2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 491 times)

DavePNW


     

    Dave: I am a pure solo runner. Can't remember the last time I trained with another soul. It's been years and years. I'm somewhat open to it, but it seems you need someone with your exact ability no? Also, I'm a crazy person who doesn't mind being in their own head. Got lots of company in there LOL.

     

     

    mmerkle - I was also a 100% solo runner till I discovered my running group a couple years ago. It happens to be a very large group, with 10 scheduled group runs per week. Each run might have 10-20 people actually show, other than the big one on Saturday morning (the only one I do), when most people do their LRs. That run can have 80-100 people show up. The organizer creates routes of various distances; people form sub-groups based on their planned pace/distance. I can almost always find people to match up with. It's more straightforward with a steady-paced run, be even people planning a workout can often find partners.

     

    Anyway I've found LRs so much more enjoyable with a group, and have made a ton of new runner-friends (not necessarily the same as regular friends, but still). Plus since the group supplies pacers to a number of races, it's given me an opportunity to do some of that, which I've also found I enjoy. YMMV.

    Dave

    DavePNW


      Side bar (but relevant to our recent discussions).  A new guy joined the group I train with this summer.  Nice guy - marathon PR of 3:50, wanted to run 3:30 or even 3:25 at Berlin.  Didn't know too much about training, but seems decently talented.  He got paired with another woman who was targeting 3:25, and they did all their workouts together, including marathon pace workouts (marathon pace for the workouts was between 7:40-7:45).

       

      They both ran Berlin this morning.  She ran 3:28 - a big PR for her and she's thrilled.  He ran (wait for it)

       

      3:08. Split as 1:37/1:31.

       

      There's a lot that can be taken away from this.  But I think the most important point is - you can train for a marathon time that is much slower than what you are capable of, and it's not going to limit you to that time on race day.

       

       

       

      I don't know what his exact pacing strategy was for this race, but I do know that we were discussing marathon times a few weeks back and he indicated that he thought 3:15 was really fast and impressive.  And now he's a 3:08 guy.

       

      That's a great story. But to me the biggest challenge for any marathoner, whether beginner or more advanced, is knowing what pace to go out at. Too fast and you risk blowing up, too slow and it's hard to make up too much time later. Certainly if you are more advanced, you have a better idea of what your training should give you, and how to adjust for weather and course profile. (Someday maybe I'll get there.) I think for where he was at (based on what you've told us), it was very risky to go out at the pace he did. It sure paid off, and it's clearly proof that it can be done. But I might have guessed it would go the other way.

       

      Anyway, now you have me thinking of 3:15....

      Dave


      Pain is my friend

        Taper time is finally here. I normally do a 10 day taper. 5 days till St George marathon. Sub 3 or die.

         

        Back in the day when I raced 1-2 marathons a year, I would do 50 miles a week at peak for a Sub 3 marathon. I am doing 60-65 mpw now.

         

        Weekly for period: From: 09/19/2022 To 09/25/2022

        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
        in ft
        09/19 Another Monday 7.33 11.79 01:00:23 08:14 05:07 203
        09/20 New awesome Mueller park loop. 13.78 22.17 02:17:46 10:00 06:13 2201
        09/21 Heat training time. Let the sweat roll!! 7.15 11.51 01:00:18 08:26 05:14 387
        09/22 Soccer to the head 2.01 3.24 00:17:30 08:42 05:24 207
        09/22 Running from skwerls 5.01 8.06 00:37:01 07:23 04:36 161
        09/23 TM time 3.00 4.83 00:27:00 09:00 05:35 0
        09/24 Taper time 10.20 16.42 01:20:11 07:52 04:53 341

        Total distance: 48.48mi

        ATY 24   141.445 2019

        Bear 100 22:08 2021 

        Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

        St George marathon Oct 1st 2:58

        ATY 24 130.969 2022

         

        Pulse endurance 12 hour March 18th

        June 24 hour 

         

        DavePNW


          Taper time is finally here. I normally do a 10 day taper. 5 days till St George marathon. Sub 3 or die.

           

           

          Maybe both? Gonna be warm! Go get it!

          Dave

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

             

            Steve - yes the Gaga challenge was always sub 20 minute 5K but now Flavio has gotten a lot better so he's upped his game to the 10K. Next up: sub 1:30 is the Gaga challenge.

             

            How's the body feeling at this point? Ideal is: I don't feel so beat up, but I don't feel great yet.

             

             

            I'm thinking I want to have a crack at a sub 40 10km in February, and this ups the stakes significantly.

             

            I'm feeling pretty good, my legs have definitely found a bit of pop, which has been missing for some time.  I think overall I feel a bit tired, and it feels like I need more sleep than usual.  I expect I'll still feel tired until Friday with the travel.  It's a short trip but I arrive at 1am NZ time so that night of sleep won't be great but I've then got 3 nights to catch up (2 really, the night before the race won't be great).  Hopefully the travel goes without a hitch - significant delays or cancellations could have me pulling an all nighter 4 days out from the race.

             

            The weather forecast has stayed incredibly consistent.  It can still change but currently is looking like about 10C (50F) at the start, partly cloudy and light winds.  That's as perfect as I could hope for.

            5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

            *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

            Upcoming Races:

            Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

            DavePNW


               

              The weather forecast has stayed incredibly consistent.  It can still change but currently is looking like about 10C (50F) at the start, partly cloudy and light winds.  That's as perfect as I could hope for.

               

              I still prefer a bit cooler, but you can’t complain too much about that!

              Dave

              SteveChCh


              Hot Weather Complainer

                While doing my weights and strength exercises I've been watching some highlights from the MCG and getting very excited.  Obviously I'll be running into the stadium behind hundreds of others and with a much smaller crowd, but how good does it look.

                 

                Nick Willis wins gold in the 1500m

                 

                Kerryn McCann (RIP) wins gold in the marathon

                5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                Upcoming Races:

                Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                SteveChCh


                Hot Weather Complainer

                   

                  I still prefer a bit cooler, but you can’t complain too much about that!

                   

                  Yep, I'd prefer 0-5C at the start, but I was never getting that in a Spring marathon in Melbourne.  It looks like it will only be 15C (59F) by the finish.

                  5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                  *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                  Upcoming Races:

                  Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                  JMac11


                  RIP Milkman

                     

                    Yep, I'd prefer 0-5C at the start, but I was never getting that in a Spring marathon in Melbourne.  It looks like it will only be 15C (59F) by the finish.

                     

                    That's A weather, i.e. no excuses. Almost every sub 3 marathoner prefers races in the 40s, but those are hard to come by. I find some runners (not you given you said it's nearly perfect, just a rant because I've seen this a lot) point to the weather as to why they didn't run well after a race even when it was fine. I saw it this weekend with Berlin! It's like if someone breaks the WR in the race you just ran, the phrase "it was warmer than I'd like" should not show up in your race report as to why the race didn't go your way. Otherwise, don't sign up for anything other than winter marathons, and then don't complain when it's 15F and windy.

                     

                    Steve - you already know how I feel about travel delays. Hope that doesn't occur!

                     

                    Cal - are you getting to London early to adjust to the time? I feel like it would be hard going to west to east for a marathon: east to west is so much easier.

                     

                    Keen - you're the only one who liked my chart. Everyone else had to nitpick based on their own lived experience . Your Wurst Half is not up on the front page: are you going for a PR? Should I add it?

                     

                    RP - checkers or wreckers. I know you'd never let me go for the 1:15:30. I solely blame you for going for the Moose Mug and then blowing up at Grandma's 

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                     

                    SteveChCh


                    Hot Weather Complainer

                      JMac - Yeah, I had to balance it out with, at the time, the potential for winter marathons not to happen, and if they did, the only options were small races or not great courses.  Every time I've run the Melbourne half the weather has been good - even one year when it got to 25C (77F) later in the day, it was still nice and cool at race time.  Add in "partly cloudy" and that temperature is basically perfect, with some protection from the sun.  If I have a bad race, it won't be down to weather, it will be something within my control.  But let's focus on the positive...

                       

                      Killer long run and week by the way.  You're well on track to get "revenge" against the bad luck last year.

                      5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                      *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                      Upcoming Races:

                      Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                      Marky_Mark_17


                        Steve - you'll be fine on NZ to Aus.  Just expect to spend almost as long in Customs / security / baggage claim as you did on the flight.

                        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        * Net downhill course

                        Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

                        Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        DavePNW


                           

                          That's A weather, i.e. no excuses. Almost every sub 3 marathoner prefers races in the 40s, but those are hard to come by. I find some runners (not you given you said it's nearly perfect, just a rant because I've seen this a lot) point to the weather as to why they didn't run well after a race even when it was fine. I saw it this weekend with Berlin! It's like if someone breaks the WR in the race you just ran, the phrase "it was warmer than I'd like" should not show up in your race report as to why the race didn't go your way.

                           

                           

                          “Well sure, it was easier for him, he finished much earlier, before it warmed up!”—my report, if I had run that race and tanked it.

                          Dave

                          SteveChCh


                          Hot Weather Complainer

                            Steve - you'll be fine on NZ to Aus.  Just expect to spend almost as long in Customs / security / baggage claim as you did on the flight.

                             

                            I'll be checking in crazy early - I really hope the wait in Melbourne to get through isn't crazy long given I land at 10pm which is 1am NZ time (3 hour gap for a week due to NZ going to daylight savings a week earlier).

                             

                            I've had so many delays or cancellations over the years even from or to Melbourne.  I'm due some luck this week surely.

                            5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                            *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                            Upcoming Races:

                            Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                            Running Problem


                            Problem Child

                               RP - checkers or wreckers. I know you'd never let me go for the 1:15:30. I solely blame you for going for the Moose Mug and then blowing up at Grandma's 

                              I fully accept this blow up as my responsibility, and return blame you for me blowing up my last 1K hard run today (pulled from the 5k/10k training section of the bible) so fair is fair.

                               

                              Krash OH BOY!!!!!!

                               

                              edit:

                              Dave I've gone out at goal race pace for almost all the races I've done that I can remember. I actually don't remember how I raced in the early years when I didn't do marathons. I think I just ran hard and tried to stick with a group I'd raced with previously. I've very much gotten lucky/been fortunate/trained well for the times I've completed race distances in. Heck, even my 50 miler I just did was impressive to me. I was expecting more of a 12:30 time and just kept going until I couldn't go then started going again. I guess I live the life of "If you're going to be stupid you'd better be tough.

                              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                              VDOT 52.45

                              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                              Mikkey


                              Mmmm Bop

                                  

                                Cal - are you getting to London early to adjust to the time? I feel like it would be hard going to west to east for a marathon: east to west is so much easier.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Yeah, the London start time I think is midnight in California…but Cal is old school and will take it in his stride. 

                                I didn’t have any problem with time zone running NYC, so hopefully it’ll be the same with Boston. The only down side was trying to stay awake after 11pm.

                                 

                                10C, partly cloudy with light winds is the kind of marathon weather that you take advantage of - No excuses.

                                 

                                St George Marathon? - No excuses.

                                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)