2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 582 times)

 

On LRs, I'd just point out that context matters. I get a lot of bang for my buck doing a hilly, two hour (14 miles) "long" run the day after a bunch of tough intervals, which usually results in an 11 mile day. Seems to work for non-marathon training.

Definitely. This is the cumulative fatigue theory, which I completely agree with. I know a couple of guys who artificially do a short run, and then take a day off before their LR so that they are doing it on fresh legs. A LR starting with tired legs is the best thing you can do to simulate the last 20 miles, not the first 20 miles.

Which (thanks Dad) is why my pretty easy LR on Saturday (after four light days) is probably a false positive. haha.

OMR -- yay, and good luck. I hope you are starting to build forward momentum and strength.

 

Yowza. You looking to break 3?

Eventually, yes.  I think I'm in shape to do it, if I get a perfect day and a fast course and the stars align. Hence my using ~6:50 as my marathon pace in training.  However, since I'm running Botulism, I acknowledge that the stars likely won't align, and I don't have a great shot at sub-3 this go round.

Still, you train at your current level of fitness, and 6:50 seems realistic, based both on how it feels and my half-marathon time at Houston (85:43).  Double your half time and add 8-10 minutes, right?

Limits on long runs.  I think there's a very human tendency to infer absolute prescriptions from general concepts.  I agree with the idea that at some point the duration of the run means that the costs and risks outweigh the gains.  I'm not sure that there's a strict line for that of 2 hours or 2.5 hours or of any specific duration; I also suspect that the line differs from person to person.

Cumulative fatigue.  I'm always shocked that people describe a 16 as being much harder if you've run 10 the day before.  I guess that's because I've never rested the day before a long run, so it's never occurred to me that others do.  I almost always do 10 easy.

Oregon - which 8K?  I'll update the chart. Everyone else, please go ahead and call out to me when you're racing, so I can keep that updated.  I'm also linking blog reports in the chart where they are available, BTW.

10 miles total for me today.  5.5 very easy to yoga (9:21), yoga, and then 4.5 very easy home (8:54) plus drills and strides. 

Last week was 61 miles of running plus 22 "miles" pool-running.
M: 5.5 very easy to yoga (9:29), yoga, then 4.5 very easy home (9:05)
T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 2000, 4x800 in 7:32, 3:04, 3:03, 3:03, 3:04.  Also injury prevention work and recovery swimming.
W: 10 miles very easy to the gym (9:24), upper body weights and core, then 2 miles very easy home (9:01) plus drills and strides.
Th: yoga and 8.5 "miles" pool-running in the morning; 4.5 "miles" pool-running at night.
F: 7.5 miles very easy to the gym (9:13), light upper body weights, core, DIY yoga, then 3.5 miles very easy home (8:47) plus drills and strides.
Sa: 16 miles, including 2x5 miles at MP with one mile recovery - 34:14 (6:55/6:56/6:48/6:50/6:45 - 6:51 average) and 33:55 (6:48/6:50/6:48/6:45/6:44 - 6:47 average).  Also recovery swimming.
Su:  9 "miles" pool-running.

katia It helps whem NeRP and DW nap together. It's even MORE beneficial when he's taking a nap ever hour and a half however they're inconsistent. At best. I'm sure when he's older I'll be taking him on runs with me hoping he wont jump out of the stroller or reorganize it.

jaime I have the 235. I am 95% sure it bases my paces off my arm swing indoors. I might be able to use the foot pod and see if that works better but I don't trust it when I bring it up to read the display and it says 11:40 after 3 seconds when it just said 9:05. I didn't think of the footpod until now though. Mostly because I haven't run this much on a treadmill. It might be better to just go off the treadmill distance and train for a few extra miles. Using this I was running much slower. 6.4 mph with a 2-3% incline. 6.7 mph at a 2% incline seems fast but I run 8:30-ish outside. IDK.

keen He is doing about an hour nap every hour an a half during the day. Average. Overnight seems to be 2.5-3.5 hours. I'm trying to get some kind of a schedule figured out so his night time naps go longer for DW and his daytime naps are a little easier to plan things around. If he sleeps for an hour at 9:00 every morning I can totally wear him while we go grocery shopping. IF he sleeps 20 minute here, 2 hours there, and however he wants overnight it's a little harder on everyone. Saturday was rough, Sunday was easier.

long run time Hanson's caps their runs at 16 miles for their advanced plan. Their logic is similar to Daniel's 2nd edition. Elite athletes would cover 20 miles in about two hours which makes sense for the 20 mile run. Take the same effort, put it at a slower pace and you're now talking about shorter races. If someone is a 10:00/mile long run pace they're going to be out running for over 3 hours. Makes no sense. Someone doing 6 minute pace is doing 2 hours for a 20 mile run. There comes a point where marathon long runs start becoming more detrimental than beneficial. I like 16 mile runs at an 8:30 pace. 2:16:00. Not too far over 2 hours to ruin my day or training, not a 3 hour run. here is a long run I did for my first marathon (training sucked) where I ended up with a 3:56 marathon. It was my first marathon. I wouldn't recommend ANYONE run for 2 hours and 41 minutes to train for a marathon. EVER.

SC those 14 weeks are going to FLY by. Have you set a schedule of "goal miles" or something like that? 10 weeks to go hit 45 miles. 6 weeks to go hit 50 miles. 5 weeks to go hit 45 miles. etc. might help keep the miles high. I know it's hard for me to stay motivated for Chicago and it's in October but I'm trying to keep up miles and speed so it isn't just a waste of time to go there and run casually.

Squeaked in 36.7 miles last week and 2 TRX workouts. I thought I was ahead of 40 miles but I added a run to the calendar that apparently added itself later so Saturday I thought I was doing good with 7.5 and Sunday I felt awesome thinking 7.5 was the goal and I did 10. Turns out I was about 3.5 miles short of 40.

Treadmill (felt sluggish and slow and I wanted to quit) today for about an hour and a TRX workout. TRX seems to be going well because some exercises aren't as difficult anymore so I shortened a few rest periods. I can see why these should be done right after a run. It's a whole different type of workout doing a run then a bodyweight workout vs. run then 4 hours later workout. Hanson's philosophy kind of defaults to "well if you can't follow a run with the workout getting it in where you can isn't the worst thing in the world." Those are my words not theirs.

Shamrock Run (8k) - March 18

Beaverton Half -- June 3

Tunnel Light Marathon (tentative) -- Sept 16

DarkWave - my grandmas marathon goal at the moment is probaly 3:14... just don't see getting the endurance to go BQ at the moment.

Long Run: I'd say no limit on actual time really - but i'd definitely limit to 20 or 3hrs in middle phases of build up or when starting your Marathon journey.  Eventually going to 21-22... or 90% of goal time.   Eventually maybe up intensity of some of the 20 milers... or go a hair further in that same 3hrs...etc.  My Marathon PR i did some long 21-22milers first 18-20 with my wife (1:00+ slower/mi then normal) and runs ended up LONGER in time....then my Marathon ! :-)  Was a good confidence booster.

This morning I had more time than usual - got 10min extra sleep and no hurry to get home.   So was able to get in a good strong 10miler on the Mill - last 8 miles at 7:05-7:14 (1%) with 30-90sec surges mixed in at 6:10-6:45 (5k-Tempo-SST) (1-3%).   Seemed like a good workout to make those miles have a similar fatigue as real marathon pace miles and maybe get some lactate clearance benefits.   Was nice to get in a 74minute run on a weekday morning! :-)   https://www.strava.com/activities/1428342693

OMR: nice work on the 0.4 miles! That's a helluva warmup for that workout. Glad to hear it.

Keen: nice week! Is this 15k more a race or workout for you?

Jamie: I agree that snow > cold rain. In east TN our winters consist of 4-5 inches of snow in the winter and 15-20 days of 39F rainy days. Those days are the worst.

Long Runs: I've always done 1-2 20+ miler per cyclec (only 3 cycles) with mixed results. But I do like the mental prep. This is the first cycle where I'm really implementing more extended periods of MP in the LR.This weekend is 22miles with last 7 at GMP and moderate pickup in the last few miles. Trying to simulate late race fatigue and pushing through it.

I was encouraged by this mornings workout. It wasn't a long one, but did focus on increasing effort.
Workout was 2x200, 4x1000, 2x200. Goal times were 38 for the 200, 3:40 for the 1000. Had a 2 mile warmup and a 1.5 mile cool down. I was running late for work. 
I went: 37, 39, 3:31, 3:30, 3:27, 3:25, 38, 36.
Felt really good overall. Max HR on the 1000 was 176, which was a tad lower than expected at those paces. So, I think that's encouraging.

Race isn't until 3/25, so plenty of work left to be done, mostly just sticking to the plan, but it feels like my fitness has improved a fair amount since last cycle. So hopefully the conditions will be good to go for it!

Ended up with 46.4 miles last week, a little down, but only had a 12 mile long run. Thought about trying for 50, but also enjoyed the day of rest on Sunday.

"However, since I'm running Botulism, I acknowledge that the stars likely won't align, and I don't have a great shot at sub-3 this go round."

Probably a good mindset to have going in, and then be pleasantly surprised if you get a tailwind or nice conditions. The crowd support should also probably be greater than any previous race - this is your first Botulism, right?

"those 14 weeks are going to FLY by. Have you set a schedule of "goal miles" or something like that?"

Ugh, I should probably do this, but I've been using WTF roll-my-own plans for so long that it sounds like a pain.

Feeling a slight throat tickle today and wondering whether I should push through or try to get to 40 miles on just 5 days of running... bleh.

SC: rest on the 200s was 200 jog. Rest on the 1000s was 2:30 since it was VO2