervals I often program in my goal paces in the workouts as well (I don't use the calendar, just the workout functions). +- 5 seconds per mile around my goal pace seems to work fine.
I must have eaten something funny yesterday so I only ran one mile before I realized I had to stop to avoid a complete disaster. Called my wife to come pick me (and the dog) up since I wasn't even sure if I would make it home in time if I walked . Everything feels normal today so I think I'll go for an easy 3 this afternoon to shake my legs loose before tomorrow.
Biathlon. You've gotta love an event that features XC skiing, rifle shooting and HR. It's an endurance runner's dream. You are jogging along and your HR is at 85%, and you start asking yourself -- can I shoot a rifle accurately at a target 160 ft away. Visions of WWII in Scandinavia waft across your mind, and you ask yourself -- should I slow down until my HR is 80%, so I can shoot more accurately, or should I hold the line at 85% and roll the dice.
Great sport.
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
Rune - For stand-alone workouts I do have some just loaded by themselves. I like that I can make a workout, put it on my Garmin calendar and get prompted to do said workout when I start one of my running profiles that day. It keeps me from having to search through my list of saved workouts.
FB - I'm a fan of biathalon as well, and for that reason. There really isn't anything else out there for endurance events that involves something other than "Can I hold this effort for xxx distance?".
Locally there is a group that holds "run-n-guns" twice a year (winter and summer). Either 5k or 10k run/obstacle course plus rifle & pistol match all rolled in to one. No aid stations, carry everything you think you need by yourself. For those not familiar with these, proper safety is STRICTLY enforced. I've never done one myself, but it certainly is interesting.
I'm really sick; up the last two nights coughing, and in bed all day today. So I figured that I should just run faster today, so that I wasn't out in the cold for too long. That makes sense. Right?
4@7:35.
pie man
Gwen Jorgensen just ran what for 5,000? Indoors????
11:11 3,000 (recent)
PJ - I saw. Crazy. Wow. Guess she made the right choice. And perhaps she'll focus on 5k-10K, rather than the marathon.
FB - your logic is understandable. And apologies if you caught what I had over the internet.
Olympics. I've realized that how much sports appeal to me depends on whether I think I would enjoy participating in the sport. Figure skating, snowboarding, downhill skiing, ski jumping - those all look really fun. Curling looks like housework, and I hate housework. Cross-country skiing looks like an exercise in frustration similar to that experienced anytime one attempts to go uphill with skis. And speed-skating, both short and long track, makes me dizzy and my back hurt.
17 miles for me this morning. Did a "4-3-2-1" workout - segments of 4, 3, 2, and 1 miles at MP with 1 mile recovery (around 9 minute pace). It went decently, assisted by absolutely perfect weather (mid-40s, little wind, just the right level of humidity, overcast). Splits were:
4 mile: 27:15 (6:50/6:48/6:50/6:47 - 6:49 pace);
3 mile: 20:22 (6:49/6:48/6:45 - 6:47 pace)
2 mile: 13:33 (6:48/6:45 - 6:47 pace)
1 mile: 6:45
Definitely still feelling last week's cold some - I was a bit sluggish at first, but worked out of it. Legs felt surprisingly strong at the end, so that was good. Followed with some light injury prevention work and a bit of easy swimming for recovery.
Gwen Jorgensen is a stud. I've seen her training around Nike a few times with a group -- they just fly.
runthechamp: How did your race go?
Brewing: I have a 235 also, but it loses signal in areas with lots of trees, and it sometimes just gets cranky and is off. I run the same 5 mile loop nearly every day and some days it beeps at 5 miles in one spot, and other days I have to run another .2 to get there -- no idea why.
fb: I get your logic. Hope you feel better.
DW: That sounds like a great workout. Was it one mile recovery after each segment?
10 miles for me this morning with a faster friend, so probably a little speedier than I needed to be. It felt good though.
Oregon - My race went great. I hit the pacing right on the button and came in at 1:34:37 with very even pace throughout. RR below and link to Strava for those who care: https://www.strava.com/activities/1401144373/overview
Everything went smoothly before the race, waking up at 5:30 (despite watching Olympics until midnight), breakfast, coffee, bathroom, all that. We had beautiful weather, sunny and calm and cool at the start, although I could feel the sun warming well once it got up. And contrary to the info on the website of the race there was a pacer there for 1:35 when I showed up this morning! I told him I'd hang on him for a long time and thanked him for being there before the race even started. I still don't get people who line up all the way at the front of the race who clearly have no intentions whatsoever to run among the faster people, not even in the beginning. There were a couple of them here who lined up alongside the 1:35 pacer and they basically started out the race by walking.
According to my watch the pacer started a few seconds fast so I just made sure to stay behind him and see how things panned out. I kept and eye on my HR and it seemed a bit high in the beginning but then it didn't seem to move for the next few miles (showed 164 every time I looked to check) so I figured I was fine. Several times the first few miles I was thinking it almost felt too easy but I kept reminding myself what my goal was and that there was no reason to be impatient.
So overall there wasn't too much excitement until right after mile 5. The path where this race is held crosses over several little channels and right before we got to one of the small wooden bridges I kicked into the ground and tumbled. I caught myself with my hands, managed to not scrape my knees, and got right up again. At this time little group I ran with was all behind me and the narrow bridge prevented anybody from passing me. Somebody asked if I was ok, I mumbled a "yes, thanks" or something like that and kept going. My hands were in rough shape and hurting a bit but I figured I could take care of that after the race.
The pacer did a great job, but it was funny to run next to him. He was running with really short steps and had kind of a limp (like Lionel Sanders in Ironman Kona last year), and when we passed mile 6 he was huffing and puffing pretty bad so I was sure he was done. I decided to pass him and go my own way, and after I passe another guy I was basically alone after mile 7. I thought I was going faster but my splits show I was just putting in some extra work to keep the pace up. At mile 9 I started to notice it was getting more difficult to keep my pace up, and at mile 11 I was slowing down a hair. And then, with a mile left, the 1:35 pacer shows up with me again. I guess the rest of the group had slowed down enough and he decided to help me out, and I have no idea how he caught up with me again after the way he sounded a few miles earlier. Either way, I more or less held his back, had to work hard to do it at this time, and managed to squeeze out a small kick at the end.
Since the course was an out and back course I knew it would measure 0.1 miles or so long on my watch so even if my watch was showing 7:10 average pace I didn't feel 100% confident I would get under 1:35. I was very happy when I saw the timer on the last stretch of the race and realized I would make it.
So this makes this my 3rd well paced race on this course, but I attribute a lot of that to the pacers I've run with. Earlier years I've left them after 3 miles, this time around my pace was just about right for the entire race. I think that if I had tried to leave the pace group early in the race I probably would have blown up somewhere towards the end, so I'm happy about staying calm and not being impatient. It's also a good reminder to me what a HM is supposed to feel like at different stages of the race. During the race I felt like I could have gone faster for the first 7 miles but in the end this turned out to be pretty much exactly right pacing.
Hi All. I skimmed the last few pages. Nice discussion about marathons in the winter Olympics. Of course it's a bit of a slippery slope, if you will pardon the expression. Most running events would be better in winter, except maybe the sprints.
Workouts? I like to do the math in advance, and know what my time per lap should be. If things slow down for no change in perceived effort, I know it's time to stop, or at least try an extended recovery. Off the track, I either do MP runs or fartleks by time, so who cares about being super-accurate.
Rune - It sounds like you are talking about the Ohlone Greenway. It's not bad, but I find all the road crossings a little irksome. If you go early enough in the morning you don't have to stop much though. For no-stops goodness it's hard to beat the Bay Trail. It's 10 miles from Emeryville Marina to the old Ford Factory in Richmond, and you can run a 20 mile round trip without having to stop at all.
Yeah, I've been neglecting you guys. So busy, but trying to get a bit more balance in my life now. What have I been up to? I had to take about six weeks off with an IT band problem in November/December. It kept me out of CIM. I did some core work with the time I was saving, and resting seems to have done the trick. I am still not as fast as I was before, but seem to be slowly getting into the neighbourhood. I ran a rather disappointing 15K two weeks ago, then a more satisfying half last week (Kaiser Half) in 1:35:36 or thereabouts. They gave me gun time presumably because my chip did not read at the start. That's the slowest half I've done in a while, but still pleasing in the circumstances. I ran it five minutes faster last year, but I was at the top of my game then. One of my track group ran with me from mile 3 to the finish and was grateful for the pacing. She got a PR, which was pleasing. So was getting 2nd AG.
I'm running Napa Valley Marathon in two weeks. One fun thing about that race is that they let you prep your own drink bottles, elite-style. I'm dithering between putting a fairly stiff mix of Gu Roctane in there, or simply taping a gel to each bottle to give me the option.
I've been doing some trail running and hiking too, but more about that some other time.