2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 389 times)

mmerkle


    MarkyMark: What was your track session if you don't mind me asking?

     

    darkwave: I like that mentality of finishing with a focus on effort and ignoring pace. I need to be more like that. If I fall off pace I get mad and pull the plug to try again another day (or like 20 minutes later like I did this week).

     

    My Week:                                                              Miles     Time     Pace/mi     Pace/km   

     

    7/25: Easy 7                                                           7           55:37     7:57          4:56

    Leg strength later

     

    7/26: Easy 8                                                           8          1:02:00   7:45          4:48

     

    7/27: 1.5 warmup, 4 mile tempo

    on the track in 25:30. Planned

    a 5 mile tempo but my back and hips

    felt really stiff. I should have stopped here,

    but then 10 X hill sprints, few minutes rest,

    1 mile in 6:05, 1/2 mile CD                                     7           48:29     6:56          4:18

    Abs and light leg strength later

     

    7/28: Easy 7                                                           7            55:29     7:56          4:55

     

    7/29: Off, felt stiff and sore in the hips                 

     

    7/30: 20 minutes easy, then

    5 X 4 min fast / 2min slow fartlek with the

    fast surges between 5:50-6:10 /mi pace

    (3:37-3:49 /km)

    according to distances from Garmin, the

    rest easy                                                                 7           50:44      7:15          4:30

    Upper body + abs later

     

    7/31: Easy 7                                                            7           54:58      7:52          4:53

     

    Total: 43 miles (69 km), 5:27:17

    JMac11


    I spilled the milk

      Steve - all the more incentive for you to run your true MP . On the elevation thing - is your marathon pancake flat? If so, you'll be okay. And finally - yeah, 30K is sort of the point where you learn what kind of marathon you're going to have. If it still feels "easy" at 35K, then your pace was not your true pace. I think ultimately it's like a half: when does the going start getting tough in a half? For me, that's right around 15K where I need to buckle down and concentrate. Same in the marathon: 30K. You do hear some weird stories where people say they felt great until mile 22 or 23 and then hit the wall, but those are very rare and are often nutrition miscalculations or a cramp that came out of nowhere.

       

      Cinammon - what do you usually average mileage wise per year?

       

      SC - good to hear from you, hope you're back in the fall.

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

      cinnamon girl


        Steve - that's kind of a bummer you don't have easy access to hills. Meant to say I also agreed with Ian on nice 21 miles too.

        Mark - this one is loops around a lake all flat. The real SF half was the weekend of World's. There are two courses for the SF half - 1st way hillier than the 2nd. I ran the 2nd half 3 yrs ago and looking at garmin had only 350 ft gain which was concentrated in 4 early miles and 600 ft downhill but they were significant drops not the nice runnable kind unless you're confident in your strength and/or not afraid of hurting yourself. I just looked at the results and I didn't remember or maybe never knew I got 2nd OA by age-grading 84.67% second to a 46 yo guy who ran 5:33 pace. Wow, I just realized that was my last real race, it's been awhile. 

        JMac - can't really answer that question that well, but most of my marathons I've averaged 60 or just under. I know I'm averaging in the upper 50s since June. I'm trying!!

        Moose Mug x 4

        SteveChCh


        Hot Weather Complainer

          JMac - I won't know my true MP until after the race!  I don't expect to feel good at 35km, I don't really know how not to give it everything.

           

          The marathon isn't pancake flat but is close to it, and the hill work I have done should see me through.  I like to refer to Marby's race to check out the course profile.  37-38km has a rise which I've run before on "The Tan", which isn't major but will likely hurt at that point.

           

          Melbourne Marathon

          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

          Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

          Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

          Marby


             

             

            I had a good chat with my coach last week about the course and what to expect in Melbourne.  I've done the half 3 times but obviously never the full and was particularly interested in how bad it gets when the half and full meet up with about 10km to go.  His answer - expect it to be bad and prepare yourself not to waste energy getting angry.  I was interested that piwi said he had no issues, but the coach pointed out that if you're running 3 hours or faster, when you meet the half runners you'll be running with 1:30 or faster runners.  When I can expect to meet them, assuming I am 3:15-20 (which I am), I'll be stuck with people running a minute per km slower.  Sounds like there's plenty of room for a few km but then it merges into one lane and half runners block the whole lane.  At least I'll know it's coming.

             

             

            The merge just after 30k isn't too bad. The trick is to stay right, the issue with that is that there are drinks on the right for marathoners just before the merge.  So more precise is to avoid drink chaos and then stay right.  The next one to look out for is at 37k where half and marathon separate (just after the right turn off Alexandra Ave). You want to stay left at this one.  Last one is getting in the correct lane inside the G, staying right through the tunnel should help there.

            I've run it 9 times and have entered but will be at least a half hour behind you, if I'm lucky.

            Happy if you have more questions (maybe DM rather than bore everyone) and to meet up for a recce on the Saturday if you want.

            Half 1:26:41 (2016), Marathon 2:59:83 (2021)

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              Thanks Marby.  I have no issue boring everyone with Melbourne talk 

               

              As a 3 hour marathoner, you would have been less impacted by slower runners I think?  A meet up on Saturday or beer on Sunday sounds great.

               

              I've noted your very cautious mileage and suspected you were injured and might not get there this year.  Pretty gutsy to attempt the full rather than downgrade.

              Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

              Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

              Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

              Marby


                The marathon isn't pancake flat but is close to it, and the hill work I have done should see me through.  I like to refer to Marby's race to check out the course profile.  37-38km has a rise which I've run before on "The Tan", which isn't major but will likely hurt at that point.

                 

                Melbourne Marathon

                 

                You're right, if's more about where it is. The 'hill' starts at 35.5k, goes for 1.7k and is a steady gain of 15m.  Translation: Even climb of 50ft over a mile starting at 22mi. 'Losing' about 15 seconds per kay is around par.

                Half 1:26:41 (2016), Marathon 2:59:83 (2021)

                Marby


                  Thanks Marby.  I have no issue boring everyone with Melbourne talk 

                   

                  As a 3 hour marathoner, you would have been less impacted by slower runners I think?  A meet up on Saturday or beer on Sunday sounds great.

                   

                  I've noted your very cautious mileage and suspected you were injured and might not get there this year.  Pretty gutsy to attempt the full rather than downgrade.

                   

                  Yes, a bit different but I've also run a 3:18 and a 3:23, not ideal but manageable.

                  Recce or beer... recce AND beer!

                  I tried to come back too fast after the broken ankle and suffered injuries to my knee and motivation.

                  Half 1:26:41 (2016), Marathon 2:59:83 (2021)

                  Marky_Mark_17


                     

                    You're right, if's more about where it is. The 'hill' starts at 35.5k, goes for 1.7k and is a steady gain of 15m.  Translation: Even climb of 50ft over a mile starting at 22mi. 'Losing' about 15 seconds per kay is around par.

                     

                    That sounds like exactly the sort of hill that looks like a speed bump on paper but is relatively horrible at that point of a marathon!

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

                    Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 21 August

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    flavio1980


                    Intl. correspondent

                      Jmac - LOL yeah, I saw that people were posting more here than there and since I don’t like the idea of double posting I thought of moving here.

                      Regardless, I’ll stick around here cause the Waltons also post here so I get to chat with the most people.

                       

                      Ian - good planning as it’s like 12h difference, I suppose it can be brutal.

                       

                      Mark  - I see the average Joe & Jane squatting and dead lifting at least their own body weight.

                      I suppose many of them just lift so it’s easier, but if I can get to those weights while still running I should be in great shape and much stronger.

                      I may be the exception in this group but I see a BIG difference in running from doing strength training. It greatly improves my posture while running, it feels easier to run as the core is holding the weight better.

                      PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                      Up next: Some 5k race in September

                      Tool to generate Strava weekly

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        Flavio - Nice week. And I'm pretty sure the average Joe does precisely zero weight training...
                        My wife is looking into doing some weight training at the local gym, and adding me on to that membership would be pretty cheap, so perhaps I'll figure out the big lifts and try those before long.


                        Steve - Nice week, particularly that LR.

                         

                         

                        Copypasta from the Waltons, with the preceding new comments not addressed there.

                        I finished with my biggest month Since October, and my 3rd highest monthly volume all-time (Sept. and Oct. last year being higher).
                        We had a nice two day break in the heat thanks to some rain coming through, but now temps are back to what they used to be (lows around 80F/26.6). I have a 5k coming up in less than two weeks now, which I'm quite excited for. Here's hoping for a well-timed break in the weather!

                        It also seems that for the past couple weeks I've been over 4,000 miles for the rolling year (thank you, smashrun). I'd love to be able to put that many miles up for this calendar year, but I'll have to be WAY over pace for it in order to accommodate taper and recovery from CIM into that so I'm not certain it'll happen.

                         

                        Weekly for period: From: 07/25/2022 To 07/31/2022

                        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                        in ft
                        07/25 9 hawks, 9 geese, 3 herons, & 1 ornate box turtle 12.01 19.32 01:41:48 08:29 05:16 443
                        07/25 8 buzzards & 1 hawk 4.05 6.52 00:35:57 08:53 05:31 213
                        07/26 1 rabbit & 1 hawk 8.01 12.88 01:13:32 09:11 05:43 374
                        07/27 Taking the scenic route 3.35 5.39 00:27:38 08:15 05:08 79
                        07/27 4x (4x 400m) 6.22 10.01 00:45:21 07:17 04:32 0
                        07/27 Heading home 3.15 5.07 00:27:38 08:46 05:27 75
                        07/27 Vitamin D collection 4.25 6.84 00:38:07 08:58 05:34 200
                        07/28 2 hawks, 2 rabbits, 1 deer (1 stride), & smelling the rain coming in 10.01 16.10 01:32:50 09:16 05:46 453
                        07/29 1 deer (1 stride) 11.05 17.78 01:36:04 08:42 05:24 433
                        07/29 1 blue heron 5.05 8.13 00:43:50 08:41 05:23 207
                        07/30 13 deer (13 strides), 1 coyote, & rain the whole way 15.11 24.31 02:06:07 08:21 05:11 758
                        07/31 Plenty of deer tracks, no deer (no strides) 4.50 7.24 00:41:50 09:18 05:47 276

                        Total distance: 86.76mi

                        5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                        Riverside 5000 - 8/13

                        Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                        CIM - 12/4

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                          Thanks Marby.  I have no issue boring everyone with Melbourne talk 

                           

                          As a 3 hour marathoner, you would have been less impacted by slower runners I think?  A meet up on Saturday or beer on Sunday sounds great.

                           

                          I've noted your very cautious mileage and suspected you were injured and might not get there this year.  Pretty gutsy to attempt the full rather than downgrade.

                           

                          To touch on the "fast marathon meeting up with slow half marathon" topic. Even at the small Revel race I ran it seemed like every aid station was focusing more on getting slower runners what they needed than the faster runners (sample size of 1) and I understand it to a point. They're just servicing the runners in front of them. If you've never been there you can't imagine how you taking aid is actually hurting someone else. Some slow runners are what I'd call "experienced" at being slow. They look around them in races before entering aid stations because they know the fast people are coming. Others are oblivious and probably think faster runners can just go to the next stop because it's easier. 2.5 hours of running at 80% max heart rate is hard no matter how fast you are.

                           

                          I hope you get a great race. It's been LOOOOOONNNNNG overdue for you.

                           

                           

                           

                          My week:

                          well I was sick. I picked up SOMETHING over the weekend, felt exhausted Monday (more than expected after doing Jeep stuff) and had a fever Tuesday. Spent it 90% in bed, Wednesday on the couch. Forced myself to eat some solids Wednesday on lunch (at least 24 hours of liquids) and Thursday I felt "okay." Friday's run destroyed me and my stomach hurt from mile 1 until the finish. I had to stop and walk with how much it hurt. Every run was like this. I didn't want to be too far from home. I think this is a SLIGHT understanding of how darkwave can feel with GI issues. Today was the first day I've pooped a solid poop in a week. Yesterday is the first run I've done where I felt back to normal. Perhaps the immune system was still recovering a week after the 50 miler I did. If not for the stomach/flu thing I could have been running normal paces and distances a week after the race. Of course, I get sick while on vacation so all my plans were canceled. Too bad too...would have made an epic day trip to hit Yosemite for a run or two...even at $6.20/gallon fuel locally (over $7 in Bishop, CA).

                           

                          Sorry I ain't been around these parts. Just not much going on. CIM is 99% full and I'm not paying $275 for a charity entry. I am going to look into trying some speed work and see if I can get into marathon shape. I could try to find a bib transfer and go for another PR with keen or just get in some good quality training in preparation for Boston 2023. The really hard part is CIM in December then Boston in April gives me about a month of not race training. I either put all my eggs in CIM and race it (I've done VERY well there) with Boston being my victory parade (long time goal) with an adults only vacation to it, I try to go CIM 2 BOS with back to back race cycles (90% chance winter would DUMP massive amounts of snow) or I just pick Boston 2023 as the absolute goal and skip CIM. It's been on my mind for a really long time. I think the weekly mileage I did for the ultra helped me stay in good aerobic shape for road marathons, and the big switch would just be the tempo/threshold/speed work I've not done for 8 months.

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 54.9

                          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                          SteveChCh


                          Hot Weather Complainer

                            Marby - Sorry to hear about your on-going injury struggles.  That hill will no doubt feel like a mountain climb at that stage.  I think it turns away from the tan before it hits the steepest part of the hill though?  Hopefully we can work something out on race weekend.  I was originally staying at an AirBnB in South Melbourne, then the owner sold it and I moved to her new apartment in Prahran, then for some reason that failed the AirBnB process so it was cancelled.  Because I had to re-book so late I decided to go for a place in my old hood of Elsternwick and get an Uber to the start.

                             

                            Keen - Nice week.  Amazing that you're doing that sort of mileage in such awful running weather.  At the halfway point of the year I was on track for about 4000km which I thought was pretty big.  4000 miles is crazy.

                             

                            RP - It sounds like you're well capable of doing both if you wanted to.  With Boston being a life goal though, and given that you've conquered CIM, I'd be tempted to put all my focus on Boston.  Could you do a half at CIM?  Looks like they have a relay option.  I think your current half PR was part of your marathon PR right?  So it is in need of a take down.

                            Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                            Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                            Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                            JMac11


                            I spilled the milk

                               

                              Keen - Nice week.  Amazing that you're doing that sort of mileage in such awful running weather.  At the halfway point of the year I was on track for about 4000km which I thought was pretty big.  4000 miles is crazy.

                               

                               

                               

                              That's really impressive, I didn't know you had sustained such high mileage for a while. You're in great shape for the marathon if that's the case!

                               

                              Keen - do you have any idea what kind of fitness you have? I haven't been tracking as closely, but when was the last time you raced? Also, 9 hawks???

                               

                              cinammon - you must have some serious talent to be running 85% AG with only 50 MPW!

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                 

                                That's really impressive, I didn't know you had sustained such high mileage for a while. You're in great shape for the marathon if that's the case!

                                 

                                Keen - do you have any idea what kind of fitness you have? I haven't been tracking as closely, but when was the last time you raced? Also, 9 hawks???

                                 

                                cinammon - you must have some serious talent to be running 85% AG with only 50 MPW!

                                 

                                Yeah, since 2020 my mileage numbers have been very solid.  2020 was 3442km, 2021 was 3859km both aided by marathon training cycles.  I started 2022 training for the Christchurch marathon in April which was cancelled which is why my numbers this year are trending even higher (even with a Covid break).  My last few events have been big breakthrough races and it's no secret what has led to that.  The marathon cancellations have sucked but might end up working in my favour with how prepared I'll be for Melbourne, all going to plan (touch wood, turn around 3 times and spit etc etc).

                                Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                                Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022