2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 389 times)

JMac11


I spilled the milk

    I've always thought if you can hit 2000 miles (3300 or so KM) in a year, that's when you start seeing serious breakthroughs in your times, even at the marathon, so that aligns with what you're saying. 4000K for the marathon is perfect.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

    CommanderKeen


    Aspiring Hobby Jogger

      JMac - Thanks! The last time I raced was a HM back in April - a PR with which I was/am both happy and unhappy. With "good for summer" weather and a good course (my upcoming 5k course is pretty fast) I think I could run 18:05 or a little faster. Extrapolating from the current forecast, 75F/23.9C is about the best for which I could hope.
      If the temp dropped to the 60s or 50s I'm quite sure I could break 18.
      9 hawks was a lot of hawks. All red tails, as is the norm around here.


      Cinnamon - 85% AG on 50mpw!? How'd I miss that? That just sickens me. Congrats, the AG itself is truly impressive even without considering it was "only" on 50mpw.


      Steve - Races do get in the way of good training, don't they? I get really happy with training and logging miles/workouts and then here comes along a race that requires a taper and recovery, which just gets in the way of all that training goodness.

       

       

      I repeated my progressive 3x (4x 800m) workout from a few weeks ago this morning. Same targets as before, but the kiwi point was a solid 15-16 points higher than the previous attempt and I certainly felt the resulting extra intensity.

      The local jr high / high school kids showed up to start their warmup during my penultimate interval, and the coach was kind enough to 1) not kick me off the track, but also 2) have the kids clear out of lane 1 so they didn't interfere with my workout. As soon as I finished up I headed elsewhere to do my cooldown so as to not interfere with them and hopefully keep in the coach's good graces.

      5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

       

      Upcoming Races:

       

      Riverside 5000 - 8/13

      Wurst Race Half - 10/8

      CIM - 12/4

      flavio1980


      Intl. correspondent

        Keen - Heh, yeah, agreed the average Joe sits on the couch to watch TV.

        I’ve been trying to emulate your “apex predator diet” but I have an incredibly hard time reducing sugar consumption.

        I have been able to increase protein intake though mostly cheating by using some dairy products that probably contain whey protein.

        Today I bought bacon again, so sometime this week there'll be bacon & eggs for breakfast.

        This past month we had my brother in law visiting and the diet took a fall due to eating out tons of times.

         

        RP - I have now put you back on the “Human” column. 

        PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

        Up next: Some 5k race in September

        Tool to generate Strava weekly

        Running Problem


        Problem Child

          Steve My passion for CIM is the full marathon. I train 100% and the course pretty much always rewards me with a great race. It is a circular logic in my head. I do well at the race because I respect the distance and train hard. I don't think I'd enjoy the half marathon just because the finish of the marathon has been such highs a half there just wouldn't do it.

          I second what JMac said about hitting more miles and seeing serious gains. Combined with some cross training/strength training/TRX I broke through some sticking points I never would have and it has made MAJOR impacts on my marathon times.

           

          Flavio Thanks. I was feeling a little awkward in the other category. Those are people I look up to and can only dream of having their abilities. They go home with trophies AND finisher medals. I just go home and enjoy making my BPA free cup "disappear" in my hands to people under the age of 5.

          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

          VDOT 54.9

          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

          mmerkle


            CommanderKeen: That's some serious mileage, well done.

            Marky_Mark_17


              MarkyMark: What was your track session if you don't mind me asking?

               

               

               

              Sorry, didn't pick this up first time around.

               

              The Saturday session was:

              8 x 200 / 100 jog

              600 / 400 rec

              2 x 1k / 400 rec

              600  / 400 rec

              5 x 100 / 100 rec

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

              Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 21 August

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              JMac11


              I spilled the milk

                 It's getting to that time of the year where you're probably sick of the hot weather and we're sick of the cold weather.  Saw the sun for the first time in weeks yesterday so hopefully the flood water on my favourite bike path recedes by Wednesday!  Pretty tough for you to try to ramp up for a marathon in that weather.

                 

                I officially hit this point yesterday after another failed attempt to start up my quality sessions. The sunset getting earlier daily is a bit upsetting, but this is the first time I think I've ever wanted summer to be done. Usually I find it so much better than winter that I just deal with it, but it's been especially bad in NYC this year. We've had so many more 90+ degree days than usual.

                 

                My long run this weekend was right around 130 TDP. I'd happily take that weather right now. Probably won't be consistently like that though until mid September unfortunately.

                 

                But late January / early February (equivalent of what you're in) is definitely worse. No sunlight and the winter is still going to hang on for another 2ish months. No thanks.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                flavio1980


                Intl. correspondent

                  RP - Having a 5 year old disappear your cup is a good problem to have

                   

                  Jmac - New York has some incredibly crappy weather year around it seems. Blizzards in winter and then 90+ degree days in summer.

                  You will not believe this, but yesterday we actually had to pull over some blankets cause the temp is so pleasant it gets almost chilly over night.

                  I'm impressed the temperatures are so stable here in Porto. Also, it may be one of those days, 35 degrees C outside (90 something degrees F) in the sun, but if you are in the shade it's actually very pleasant, like 10 or so degrees cooler.

                  PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                  Up next: Some 5k race in September

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  JMac11


                  I spilled the milk

                    You will not believe this, but yesterday we actually had to pull over some blankets cause the temp is so pleasant it gets almost chilly over night.

                     

                    I think perhaps my favorite thing about winter is sleeping under a bunch of blankets because it's so cold in the room.

                     

                    I just looked at the Porto weather forecast. Wow - amazing. After living in Brazil, it must be a dream in the summer there.

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                    DavePNW


                      I've always thought if you can hit 2000 miles (3300 or so KM) in a year, that's when you start seeing serious breakthroughs in your times, even at the marathon, so that aligns with what you're saying. 4000K for the marathon is perfect.

                       

                      There are exceptions to every rule but I agree with these figures. What I tell people early in their marathoning career: 2000/3300 is the bare minimum to start seeing improvements, and to get serious you need more like 2500/4000, at least. And sustain that over several years - it's really a cumulative benefit. Consistency year to year is key, as well as throughout the year. Yes you need to recover from your marathon, but after about a month get back to a solid base level. Anyway maybe no point in posting this here since this not a group of beginners and I am probably preaching to the choir.

                       

                      Personally - I used to always target 2500/4000, and in a good year would end up a couple hundred-ish miles above that. But in 2020 I found myself with extra time on my hands, and nudged that up a bit. I found I was able to sustain higher mileage and hit 3200/5100 in both '20 and '21. So my new annual target is more like 3000/4800.

                      Dave

                      DavePNW


                         

                         

                        I may be the exception in this group but I see a BIG difference in running from doing strength training. It greatly improves my posture while running, it feels easier to run as the core is holding the weight better.

                         

                        I think most people know this is the smart thing to do. For those of us of advanced years, and bad backs, core/strength work is even more important. But I do precisely ZERO. I just hate any form of exercise that isn't running, so can't motivate myself. And I don't have access to a gym (which is an excuse, I'm sure there's stuff I could do). My tiny concession is planking. I did a 30-day plank challenge in June, starting at 20 sec and ramping up to 2 minutes. (There was a schedule that got you up to 5 min, but LOLOL. I started on that but quickly realized there was no way.) I've kept up with a 2 min plank every days since then. I might increase the time but IDK. No idea whether it's doing anything.

                        Dave

                        DavePNW


                           


                          Steve - Races do get in the way of good training, don't they? I get really happy with training and logging miles/workouts and then here comes along a race that requires a taper and recovery, which just gets in the way of all that training goodness.

                           

                           

                           

                          Yes, BUT....

                          My main training goals are always two marathons every year, when healthy. I really enjoy 5k/10k/HM distance, but sometimes it's hard to squeeze those in. The latest marathon plan I had built for me includes a tuneup half but that's it. That's what I did for my CIM cycle last fall. I was going to use the same plan for Chicago this fall, but decided I am going to get in whatever fun shorter stuff I want. I'd like to do my best at Chicago, but decided it's worth the sacrifice (if there is any). I'm still using the plan as a guideline, but just considering the races as workouts, and adjusting accordingly. A race is a great workout, right?? I am going to miss some LRs due to races on weekends, but so be it - I think my base is solid enough for the distance. And anything HM or below, you don't need too much taper/recovery anyway. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

                          Dave

                          Ian5


                            I think the most I've managed in a year is 1800,but I know if I can do more I'll get faster.

                            As for S&C it's something I've tried a few times but never manage to stick to.I do a pretty physical job so I find that's a good balance for me.

                            Some of the weather you guys have to put up with is crazy,at least in the UK we may not have the hot weather but its a pretty even climate,there's usually no more than a few days a year the weather is too harsh to run in.

                            5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                            CommanderKeen


                            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                              Flavio - Sugar is freakin' addictive, isn't it? I found it harder to get away from it than to stay away.
                              A (relatively) massive protein load every day is something I credit with helping support my running habit.

                              5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                               

                              Upcoming Races:

                               

                              Riverside 5000 - 8/13

                              Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                              CIM - 12/4

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                Boston Marathon hotel reservation made. If anyone wants to hang out let me know.

                                 

                                JMac the ONLY thing I've seen worse than your weather is a buddy in Korea. I'm not even joking when I say he had 87F weather and 80 degree dew point. I cannot even IMAGINE how much that sucks. At least you have remained injury free.

                                 

                                Flavio I just saw an article saying Spain made it illegal to have the air conditioning below 80F (~27C). I'd be in jail LITERALLY because mine is set to turn on at 75F (24C).

                                 

                                Strength training definatly helps running. It's been discussed here previously, and helped me a lot. Not being sick also helps.

                                 

                                 

                                Situational question:

                                How long does "race pace" last or how long can you claim a pace is your race pace?

                                 

                                I have a friend who ran 8:00/mi pace. He said it was close to race pace. The race he is referring to is CIM 2021. 8 months ago. I wanted to tell him "CIM 2021 is not your race pace" or ask "Will this be your race pace until your next race?" His heart rate was 130 or less for the entire 8 mile run (54M) and I can almost guarentee you he would say it felt so hard and he couldn't go faster until the downhills and blah blah blah. So how long do you get to claim "race pace" is actually race pace? If I never run another race can I say CIM 2021 is my race pace when I'm 54?

                                My personal believe is about 2 months, maybe 3, and you can only use "race pace" when you're actually doing a workout. Me running 6:45/mi isn't "race pace" because it's 8 months old and I probably couldn't even race that in a 5k right now. I'm also asking because if I go try some kind of workout Samuel Morse could tell you it was coming.

                                 

                                 

                                EDIT: I don't know the last time I raced during training. I've done races to determine training paces. 5k in May/june to find out where my fitness level are. 10k the week before CIM to get race pace dialed in or see what I can throw down, but neither of these were a targeted race. Even the 10k I went into thinking "well just because you hit this pace/time doesn't impact marathon results." I guess I adopted that part of Hansons, along with not looking into races more than 30 minutes away because I don't want to drive 2 hours for a 5k.

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                                VDOT 54.9

                                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07