RunningAHEAD - Topic: Discussion on 5k tiimes

posted: 7/29/2008 at 10:51 AM

Racing is mental. I am curious as to what some of you think about 5k finishing times. It must be different for different runners speeds. As one who struggled to beat the 20 minute barrier for years this is how I see it: Of course it depends on age as well but this is in general my thinking: Under 13 minutes...world class Olympians. The world record is 12:36 but I do not think Kenny Bekele can run under 13 minutes very often. Under 14 minutes....Olympic crowd...I have talked to a runner who has run 13:30ish in the past. But I have never seen a 13 Tight lipped

x effort in person. Sub 15....Elite runners....I have seen 3 sub 15 minute efforts in my life. All 3 times were in the upper 14:50s. In the 3 races these guys were about 50 yards ahead of the entire racepack during the races 1st 400 meters. Sub 16...more common...might be a couple runners in any road 5k race. Sub 16 is usually enough to win 97% of road 5ks. These runners must be born with some talent. Sub 17...Still the cream of the crop of runners. Sub 18,,,would be all-state in high school. Takes alot of work and talent to get here. Sub 19....all conference in high school. Most runners can get here with years of training and motivation. Sub 20....very good runner. Sub 21...good runner. Sub 22....nice runner Sub 23...a little above average runner. Sub24... been runnning awhile... above average runner. AN average runner is probably around 24:40 for guys.

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:01 AM
modified: 7/29/2008 at 11:04 AM

Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/29/2008 at 10:51 AM:

Sub 18,,,would be all-state in high school. Takes alot of work and talent to get here. Sub 19....all conference in high school. Most runners can get here with years of training and motivation.

Depends on where you go to high school, but generally speaking, you're off a little. MF, I ran in Michigan in the late 1980's. Back then: State Meet XC winning times for Class A were usually in the low 15's. All-staters in the 15's All-Conference in the 16's and maybe 17's. MTA: A little perspective. Michigan Division 1 2007 XC Finals (largest schools). Top 30 runners ranged from 15:26~15:59. 17-flat was good for 150th place.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

Jeff

Why is it sideways?

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:05 AM

Yep. Sub 18:00 will usually get you a spot on a varsity team, but that's about it. Unless you go to east podunksville high.

Scout7

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:10 AM

I ran sub 17 in HS, and didn't even get to states.

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:11 AM
modified: 7/29/2008 at 11:15 AM

Quote from Jeff on 7/29/2008 at 11:05 AM:

Yep. Sub 18:00 will usually get you a spot on a varsity team, but that's about it. Unless you go to east podunksville high.

My school was kind of podunkish, and back then, our varsity XC was typically a guy or two in the 17's, some 18's, and maybe a couple of 19's. We weren't very good. MTA: The team that won state in Michigan last year had an average time of 16:02 for the top 5 runners (who are the ones who score in a cross-country meet). The team that cam in 28th place had an average of 17:02 for the top 5 runners.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

MrFinn

Prince of Fatness

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:21 AM

Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/29/2008 at 10:51 AM:

Sub 21...good runner. Sub 22....nice runner

So this means I'm nice and on the verge of being good? I agree with the others, all-staters here in Jersey can run sub 16.

Not at it at all.

mikeymike

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:23 AM
modified: 7/29/2008 at 11:25 AM

Since I'm a 17 minute 5K-er I think the "average" runner is probably about 21:40. I just added 4 minutes to my time, since that's what you did. Sub 18 would not be All State in any state, I don't believe. Most high schools probably have a few kids at least that fast. At the Massachusetts high school Division 1 cross country meet last year, 133 kids ran 16:45 or better for 2.9 miles on grass. In the Division 2 race, 101 kids did so. That's 234 kids in a relatively small state. You'd have to figure all of them and probably more could run sub 18 on a road 5K.

Runners run

MichiganFlyer

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:38 AM

Quote from mikeymike on 7/29/2008 at 11:23 AM:

Since I'm a 17 minute 5K-er I think the "average" runner is probably about 21:40. I just added 4 minutes to my time, since that's what you did. Sub 18 would not be All State in any state, I don't believe. Most high schools probably have a few kids at least that fast. At the Massachusetts high school Division 1 cross country meet last year, 133 kids ran 16:45 or better for 2.9 miles on grass. In the Division 2 race, 101 kids did so. That's 234 kids in a relatively small state. You'd have to figure all of them and probably more could run sub 18 on a road 5K.

Yeah I am thinking back to my high school days back in 1990...we had a runner who ran about 17:06 and I think he was an all-stater just barely...our high school had about 75 students graduating class. I dont know how all-state was interpreted maybe it was top 25 runners? Runners have gotten faster since then...I guess the times go up and down through the years. You rarely see sub 15 guys anywhere unless its a race for money. Guys running in the 15s and 16s are around...I consider them the ringers. They run your weekly road races to win every time. An average 5k is probably around 27 minutes actually but I am considering an average runner to be one who has been running for 6 months to a year and has actually put in some training to get faster.

dnstapes

posted: 7/29/2008 at 11:49 AM

I think you guys are quite a ways off, at least according to races in Maine. Check out these race results. This is the largest 5k in Maine, with just under 2000 finishers. http://coolrunning.com/results/08/me/May11_8thPor_set1.shtml I think you are grossly overestimating what an average runner can run. Look at the above set of results, or just pick a race that is not a high school or college race. In the above race, the top 25% finished in under 25:30, the top 50% finished in under 29:00 or so. The top 5% finished in under 20. For other races, these percentages will obviously shift around quite a bit, this is just a sample. If you look at a smaller race, you will see faster times. I know in any race it's hard to draw the line between walkers and runners, so maybe someone that doesn't agree with me can use that as an argument. But the point is that when such a small percentage of the population would even enter a race, it seems crazy to label any of these participants as average.

JimR

posted: 7/29/2008 at 12:10 PM
modified: 7/29/2008 at 12:11 PM

Over 30, you're a finisher. 25-30, hey...you've done a bit of training. 20-25, above average for a dedicated runner 17-20, yeah, you've got some good talent. You can even win some races on occasion, at least for your A/G. 15-17, they're up front every race and win most of the 5k's run. Sub 15, what? No sponsorship yet? Watcha waitin for?

Lank

posted: 7/29/2008 at 12:14 PM

Sigh. People confusing fast times with talent makes me sad.

"Good-looking people have no spine. Their art never lasts. They get the girls, but we're smarter." - Lester Bangs

JimHowe

posted: 7/29/2008 at 12:20 PM

As an old age grouper I'm most aware of masters times in the area I compete. Here are top times from Zippy 5k, run on a certified loop in Golden Gate Park. It is one of 3 5k's in USATF Series, Pacific division, apprx 380 finishers While these events do tend to bring out the best runners, they are all local. 40-45 15:58 16:26 16:29 16:36 16:39 46-49 16:19 16:33 16:43 17:06 17:15 50-54 16:30 17:00 17:08 17:13 17:24 55-59 18:09 18:30 19:02 19:20 19:56 60-64 (I didn't run - sick) 18:52 19:45 21:07 21:14 21:31

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

JimR

posted: 7/29/2008 at 12:21 PM

Quote from Lank on 7/29/2008 at 12:14 PM:

Sigh. People confusing fast times with talent makes me sad.

The clock only cares how long it took to get from start to finish. Everything else is a footnote.

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 7/29/2008 at 1:13 PM
modified: 7/29/2008 at 1:18 PM

Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/29/2008 at 11:38 AM:

Yeah I am thinking back to my high school days back in 1990...we had a runner who ran about 17:06 and I think he was an all-stater just barely...our high school had about 75 students graduating class. I dont know how all-state was interpreted maybe it was top 25 runners? Runners have gotten faster since then...I guess the times go up and down through the years.

If you only had 75 grads, your 17:06 guy ran in a different division than the folks I mentioned above. As you go to smaller divisions, you get less depth. Again, referring to Michigan XC 2007 Winning Time / 25th Place time (all-state cutoff) Lower Peninsula Division 1: 15:26 / 15:58 Division 2: 15:10 / 16:15 Division 3: 14:52 / 16:19 Division 4: 15:49 / 16:39 Upper Peninsula Division 1: 17:03 / 18:43 Division 2: 16:46 / 19:32 Division 3: 17:17 / 20:16 Now comparing the LP to the UP (they have separate finals because of the long distances) is apples to oranges because they're on a different course, but you get the picture. 17:09 is only all-state when you're talking very small schools. Interesting that the fastest overall runner (14:52) was actually from a smaller (division 3 LP) school. But the depth is much more apparent with the larger division 1 schools. I'm not sure about high school runners being a lot faster now than then. With so many other things competing for kids attention, I bet there's a lot of kids who do other things instead of run. And this a single data point, but my HS coach ran a 15:49 at state finals in 1981 and did not make the all-state team. MTA: I begged my parents to move to a small town in the UP when I was in HS so that I could have been a "state champion" in XC and track.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

jeffdonahue

posted: 7/29/2008 at 1:32 PM

Quote from JimR on 7/29/2008 at 12:21 PM:

The clock only cares how long it took to get from start to finish. Everything else is a footnote.

I like that...

Discussion on 5k tiimes (Read 1633 times)