Forums >Racing>2022 Advanced Racing Thread
JMac - sorry about the NYC weather. I agree it sounds like Boston 2019. Which did not make me want to quit marathoning, but the final miles of that thing were just about the hardest time I’ve ever had in a race. Even after backing off the pace a bit at this start. For weather like that you almost want to just plan for the positive split—it’s hard to back off the early pace enough that you won’t be affected by the warmup later on.
mmerkle - I’d think you want to be peaking 3-5 weeks out, and it should feel hard. You will not get overtrained from a single workout; if you were doing that every weekend it would be a different matter.
darkwave - run commuting always sounds like a great idea, but the logistics always seem troublesome. I agree running with a laptop seems most problematic. I’ve lived close enough to work to do it, but never had a workplace with a shower, so it was a non-starter anyway.
Mikkey - that photo looks like it could be an album cover, something like “Mikkey Sings Favourite Celtic Folk Tunes.”
Dave
Not an 80%er
Flavio: I understand people not agreeing with that LR for someone with a 2:59 goal, but the pace didn't feel forced, and I felt fine the next day. But at a certain point as others have said we will just have to find out what happens. For whatever it's worth, I know someone else with the same goal as me who just did the exact same LR, our times differed by only seconds. Also, isn't the time to peak pretty much now, with less than 4 weeks to go and only one week of hard training left? When to peak is still something I'm confused about.
+1 that Mikkey is winning with great photos lately.
Think of peaking for a race like a mountain. Ideally you'd peak *exactly* on race day. Of course that's nearly impossible, so the second best is you'd peak a few days after the race. That way you arrive on race day at say 98% or 99%.
If however you peak now one month before, you still start your descent from now until race day and then you will race at like 90% or 85% and depleted.
It's something very tricky and complex, many PROs also fail at it.
The trick is to always try to arrive undertrained on race day.
Remember that interview with Kipchoge stating he runs at 50% on easy days and at 80% on workout days.
To be fair, I think you're in much better shape than 2h59.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials)
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Mmmm Bop
About 7/8 years ago my wife bought me an accordion for Christmas!
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Cobra Commander Keen
Surely there's a recording of this you could grace us with.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
?
RIP Milkman
mmerkle - I think Flavio hit the nail on the head. Feeling "good" the next day doesn't really tell you too much because you're only going out and running an easy run. I could probably run 20 miles right now and feel "good" tomorrow. That doesn't mean that was a smart thing for my race on Sunday. There is cumulative damage that occurs when overtraining and often you don't find out until race day. Most people think about it in terms of classic overtraining syndrome, but it is bigger than that. Also I've pointed out before that sometimes what we think feels natural is very off. MP especially is not taxing. If you're not used to running that pace, it can feel easy. Look at how many people too we've yelled at who run their easy paces at MP+30 seconds, because guess what, it feels very easy and if you don't know better you will keep running at that pace. Steve did a great job explaining why you should effectively undertrain going forward too. There's just no reason for someone running a 2:59 to go out and run 20 miles at 2:59 pace, unless of course your true speed is closer to 2:49.
The graveyard of bad marathons are littered with tombstones that read "I ran a 20 miler at MP in training, why couldn't I do it for another 10K in the race?"
mikkey - I LOVE that photo! I agree with Keen, we need to hear this accordion.
DW - I am very lucky in that if I get home and there is work to do, I can do it on an iPad, so I can leave my laptop overnight. In the rare case that isn't possible, I will just work late, run home, and then run in the next morning. There's nothing in my job that will be sent out at 8 PM that can't be dealt with at 9 am the next morning. Zebano over in the Walton's thread showed me this idea of the PM/AM commute and I absolutely love it. Also - as long as I get in early (around 8 am), no issue with me walking around in casual clothes ,but I also don't have any sort of client-facing job.
Dave - nothing makes me want to quit running more than thinking about the sun breaking out in the final 10K. I think that will be the difference for me on Sunday. If it stays cloudy, I'll be okay. If not, it's going to be rough. Although I do agree that you can't really back off enough for bad weather, you have to understand a positive split is coming and just do your best to mitigate it.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Oh yeah and I already told my wife that I can't retire on a marathon that is 70 degrees outside. She is not thrilled with me.
It’s been gathering dust in the attic for the last couple of years, but my accordion playing was as bad as my training advice on this thread. I played bass in my younger years and actually dug up an old newspaper clip last week from 1997 which amused my wife greatly! I’m the one with the hair.
5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39
I was more than happy being the heart-throb of the band.
LOL
Pain is my friend
Rainy weather can be hit or miss for a marathon. If it rains the whole time, you may weigh 5-10 pounds heavier due to water. I ran Boston in 07 and my feet were drenched before I left the start. Things dried out and I had one of my best spring marathons.
I am recovered from the marathon and building miles. Had one of my biggest weeks this year. 80 miles. Ran a half marathon with a buddy. Ran from the finish to the start and then ran with him down the canyon.
ATY 24 141.445 2019 1st
Bear 100 22:08 2021
Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th
Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles
Bonnevile Backyard ultra
Ute 100 Aug
24 hour loop race?
Hot Weather Complainer
JMac - I don't know if you listen to the Running Rogue podcast but the most recent episode made me think of you: "Slaying pre-race demons". Especially his first point about a less than ideal build up.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
👏👏👏👏
Krash - LOL at you, "I was bored so I ran the marathon distance for fun". I'm shocked at your super powers!
Steve - I'm impressed with people who have patience to listen to podcasts 😁
Jmac - The marathon gods are punishing you. Have you tried sacrificing a goat yet?
DW/Jmac - I'm fairly sure if I walked into an office in running attire it wouldn't end well, what with the super short shorts I wear 😂 Come to think about it there are some ladies who run races in what can be described as a bikini (I saw that in Brazil, Italy and here in Portugal).
me - Is it time for taper madness yet? I have found the Garmin activity for my current 10K PR back in 2016-04-28, over 6 years ago.
It's actually a 38:12 so I need to run 3:49/6:06 pace. It's a scary proposition in my current shape. But you know me, except some rare cases I almost always go out in PR pace and then crash and burn.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1145824574
That time trial was a little over a month after my 50K PR. A month later I'd injure myself and spend nearly 2 years in rehab.
I hope that the competition helps me reach that extra gear and beat the PR, it would sweeten the year that started so harshly.
Mother of Cats
He already tried sacrificing a bird.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Nice memory! except now I'm remembering that crunch and it makes me feel sick. But yes the marathon gods have punished me this year with awful travel issues at grandma's and now this terrible forecast (now up to 73 high).
Steve/Flavio - the good thing about having a less than ideal build up and then a terrible forecast is you are as calm as possible. Yeah there are minor things bothering me physically but I have zero taper madness. I haven't woken up in my own bed for a marathon in 4 years, it'll be nice. I'm going to go out there and really try to enjoy the atmosphere: nothing matches NYCM and I wasn't going to run a PR anyway. It's actually quite relieving as this will be my first marathon not going for a PR.
There's not much heat acclimation I can do at this point, but I'm trying to run in long sleeve shirts and also use a sauna feature on my shower right after runs. Probably will stop that after Thursday though.
In terms of the race itself: luckily there are water stations practically every mile. I am also SO happy I spent the entire summer training my stomach to take in big amounts of liquid. Hopefully that means I can keep drinking water throughout the race, instead of like Grandma's where I had to start skipping aid stations way earlier than I should.
Who the hell know what the goal should be. Sort of throwing that out the window. We'll just see how it goes. Right now it says cloudy, which will make a big difference. 68 at race start and cloudy is a world of difference of 68 and full sunshine. Gotta take the positives where I can!