RunningAHEAD - Topic: Power Running Physiology Enters the Mainstream (page 18)

adora

posted: 10/15/2008 at 11:26 PM
modified: 10/16/2008 at 1:28 AM

Quote from spaniel on 10/13/2008 at 7:40 AM:

I already posted one article where Dick said data supported his claims, yet conveniently left out that the authors who generated that data wholeheartedly disagreed with him. With that in mind, let's look at another excerpt from Brad Hudson's new book that Dick claims supports his theories and "brings them into the mainstream": "Oxygen is a big part of the sport of running. One of the signature physiological characteristics of the best distance runners is a large aerobic capacity, or the ability to consume oxygen at a very high rate while sustaining fast running speeds. And one of the primary effects of training as a distance runner is a significant increase in the ability to consume oxygen when running hard. Why is aerobic capacity so important to running performance? Because oxygen plays a direct role in releasing energy in the muscles. The more oxygen your muscles are able to consume as you run, the more energy they can pour into moving your body forward and the faster you can run over any distance exceeding a few hundred meters. The muscles are also able to release energy without oxygen, or anaerobically. And, in fact, anaerobic metabolism is well suited to provide large amounts of energy that are needed to fuel very high-intensity efforts, such as short sprints. However, anaerobic metabolism is much more wasteful than aerobic metabolism. The aerobic breakdown of a single glucose molecule yields 20 times as much energy as the anaerobic breakdown of the same glucose molecule. In addition, the aerobic system can metabolize fat, the body’s most abundant energy source, whereas the anaerobic system cannot. Aerobic metabolism is therefore better suited to sustaining submaximal efforts. Working muscles always release energy both aerobically and anaerobically, but the lower the intensity of exercise, the more they rely on aerobic metabolism, and the higher the intensity of exercise, the more they rely on anaerobic metabolism." Funny, Dick, how someone who you claim supports your gibberish begins his book by reiterating everything your detractors here and elsewhere repeat ad nauseum. If he is supporting you, you support this quoted above.

And maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or for anyone else, I don't know. But I do know that, as long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves. - Spartacus

Purdey

Self anointed title

posted: 10/16/2008 at 6:15 AM

Troll responding to troll. Life just doesn't get much more dull.

Rich_

posted: 10/16/2008 at 7:35 AM
modified: 10/16/2008 at 7:36 AM

Quote from adora on 10/15/2008 at 11:22 PM:

Rich's theory seems to be from Run Faster (muscle part) and program from FIRST (low mileage without VO2, LT or aerobic crosstraining).

If you think I just cherry-picked parts of other's training ideas in order to formulate my own, then you you left out Frank Horwill's 5 pace theory - http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank67.html The truth is I came up with power running physiology and training on my own - and did not simply relabel someone else's training methods.

Rich, are you serious. I think you are sincere.

Yes, I am sincere and serious.

In summary: If you're aerobic system sucks you can't run worth anything even if you have the worlds strongest muscles. - CarmelRunner

True, but just how common is it to find a runner with muscles powerful (not strong, powerful) enough to get the job done (i.e. run fast for long distances) but an inadequate aerobic system? Research shows that only a small % of people actually reach VO2max during a VO2max test. Their muscles fatigue prior to reaching VO2max - in other words it's not their aerobic system that is holding them back.

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

Rich_

posted: 10/16/2008 at 8:09 AM
modified: 10/16/2008 at 8:12 AM

Why running just 3 days per week works a physiological explanation Since the conversation has turned to training and specifically to running 3 days per week, I thought it appropriate to post a physiological explanation for why the 3 days per week program works. How is it possible for someone to run 3 times per week and run well? First, the 3 days per week program follows this format: - long run at a slower pace - medium distance run at a medium pace - short run at a fast pace So, each week contains distances of short, medium, and long and paces of slow, intermediate, and fast. It is the combination of these 3 runs that are the key to the program and why it works so well. Here's why. Basically, you have 3 different types of muscle fibers: - slow twitch - fast twitch A - fast twitch B Each of these 3 different types of fibers have distinct contractile properties. They work together as a team, based on the task being performed. In the case of running, at almost any running pace you are using the slow twitch and fast A fibers. At the very fast paces you are using all 3 types of fibers - slow, A, and B. In order to maximize performance, you have to train all 3 types of fibers. For distance running you especially have to train the slow and fast A fibers, but you will also need to train the fast B fibers some too. Slow twitch fibers have a lot of endurance so in order to overload them you must exercise them for a long duration. In order to train the slow fibers you have to run at a slower pace for a long distance (long duration) - i.e. the long run mostly trains the slow twitch fibers to get more powerful and enduring. Fast A fibers are more powerful and faster than Slow Twitch fibers but don't have quite as much endurance. To train the Fast A fibers you have to run at a moderate to hard pace for a medium distance (medium duration) - i.e. the medium distance medium pace run mostly trains the Fast A fibers. Fast B fibers are the most powerful and fastest but have the least endurance. To train the Fast B fibers you have to run short and fast - i.e. the short, fast pace workout mostly trains the Fast B fibers. In essence, it is these basic physiological facts about the different muscle fiber types and characteristics that explain why the 3 days per week program works as well as it does - it does a pretty good job of training all the fiber types and, in most cases, performance is determined by the conditioning/fitness/capabilities of the muscle fibers.

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

angrek

posted: 10/16/2008 at 8:29 AM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/16/2008 at 7:35 AM:

Research shows that only a small % of people actually reach VO2max during a VO2max test. Their muscles fatigue prior to reaching VO2max - in other words it's not their aerobic system that is holding them back.

Can you please cite research that you use? Thanks.

Run like you stole something.

JakeKnight

posted: 10/16/2008 at 8:32 AM

Quote from Purdey on 10/16/2008 at 6:15 AM:

Troll responding to troll. Life just doesn't get much more dull.

Yup. I always figured if you put two trolls together at the same time and place, the universe would implode. Guess my theory was wrong. Speaking of which ... anybody seen Hefty lately? (Or am I reading Hefty's work right in this thread? It sure looks similar, doesn't it?) Just talkin' to Purdey. I am not actually participating in this abomination of a thread. Nothing to see here. Move along.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
-----------------------------

spaniel

Feeling the growl again

posted: 10/16/2008 at 8:33 AM

Again, you quote muscle fiber fatigue as a REASON, but you still recommend 1/3 to 1/2 of your workouts (and the MAJORITY of your total weekly mileage) be easy runs. Despite stating that easy runs do not add significantly to performance. If you do not believe they add significantly to performance, you would not have them in your plan, period. The reason they are there is beside the point (unless you are saying you include easy runs even though you don't think they add anything to the resulting performance, which would be a contradiction to indicating that easy runs fatigue certain fibers and thereby improve performance). Each time you do one of these threads, you seem to lose a few more brain cells. Yawn. I'm done.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

mikeymike

posted: 10/16/2008 at 8:56 AM
eric :) censored this post on 10/16/2008 at 5:27 PM.

Not relevant to the topic

Lank

posted: 10/16/2008 at 10:06 AM

It certainly is a bold new world out there. Let's have a look at it in more detail.

"Good-looking people have no spine. Their art never lasts. They get the girls, but we're smarter." - Lester Bangs

Purdey

Self anointed title

posted: 10/16/2008 at 10:18 AM
modified: 10/16/2008 at 10:18 AM

Not participating in this thread, just using it as a convenient place to respond to JK. There is certainly little else of interest.... oh wait, apart from lady above. Thanks Mike. (That's not going to help you "taper") 2 x trolls in same thread responding to each others' drivel must lead to an ever decreasing circle of fetid bollocks which, as it increases in speed, will rival even that weird tunnel under the Alps. When it reaches terminal velocity two things happen: 1) implosion, as you so rightly pointed out 2) BlueSkies, Rich and Trent will all be revealed as the same person. Oh. More ladies, less clothes please.

Rich_

posted: 10/16/2008 at 10:21 AM

Quote from angrek on 10/16/2008 at 8:29 AM:

Can you please cite research that you use? Thanks.

Start with this one - Low frequency of the "plateau phenomenon" during maximal exercise in elite British athletes.Doherty M, Nobbs L, Noakes TD., Eur J Appl Physiol. 2003 Aug;89(6):619-23 and this one - Int J Sports Med. 2006 Dec;27(12):984-92. Frequency of the VO2max plateau phenomenon in world-class cyclists.Lucía A, Rabadán M, Hoyos J, Hernández-Capilla M, Pérez M, San Juan AF, Earnest CP, Chicharro JL.

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

Rich_

posted: 10/16/2008 at 10:29 AM

Quote from spaniel on 10/16/2008 at 8:33 AM:

Again, you quote muscle fiber fatigue as a REASON, but you still recommend 1/3 to 1/2 of your workouts (and the MAJORITY of your total weekly mileage) be easy runs. Despite stating that easy runs do not add significantly to performance.

Do you really not comprehend the difference between an easy run and a longer run at an easy pace? The following will help you understand. Tonight, go for a standard easy run - i.e. 3-4 miles at an easy pace. Then, this weekend go out for a 20 mile run at that same easy pace. Compare the difference between the 2 and let us know what you discovered.

Yawn. I'm done.

Okay.

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

adora

posted: 10/16/2008 at 12:33 PM
modified: 10/16/2008 at 1:01 PM

(Rich) These 3 things - muscle, physiological systems, Central Governor - together determine how you will perform during any endurance event.

Quote from Rich_ on 10/16/2008 at 7:35 AM:

Their muscles fatigue prior to reaching VO2max - in other words it's not their aerobic system that is holding them back.

Assuming the first part is true. It doesn't rule out the aerobic system. Spaniel wrote a great post about this. Anyway, I read your power running idea and your website with an open mind. You have good ideas but you leave out the aerobic system.

And maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or for anyone else, I don't know. But I do know that, as long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves. - Spartacus

Save Cheevers

posted: 10/16/2008 at 1:21 PM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/16/2008 at 10:29 AM:

Do you really not comprehend the difference between an easy run and a longer run at an easy pace? The following will help you understand. Tonight, go for a standard easy run - i.e. 3-4 miles at an easy pace. Then, this weekend go out for a 20 mile run at that same easy pace. Compare the difference between the 2 and let us know what you discovered.

Glad to see that you're above being insulting.

Rich_

posted: 10/16/2008 at 2:00 PM

Quote from adora on 10/16/2008 at 12:33 PM:

Assuming the first part is true. It doesn't rule out the aerobic system. You have good ideas but you leave out the aerobic system.

What, in particular, about the aerobic system in relation to performance do you think I'm leaving out?

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

Power Running Physiology Enters the Mainstream (Read 2197 times)