Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Resident Millennial
brew- ha, 10 minute drive = 1 block = 2 second bicycle ride = 20 second walk.. this is how i make my transportation choices
oh wow, is all your speedwork on roads then? yeah you could def do that workout on roads. i think because we do track stuff so often, it's drilled into us that we're running faster paces when we get down to the track.
nick- i know what you mean! we usually spend the last minute of the tempo mile figuring out what the next track rep's pace/time should be. don't undersell the importants of workouts w/ pace changes though - there are some good workouts alternating slower and faster paces which help your muscles learn to change gears, which is helpful in races.
that sounds like a hard tempo!! good luck.
eliz- "My goal race is New England in April. Very solid week of training for you. Interesting to see the Daniels workouts." hmm. the Bangor Marathon?
dad- to be fair, we have a 20m jog btwn the track and the road surface we use for the miles, more 30 seconds than 3 minutes. but yes, it is our coach's adaption of that one. love me an OG workout!
oregon- i just watched that race too!!!! holy crap. there is currently a LRC thread about "is XC skiing harder than running? bc look at how dead skiers are after they finish their race" ... and i think it is. what a finish!!
usually my wednesday recovery run is at 630am, so just 10 hours after finishing our hard workout. not ideal, but neither is combining training and a full time job, right? today i had the gift of doing the recovery run at 4:30pm ... it felt so much better!! the 630am version is a painful slog.
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
pie man
The wheel of mid Atlantic weather landed on forking hot yesterday. Not warm. Hot. Not ready for that at all.
We've been doing our speedwork this winter off the track in a park, mostly on a mile loop. It's certainly good work, but I agree it does feel different than doing it on the track. Occasionally it's a good thing, of course, but I miss it.
That a time trial or race I spied on strava Pesto?
I had the rare opportunity to weigh myself on Tuesday (skipping track let me crash my sister's team for trivia and she has a scale in her apartment). And I am actually down a few pounds, which I didn't expect. Not quote down to where I was when I ran the PRs, but better than even a couple of mo's ago. Which makes me feel a little better about going for it next month.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
K77 - I say yes to the mittens too. I have lighter and more insulated pairs for both running and biking. We had some mornings with temps in the teens in January. I ran with a group and others were complaining about cold hands. I was fine in my mittens. My only advice to them was to take their fingers out of the glove fingers and make fists.E78 - Big miles and good workoutsKeen, Oregon and all y'all doing treadmill workouts - nice work. I almost feel like I'm missing out by not using a TM. Weather here is pretty much always runnable.Oregon - ditto on the women's XC race. That was fun to watch and a heck of a sprint to the finish.rlk - I never like an evening run followed by a morning run, even if they're both easy. But yes, job, life, family, etc.
Last, but not least, me - Yesterday was 5 x 1200 on the track. I was slower than I would have liked, but okay with it. I think the big weekend (15 Fri; 10 race Sat; 14 Sun) was still causing some fatigue. Today was supposed to be 14, but scheduling wise I'm swapping that out with tomorrow's 8. And I'm even breaking that up to 4 this morning and another 4 or so tonight.
keen: I usually take a book or snack for whichever kid is in the stroller. If I don't they ask me way too many question, particularly when going uphill and breathing heavily. On this particular run, my son made it two pages and then fell asleep.
elizabeth: you are crushing it right now! keep it up. Gld to hear you're handling the workload well.
FB: I don't have any advice for you, but can empathize a little bit. I have concerns about my form, in particular the lift of my trailing foot as well. Watching elites, I'm amazed they almost always kick their own butt. I do form drills, but may need hip flexor strengthening as well. Looking forward to reading the article you posted. I'll be trying dwave's recs as well.
Katia: when you say ran on the TM "with the gym group" is this an organized run on adjacent TMs? Sounds like it would make TM running less miserable. Maybe they should make a 12ft wide TM so people could run together??
rlk: I'm intrigued and want to try many of the workouts people post on here...but not the Michigan Miles. That sounds miserable and the pacing alone would give me a headache. Well done!
PJ: now is the time in the Eastern US to hope that random cold snap falls on your weekend race. For me, hopefully its 3/25! I did have all the windows open at my house yesterday, which was nice.
Matt: I'd be fatigued too with that weekend of running! What does your 5x1200 typically look like in regards to pace and rest? Just curious.
My schedule is a little different this week due to long run on Sunday instead of Saturday.
I had 12x200s yesterday at an avg of 38s. How is it that I've ran most my life and when I run short intervals on the track I still feel like I'm learning how to run fast?
Random question (my imaginary friends get most of my random thoughts/questions because I don't get a weird look from them): At what point does a runner become "A Marathoner"? Is this even a thing?
Scheduled for 6 easy today. Planning on doing it during lunch.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
On the road in MN
RLK - yeah I mix up paces quite a bit - but just not in a very focused way. Lot of mid tempo strides, end of run sprints transitioning to race pace...etc. I guess a few weeks ago I did alternating 3min at maybe 7k RP - followed by 4-5min GMP or a touch faster. (for like 30 or 32 min) - which was quite a bit harder then I imagined when I wrote it up...lol I used to do a similar back-to-back workout at 8-9pm...to 5:30am recovery run... I used to like how my legs didn't have time to stiffen or feel bad... just noodly. haha
Matt - that is one heck of a weekend you had! nice! I can't imagine intervals after 3 days well into the double digits. a 4 + 4 today sounds like a wise plan.
Eliz - I think the 1min on/off rotation seems like something I should probably work into the rotation. I see a lot of road bikers using 30 to 1min intervals veeery often! Plus reading quite a bit regarding the use of short repeated intervals with short recv allowing vo2max and lactate benefits even though the work interval is much shorter then typically used (never return to baseline...and 'stack' until the end). But not quite as tough (mentally or on body) as hard 4min Vo2max intervals.
ACE - "Marathoners" - hmmm - not sure - maybe if you race the distance almost exclusively.... i'd say at least a few during life, ideally maybe 2 or more per year. still not sure its a legit "thing"... lol
Pepperjack - weird to think about not weighing self regularly - since I started training significatnly (~2014) I think I have weighed in at least weekly (track on Garmin) - either as part of a weight loss goal, muscle building goal, or just trying to stave of training weight loss now that i'm at a solid weight.
Well managed 7.8 this morning on the TM - didn't' get in as much tempo/threshold as hoped (30-35') - but went pretty well. 2wu, 4mi(27') at 6:35ish@1-2%ish and then a little cooldown before having to cut it short (bathroom). Was mad about having to cut it short - so went back to TM and knocked out a 3x mix pace random sprints - 30-60sec of ~5:45 and ~45sec at SST to MP - and ~45sec EZ.
Heart rate in Tempo section seemed decent considering the heat in Gym... within first 9min HR was at 170 (87% of mx) then around half way @172 (88%) and towards end floating in 174/175 (90%) - aerobically-cardio wise it looks solid maybe.
I def. need to get a pair of decent mittens - wearing my old snowboard goretex gloves are ok - but having to keep fingers in is weird with the glove kinda flopping around. Plus XC or bike mittens seem like they would be a bit easier to wash and dry...etc.
5k: 19:29 Oct'17 26.2: 4:03 Oct'15 3:22 Grandmas June'17 Upcoming: Grandmas Marathon June'18
Ace: In my mind a marathoner devotes 4 months preparing for that distance, hence, once you are in that mode and run the race, you can call yourself one. Even if it's once a year. If you haven't done (or train for) one in a couple of years, you probably don't fit.
There are caveats, if you race more often (love/perform better) another distance, then you might be called by that, like ultrarunners that jump occasionally to the marathon, or HM runners that just want to complete the Borington challenge.
Mediocre tempo yesterday for me, 10K @4:17/km total 14K. Dead legs from the hilly long and bad conditions with wind, pedestrian traffic (high school end of classes!), minor elevation and sidewalks with puddles/and snow banks
fb: I hear you on the tight hip flexors, etc. Thanks for the link, I failed the pencil test (although I don't think my arms cross my body when I run). And who can get their elbow to their heel when doing a forward lunge??? Not me, that's for sure.Dad: Hmm...I made it closer to 90' yesterday, so there's been 'some' improvement. But it's pretty minimal.
Hip FLexors: OMR, I too can't get my elbow to my heel in that position (or about any position). I'm still not exactly sure what it is instructing me to do, I just know it hurts to try and do it.
Cobra Commander Keen
Ace - Props for bringing books along. Most of the kiddos I see in strollers are glued to a screen of some sort. Also, I envy your weather! Of course I'll be cursing that same weather in a couple months, so there's that as well. I would assume one becomes a marathoner by completing a marathon. I could also see the case to restrict this to those who put in solid training and a fair race-appropriate effort (all specific to the individual) into it, rather than just walking 26point2 in 8 hours. 38 sec 200's? Geez, you're getting fast.
PJ - Congrats on taking it easy on the scale. Which reminds me, I think mine is dying. *off to amazon*
Matt - After a weekend like that it's not surprising you were a little slow on the workout.
Nick - Nice workout, despite the break.
Mittens - I LOVE mine. Close enough to wind/waterproof, and good to at least single digits with the addition of a hand warmer.
Someone who knows more about track workouts than I do: Workout is 12x 200m, 6x 400, equal distance recovery. What's the reason behind the 400's being done at a faster pace than the 200's (5 sec/mi faster)?
Knocked out the above workout on the treadmill this morning. Had to set auto-lap for the intervals (pace/distance coming from Stryd), and working the keypad to set paces for the intervals and recovery was interesting.
More sorry weather. Sleet earlier this morning, now rain. In true Oklahoma fashion this will all be a solid sheet of ice come morning. Given my compensating coffee consumption, I need to invest in an automatic grinder. Or does hand grinding coffee somehow count as cross training? Does Strava have an activity category for that?
I have a 15k next weekend, which I plan on using as an all-out fitness test since I haven't actually raced anything since late April last year. There is some construction at the start/finish for the usual race course, so alternates are being looked at. We're still waiting on certification for the course, but what looks to be the currently favored option would be run largely in a direction that turns the annual majority headwind/tailwind into a majority crosswind, which would be nice.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
?
Ace: I think marathoner status accrues when you've finished one and submit the entry for your second. Following Dr. Sheehan's dictum that the difference between the jogger and the runner is an entry blank. I don't know when you lose it.
CdrK: I think Oklahoma miles count double. Wind, heat, cold, and humidity - you have it all. For me two years in Tulsa was enough! 15K is a great distance, can't get enough of those.
Katia (and Ace): Quite interested in this gym group running. Our gym has a set of nice Woodway treadmills marked "Team Training" but I don't know who uses it. Marathoners maybe.
I just watched a replay of the women's relay cross country sprint race, where the U.S. won their first cross country gold medal ever -- it was awesome. The announcers were losing their minds -- just fantastic.
+1
I told my wife it was "thrill of victory" worthy. For you young people, that's a reference to the CLASSIC opening to WWoS, as in a time before ESPN.
PJ ~ Sooooo many people out in the beautiful (but not for running) weather yesterday, almost all overheating.
Ace ~ The obvious answer is when you cross the finish line of a marathon. A better answer is probably when you self-define the marathon as your primary training focus (and actually do it!).
Jealous of the Woodway TM access.
Duke -- good luck with the cardio thing. Take care and listen to what they say. :-)
PJ -- nice news on the weight. That sounds like a sign of good things to come. Fit and lean is a good combination.
Weather -- wtf. We're having the winter from hell (something about Siberia) and I'm sick of running in cold rain, And it's warm in Chicago and hot in Baltimore. Give me a break.
Matt -- built up fatigue makes sense.
Ace -- yep. The whole form thing is pretty interesting. Watching elites is amazing, and you're thinking that you could never get your body into that position in the first placer, let alone run. But I guess improving (if not reaching perfection) is a good thing. Still doing lots of hip flexor stretches, an they're getting pretty sick of it.
Coaches -- thanks for the good ideas. I'm going to both. Funny, but "strides" were part of my regular schedule 4+ years ago. Which is both good news and bad news. I've started throwing in good form, fast running into the mix again. That's good. But then I remember that I was doing strides in the past, when my race photos showed that I had really tight hip flexors. Hmmmmm. This is a good puzzle.
One thought from the Fitzgerald article. To build up form, either run tired or run fast. You don't get to run tired that often, so I guess it's time to learn to run fast/properly.
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
Jogger
Max - I am here. Now what do I do?
Mile 5:24 3k 11:01 5k 19:01 10k 38:34 hm 1:26:57 fm 3:02:33
I used to be a runner, in case you folks forgot about me. Now I am a full time cat parent and jogger.
Mother of Cats
SAM!!!!! - welcome back. Cat parents/hobby joggers welcome here.
Catching up from the last page:
E78 - that does look like a tough combo back to back. Good news that you found it so manageable.
Oregon - being able to play with workouts does sound fun. That is one of the few negatives to being coached - not having that flexibility.
+1 I told my wife it was "thrill of victory" worthy. For you young people, that's a reference to the CLASSIC opening to WWoS, as in a time before ESPN.
I remember that! Complete with the massive downhill ski crash that was the backdrop for "the agony of defeat."
RLK - more rest is nice - makes the recovery more recovery I agree about the difficulties of combining work and training. It's not just about time crunch, but about life stress and the ability to recover.
PJ - what are you going for at Shamrock? I don't think you've stated. BQ?
Matt - very nice modification of your schedule to account for fatigue. A lot of people struggle with that, so it's very nice to see.
R+BN - we have very similar HRs at tempo (can't remember if we've discussed that before. Very nice tempo. I always liked tempoing on the treadmill.
Jaime - I enthusiastically second your definition of a marathoner. Sorry about the non-quite-what-you-wanted tempo. Sure seems like there's solid reasons for it.
Hmmm... with equal distance recovery, I really don't know. Possibly the 200s warm you up for the harder 400s? Either that or a typo.
Cross-country skiing - I've gotten more into it. Just because it's the closest winter olympics sport to marathoning. Still like figure skating better. Figure skating looks fun; cross-country skiing uphill looks awful. My quads hurt watching it. I'm guessing downhills don't pound skiiers the same way they do runners?
****
Yoga+8.5 "miles" pool-running this morning; 4.5 "miles" pool-running at night.
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