Quick drive by. I've been silly busy with travel (soccer tournament-related) and stuff around the house (like fence building) for the last week, with more craziness this weekend and I'll be out next week as well.

I have no idea how so many of you remember so many names/stories like this. I guess that's the introvert in me.

Weekly for period: From: 05/23/2022 To 05/29/2022

Total distance: 86.08mi

Steve - it's actually a bit more of a critique of your coach, not you. What's his job if he's not spotting this? What's the point of having a coach if they aren't going to review the work you've done and give pointers where necessary? Anyone can just create a random plan. The point of having a coach is reviewing what you've done and tailoring the approach to you. I think your 3:20 goal is totally fine, but that means your easy runs need to slow down even more. That's 7:38 a mile, but your easy runs have been around 7:50? Anyway I think you should talk to your coach about it.

 

 

I’m a lot more wary of giving an opinion to any runner with a coach now as most will be loyal and try to justify what they say no matter how absurd the paces look.

If your GMP is 7:38 and 7:50 is easy pace, then that either means your easy runs are too fast or your GMP is too slow. 🤷‍♂️

I’m a lot more wary of giving an opinion to any runner with a coach now as most will be loyal and try to justify what they say no matter how absurd the paces look.

 

If your GMP is 7:38 and 7:50 is easy pace, then that either means your easy runs are too fast or your GMP is too slow. 🤷‍♂️

*says he is wary of giving an opinion*

*gives opinion*

As a rule of thumb,what do you guys run your easy runs at compared to MP when your close to the race,so fully fit.Mine tend to come out about 1-1:30min slower.

I always liked the Pfitz rules, using percentages. But it does fall apart outside certain ranges. He says easy runs can be 15-25% lower than MP. In general, I think that's about right. It does fall apart I think as you get below 2:30, or above 3:30. Guys who run their marathons at 5:00 flat pace, or 2:11, should not have their easy pace approaching 5:45 (15%). I imagine most of them are doing easy runs in the 25%-40% range. On the other hand, if you are running 8:00 miles for a 3:30, I don't think it's the end of the world if your easy runs are 9:00, which is faster than 15%.

I'm glad you phrased the question the way you did though. Easy pace moves around in relation to MP. These paces I'm referencing are when you are deep into marathon training and just doing your usual easy runs. If you are more fresh, the faster your paces are. Heat etc. impact things as well. I do get frustrated with people who just say "easy feels easy" or "it depends" and that's it. It's not very helpful for new runners, or runners taking on much bigger distances. Yes, it does depend. Some days my E pace is 1:00 slower than MP. Most days it's more around 1:15-1:30 slower, and some days it can be 2:00 slower.

I think most runners go through these phases:

1. Run their easy runs too fast, not truly understanding what easy should feel like because they don't feel like it's as hard as a race, so they must be taking it easy
2. Learn about taking easy runs easy , and then overdo it, saying they are looking to run a sub 3 marathon but brag about their easy runs at 9:30
3. Find out what works best for them in the range spoken above: some are better in the +60 second range, some +120. Some runners fall outside of these ranges on the slower ends, but they have reasons: they've tried different paces and figured out what worked for them. 

7:50 is 100% not my easy pace. I’m more looking for 8:00 - 8:15 pace with 8:00 the absolute upper limit (admittedly the last few weeks that hasn’t happened). I know it should probably be slower still. My marathon target is around 7:28 (4:40/km allowing for the extra 500-600 metres).

 

*says he is wary of giving an opinion*

*gives opinion*

 

I said I was wary of giving an opinion. That doesn’t mean that I won’t give an opinion. 

One other metric that hits on the last two posts from Steve and Ian as well that is a good metric - are you hitting your workout paces?

About 6 weeks ago, I was using 15% slower than MP as my "upper" limit, i.e. I could run slower than that, but if I hit that pace, I would dial back a bit. I missed two big workouts in a row, just feeling like crap. That told me those easy paces were too quick: you can't be near the absolute upper limit of easy pace, and then blow up on workouts. So for the rest of the cycle, I set my upper limit as 20%, and I started doing much better with my workouts after. That's the trial and error that occurs a bit.

Steve - if you're good at running the tangents, the marathon shouldn't run that long. 100 meters would be closer based on my experience. So I think your GMP really is around 7:35. Anyway, I think even 8:00 is too fast given those goal posts, but it's going to take time for you to learn how to slow down. I ran almost exactly like you used to: when I ran my first sub 90, I was doing easy runs right around what your pace is now, 7:45. It just takes a lot of mental effort learning how to slow down. This board helped me a lot in that regard. It's a journey. I don't know that anyone gets their easy pace right at the start. Maybe someone here has, but we have a lot more stories of all of us running too fast.

Or you could, you know, not be a total slave to your watch and run easy pace based on feel.  Crazy I know.