Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
kk - thanks! I'm certainly enjoying taper
fb - I see, that's a tough call then. I'd still imagine that your vast marathon experience would help manage your effort throughout the race. I'd say go for the BQ and re-assess halfway through. Regarding gels, it's quite impressive that you've done all your marathons without nutrition, if I understood correctly! If you still have a long-ish run before the race, I'd say try it out and see how your stomach feels. As many have mentioned, there will definitely be benefits if you can handle them.
rune - kudos to your buddy for getting the BQ despite the long course, that's impressive! And more impressive is that he hit the time to the second. Also, thanks a lot for the info on Paris! That's very useul. I checked and it seems they still offer water bottles at every stop, so that's good to know.
ace - I think normal-ish legs 3 days after running a 24 min PR is as good as it gets!
Thanks ace, DkW, fb and CK for the feedback on walking the water stops.
To answer DkW's question, I think my friend's rationale was more on the side of breaking up the race psychologically. He did this the first time he broke 3, but doesn't do it anymore. In my case, I feel that drinking water with distressed breathing from running gives me a higher chance of getting a side-stitch, so walking seems to help. I don't have many data points, but in Berlin it happened twice (km 23 or so and km 28), so I started walking when I was drinking after that and never got another one. My biggest fear is, as many of you have pointed out, walking and not being able to start running again. I did try this strategy at the HM and other training runs during this plan, and it seemed to work pretty well, but I'm not sure how it'll be at mile 22 or 25 of a marathon.
CK - Thanks for the suggestion! I remember looking into the straw before Berlin but didn't do it in the end. In Berlin it could have potentially helped, in Paris, with this plastic bottles issue, it probably wouldn't help much.
5K - 18:03 (5.18) | 10K - 37:58 (2.18) | HM - 1:20:45 (9.18) | FM: 2:57:59 (10.18)
Hey all - I’m on my phone so excuse the short post. We are in Orcas Island, Washington. It’s really beautiful and DS and I have been doing some great trail runs. There’s a 50k here in Feb that I think would be awesome to run which is totally unlike me. We have even had good weather!
Rune - Hope marathon recovery is going well. Did the RD ever confirm the long course?
Ace - you too!
FB - I can never predict race times for myself or anyone. But it does sound like aiming for 3:30ish isn’t crazy.
Rlk: my husband is a mission to get us to stop using plastic based on that article and some things they’re doing at work. It’s tough - once you start thinking about it you start to see plastic everywhere.
Katia: I have two boys who are 3.5 years apart, which means 4 years in school. I’m a little sad they wont be in high school together but overall happy with that age spread. They get along great, and in part I think it’s because they were not really competitive with one another when they were younger bc of the age difference. Now they’re 12 and almost-16 and really close.
Pesto - I have t tried walking through water stops because I’d find it hard to get going again late in a marathon. I carry a water bottle too for the first 15 ish.
Hi, guys,
I'm on a road trip, busy during the day and fighting a bit of jetlag, so I haven't been able to get here
Congrats to the racers last weekend, I guess I have already congratulate Ace and Rune for running PRs in different circumstances.
Congrats DW on a 85 min HM
Pesto: I don't walk the aid stations, I think I'd get a hard time resuming. I just sip or sip less than it was served.
FB: Thanks,, starting taper now. Re: gels: I do it occasionally in long runs and do it almost always in races HM or full. You may need to practice in the training because I don't know if it will distress your GI.
Max: Central Governor sounds like Noakes... Isn't it?
Brew: Safe trip back home
Dad, Keen, Elizabeth: Huge weeks for all of you. That's beyond what I can run, ever.
Katia: I think you are ready for a PR if weather cooperates. I leave the forecasts to the pacing gurus, but you are in the right track.
Ilana: Steep ramp up from 20 to 25 miles is 25% increase
OMR: Good luck in your surgery.
All others: Hi, sorry if I missed you... I went 4 pages back, and that's just this week.
Me: Last peak week before taper
Weekly Summary Monday, Mar 19, 2018 thru Sunday, Mar 25, 2018
I will request Ilana's advice, but I will collect the rest of the info before presenting here
Ilana - most times I think of doing just that -- pacing for a 3:20-2:25 finish and calling it good and a "flat course PR" again. I do know the course is hard in that manner, since I, too, completely blew up the last (and only) time I ran it. If nothing else, I'm hoping to have a well-executed race unless I decide getting drunk on the course is the way to go.
FB - It's definitely fun and I like having a little one.
Pesto - I'm enjoying the taper as well I usually only walk through 1 water stop of the race, and it tends to be the last one. It's usually not planned, but by then in my last 2 PR races I just needed a walk break and water, and figured (correctly) that I could pick it back up.
Oregon - my middle sister and I are almost 3 years apart, and not super competitive, but we both did gymnastics and were both very talented at it (both competed through NCAA), so I always think about that. High school together was fun for the year I was a senior and she was a freshman - she was always more rebellious and by my senior year I didn't care so we'd skip school together. Like I said, I wanted them closer together but as in many things, life had other plans. Enjoy your vacation!!
Brew - lol funny. I'm 32 and I don't feel old at all. Glad NeRP is feeling better!!
Smax - interesting re: if they body thinks you're taking care of it. Not entirely related, but I'm listening to Matt Fitzgerald's "How Bad Do You Want It" book and I've found many of the principles interesting, if not entirely groundbreaking.
I have a cold, but at least it's well-timed (ish?) Regular 5 miles with my neighbor yesterday and then short run at the end of the day, mostly so that I could get out of my dress at work (don't ask - I was literally stuck in it ). If I feel up to it today I'm going to do 8-9 miles. Taper question: assuming I should cut to 85% ish, is that from averaged miles (40ish) or peak (48.5)? I think this week I'm going to be able to do between 35-40, and I don't have it in me to care where exactly that falls - I'm doing 15 miles next Monday or Tuesday as this weekends LR bc of weekend plans, so I'm not micromanaging this taper at all.
PRs: HM: 1:32:59 (2015); FM: 3:18:36 (2017)
Wait! Is today Patriots' Day??? Because it is suddenly 30 degrees warmer than it was two days ago and instead of the wind freezing your ____ off, it wraps you in a little bubble of humidity.
Mother of Cats
Hah! Maybe the weathergods got confused this year. I'm pretty psyched about the weather for tomorrow's workout (starting above 60 degrees). Every chance I get to train in heat is a boon at this point - hard work is done - I'm just acclimating.
K - you are not allowed to post stuff like that (about the dress) and then say "don't ask"...
10.5 "miles" of pool-running and some DIY yoga today.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Katia: It's usually from peak week (aka normally the week before)
Oregon: A friend of mine did the 100 miler plus the tower challenge (he said every 100 miller finisher did it). He praised the island landscape as well.
Ilana: Here is my data for my upcoming marathon:
Race: Borington on April 16
Previous marathons:
Current mileage: 49.5mpw for the last 12weeks. 43.9mpw for the last 26 weeks
Tuneup: HM 1:28:58 (with some weather effects)
Long runs: (reporting only LR over 30Kms in the last 12 weeks starting by most recent):
Has anyone heard from Rovatti recently? I actually sent him a message a few weeks ago, if he checks now it will be out of date and consequently a little confusing.
Sorry I missed your message. (No more armory workouts this year...).
My running became such a struggle for the past 3mo, that I decided to take a break... just eating, resting, and a little weight lifting. I'll get back at it when I feel rejuvenated.
In the meantime, I've got my eye on y'all...
Rovatti -- I'm behind. Are you injured, or just old? Blah. Sorry to hear that you are off the roads for now; hope you are close to coming back and doing OK.
Jamie -- that a really nice cycle -- lots of peak miles and a lot of sustained running over months. That will definitely come in handy during the last 10K. I will leave predicting up to the experts. Your 3:18 on a 42:23 10K time trial and 44 mpw looks really good me; isn't that a sign of good natural endurance? That also points in a good direction.
Dad/DW -- nice. KK also lived through the stupid, hot 2012.
Oregon -- Did I know that you were the kids Mom and not their Dad? Stupid me. haha.
Max -- I've tried the rinse and spit experiment with gatorade at that "gawd no" moment. Who knows if it worked, but it makes sense. The water in the mouth v stomach is a good experiment (glad it wasn't me), and the central regulator theory has always been interesting. Someone who cares about you is trying to keep you from killing your physical body, so you need to trick him. Nice. And a sour stomach probably doesn't have a negative impact on result. Thanks for that.
I'm a running buddy with Max. yay.
Thanks for the tips on goos and calories everyone. Something that I once knew and then forgot. So I bought a goo and am going to give it a try tomorrow. More thanks coming if it works.
Me -- this is why we run. I needed to go into the city center for a root canal, where there is zero parking. So I ran. 3 miles each way at GMP. I have to go back next week for the sealer and in two weeks (after my race) for the crown. So more city running for me.
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
pie man
Sorry I missed your message. (No more armory workouts this year...). My running became such a struggle for the past 3mo, that I decided to take a break... just eating, resting, and a little weight lifting. I'll get back at it when I feel rejuvenated. In the meantime, I've got my eye on y'all...
No big deal, I wound up working that day anyway. Sorry things have become a struggle.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
It's less funny than it sounds,. but basically, I have the world's most inflexible shoulders and had a dress on that had a zip up the back that due to my shoulder inflexibility, I literally could not get out of it on my own. When my husband said he was going to be working late this put me in a little bit of a panic, especially since our nanny had taken DS to her house, so I didn't even have that option. So, I ended up explaining to one of the paalegals and decided that at the end of the work day I'd change into my running clothes and while I was at it, might as well get outside for a bit.
Pace Prophet
Jaime - I like the last of your LRs, that was just about exactly 3 hours, right? That's a good time on feet for the marathon. While the 10k/marathon relationship looks good, that 10k is quite slow compared to your half, so I'm inclined to discount it as data. (And I just realized you said it was a tempo, which makes sense. Assuming you had some easier miles on both sides of it, I usually use 10k tempos as a HMP proxy, and that matches your HMs.) So I'd say you're about in the same shape as your previous marathon for speed, with perhaps a little better endurance due to a second cycle and slightly higher recent mileage. 3:15, maybe, if you are careful with the pitfalls of the course.
And, I don't do the 10% weekly rule but rather focus on broader averages. I generally stick to the Daniels-style increase method of holding a mileage for 3 weeks and then increasing by a total of one mile per weekly run, so going from 20 to 25 just indicates that I run 5 days a week, which...I've done once lately, oops. But 25 isn't that much more than 24, and anyway I'll be only running 24 max this week due to circumstances, so, um, I forgot my point.
Today's plan is a mountain bike ride, yay!
Speed Surplus
Well, my knee just exploded.
OK, maybe that's a little extreme. I was out for a tempo - the plan was to get 3 miles of downhill tempo work into a 10-miler. One mile in to my warm up, at an easy pace, on a perfectly flat sidewalk, I noticed a few stabs of pain behind my left kneecap. I stopped pretty quickly and began stretching my quads and hamstrings, but I couldn't start again without pain.
I walked a bit and hoped it would just go away - I've felt this sort of thing before and it has always just disappeared as quickly as it appeared. After a few blocks of walking, I tried jogging back to the office and it felt OK. (I called off the run, but I needed to get back to work). But then about a quarter mile later it flared up again. I stopped immediately but it continued to hurt as I walked the rest of the way back.
What gives? Please tell me this will be gone tomorrow.
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Well poop.
I don't want to give you false hope, but....my left knee cap is a bit funky, and every once in a while it shifts somewhere it shouldn't and crunches something it shouldn't. Hurts something awful. Gone in 2 days.
I hope it's something similar for you.
Ilana - I like your take on focusing on the average, rather than the strict #.
Rovatti - glad you stopped by! Sorry about the injury woes.
K - I am amused by that explanation - thanks for sharing. How does a former elite gymnast have inflexible shoulders? (maybe it's the price of being a former elite gymnast?)
FB - I'm a big fan of literally running errands. Around here, many times running beats ether car or public transportation.
10 miles today, including a short track workout of 3200, 1600 in 12:44 (6:23/6:21) and 6:14. Also injury prevention work, recovery swimming. Legs still a bit tired from the half, which is not unexpected.
Recovery Phenom
Pesto: I like to carry a handheld bottle. It's annoying, but it ensures I get the water I need when I need it. The best is when I toss it at around mile 18-19 and then I feel free. I use a 24 oz sports bottle of water that any grocery store would have.
fb-guy: Have you tried Generation UCAN? You take it 45-30 minutes before the race. It's a powder you mix with water. One packet will last you about 90 minutes. And then I mix a packet with water and take another serving about 90 minutes in. And that's all the fuel I need, doesn't cause any stomach issues. Highly recommend it, as it has totally changed marathoning for me. That link will give you an automatic 10% discount as I am an ambassador.
AceHarris: Loved your race report. Congrats. Walking is a great way to get over the soreness. I think soreness is correlated to how hilly the course is, but I could be wrong.
Seattle: So interesting about that study. I actually used to over hydrate for that reason. I would be so worried I wasn't get enough that I would drink too much and then my stomach would revolt.
Brewing: Isn't it crazy when you need a vacation from your vacation?
oregonrw: Sounds like a beautiful place to be. Glad you are soaking it all in with the trail running.
jaime: Great week for you, lots of quality in there.
Katia: Stuck in your dress? Oh my! I think that 85% is a cutback from the average of your last four weeks, but don't quote me on that!
Dad: LoL on the hot weather = race day.
Darkwave: I was excited about the 60+ temps for the first two miles, and then the novelty wore off. I have discovered this cycle that doing hard workouts in the heat has a bad cumulative effect on me. I think it's why I didn't fare well in Indianapolis. I did an easy run on Friday and by noon, I felt like I needed a nap, so I literally left work and took a long nap.
Rovatti: Thanks for checking in. Sounds like a break was in order.
Ilana: Hope the mountain bike ride was fun. Good to see you back at it!
SomethingClever: Yikes. I have no clue what that is. Sounds scary and I hope it resolves itself.
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My week is below. A new weekly mileage PR at 78.5 (Strava always thinks I ran more on the track). I set four weekly mileage PRs this cycle!! I never imagined I would be able to safely run this kind of volume, but I am doing it. 320 miles for the month of March. Everything feels really good and I am hoping that doesn't change within the next two weeks. I have a hard workout tomorrow (Monday) but then the workouts really start to taper off. My long run yesterday was supposed to end with 8 MP miles, but I wasn't quite able to hit goal pace. I'm not terribly worried about it though, as I said to Darkwave above, the 66-degree run on Friday really took it out of me!
Weekly SummaryMonday, Mar 26, 2018 thru Sunday, Apr 01, 2018
26.2 x 31 (3:15:34 PR)
13.1 x 35 (1:30:58 PR)
Author of the book Boston Bound