2022 Advanced Marathoning Thread (Read 135 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

    Ace A couple ultras. 50k in March, pacing a local half in May, 6 person 178 mile relay in June (fun run, not a race for me), 50 miler in July, and maybe my 5th CIM with the obvious goal of a New York qualifier. So pretty much keep up the mileage each week, and see how many streets I can run in my zip code.

     

    Cal Best of luck in Oakland. Wasn't Napa the first one you ran last year and didn't tell anyone about?

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 54.9

    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

    CalBears


       

       Cal: have you ran Napa previously? This will be my first time running it.

       

      Yes, I ran it in 2015 - it's pretty good race, could be fast if it has a CIM weather, but in March it could be also pretty warm. Some people say it's pretty hilly, but I do not remember it being too hilly. Some people say it is quite beautiful - I do not think so, imho, it's quite boring and almost zero crowd support - much worse than even CIM. Also I remember last 6 miles are totally flat and opened to the sun and those miles were really tough. But, in general, it's not bad - for me there is a huge plus - it's almost local and I plan just drive to the bus pickup point in the morning.

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      CalBears


         

        Cal Best of luck in Oakland. Wasn't Napa the first one you ran last year and didn't tell anyone about?

         

        Napa marathon is always in March - there were no races in March last year, so, no - my first marathon last year was Santa Rosa in August.

        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

          Currently my debate is whether or not I just sign up for the half on May 15th at the York Marathon and wait to try my first Marathon until the fall. I could run Harrisburg or Steamtown (assuming it isn't canceled AGAIN!).

           

          I think I can be "ready" if everything goes right by May... BUT, is everything going to go well enough to make that happen?

           

          Pro's to racing early:

          I'm relatively healthy now, who knows what that will look like in the fall

          Feeling pretty motivated

          Race local

          Opportunity to double up in the fall IF I want to

           

          Pro's to waiting:

          IF I can stay healthy I'll be in better shape

          Fall weather

           

          Laying out a 4 month long training plan (Jan15-May15), I have time to get some miles in. I think I can fit a build up, 4-5ish 60 mile weeks, 2 20+ mile long runs, and a taper into that time period. Again, it would have to go well, but it's doable.

           

          Thoughts?

          CommanderKeen


          Aspiring Hobby Jogger

            Brook - I vote race early. You know your motivation is high now and it's a local race, and even if you won't be in the same shape as this fall it will help build fitness for the fall even more.
            Lots could happen between now and then to spoil a fall race, but the only real (potential) downside is getting injured before fall, which is something that could happen even if you don't race in the spring.

            5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

             

            Upcoming Races:

             

            Rose Rock Trail Run (20k) - 1/29

            Wurst Race Half - 10/2

            zebano


              Strike while the iron is hot. You're healthy and motivated. Worst case, you don't run to your expectations and hopefully that's some fuel for the fire to keep you hungry through the summer.

              1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

              JMac11


              Milkman

                I agree with Keen and Zebano, but I would also add that like other distances, you're not going to get it right on your first crack at it. It took me at least 3 tries before I realized a few marathon "truths" for myself, once of which is that you will go through a dark spot at some point way too early into the race and that's totally okay. Other people have their own truths, which you won't know until you run one.

                 

                As long as you can get 5 months between races, you can run two marathons this year.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Unknown 

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                  DW - did you see my post about Takumi Sens? just want to get your thoughts.

                   

                  About the TS 8?

                   

                  My impressions of it were similar to yours - it's a lower stack sort of half-ass version of the Adios Pro.  Which actually makes it appealing to me, so I picked up a pair of the 8s as well to try.  I haven't run in them yet, simply because of the weather and the fact that I don't want to try them on the treadmill.

                   

                  My experience is that what most reviews call "just right" in terms of stack height and cushion is too much for me, and so when a review says that it has LESS cushion and stack height, and is only good for shorter distances, I start thinking it might be the perfect shoe for me...

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    Currently my debate is whether or not I just sign up for the half on May 15th at the York Marathon and wait to try my first Marathon until the fall. I could run Harrisburg or Steamtown (assuming it isn't canceled AGAIN!).

                     

                    Does it have to be York?  If you're willing to go somewhere overnight, I can think of several races that would be better choices.  I see that York is going to be a staggered social distanced start again - I keep thinking that a more traditional set up would be better for a first marathon.

                     

                    New Jersey is in April and not too far from you.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                       

                      Does it have to be York?  If you're willing to go somewhere overnight, I can think of several races that would be better choices.  I see that York is going to be a staggered social distanced start again - I keep thinking that a more traditional set up would be better for a first marathon.

                       

                      New Jersey is in April and not too far from you.

                       

                      Yes and no...

                       

                      York is the closest by far and I am familiar with the course. I figure rail trail flat and softer surface is not a bad way to start. The start waves are pace graded so I would get in with the top group, plenty of which are shooting for similar pace to my goal. I'm not concerned with atmosphere or anything like that, just having a group to really go after it with and race.

                       

                      With the kids and family, over night is almost a no go at this point, hence the other option of Harrisburg. I do have a good buddy or two in the Scranton area I could hook up with (former winner/top 3 kind of guys) who would be willing to let me crash on the couch for Steamtown if I want.

                       

                      Curious why you would suggest a tradition marathon would be better. I am honestly curious about that if you care to elaborate. I won't pretend to have all the answers :-)

                        I agree with Keen and Zebano, but I would also add that like other distances, you're not going to get it right on your first crack at it. It took me at least 3 tries before I realized a few marathon "truths" for myself, once of which is that you will go through a dark spot at some point way too early into the race and that's totally okay. Other people have their own truths, which you won't know until you run one.

                         

                        As long as you can get 5 months between races, you can run two marathons this year.

                         

                        I certainly respect that. I don't expect it to go as expected.... er wait, how does that work?

                         

                        I got lucky my first long gravel bike race (75 miles, 8000ft of climbing, crazy hard, 5.5 hrs of racing) and it went really well. The second year I did it I bonked in the first hour and barely made it 40 miles before I pulled the plug. Hoping I get a little lucky here of course.

                         

                        I'm not convinced yet that I will ever be a "marathoner". I suppose we will see about that as well.

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                           

                           

                          Curious why you would suggest a tradition marathon would be better. I am honestly curious about that if you care to elaborate. I won't pretend to have all the answers :-)

                           

                          Marathons are a very long time to concentrate - it's a different ball game, mentally.  It's easier when you've got people in sight to chase and to be pulled by.  A race that small, especially if staggered, won't offer that.

                           

                          I also think that a course that you are very familiar with can be a downside in a longer race - if you know it too well, then you don't have new things of visual interest to briefly distract you and relieve your mind.

                           

                          Finally, York is mostly on crushed stone - that sounds great but can be a bit of an energy sucker that could really add up over 20+ miles.  Plus the fact that you'll be slightly slower on that surface than you would be on the roads.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                             

                            Marathons are a very long time to concentrate - it's a different ball game, mentally.  It's easier when you've got people in sight to chase and to be pulled by.  A race that small, especially if staggered, won't offer that.

                             

                            I also think that a course that you are very familiar with can be a downside in a longer race - if you know it too well, then you don't have new things of visual interest to briefly distract you and relieve your mind.

                             

                            Finally, York is mostly on crushed stone - that sounds great but can be a bit of an energy sucker that could really add up over 20+ miles.  Plus the fact that you'll be slightly slower on that surface than you would be on the roads.

                            I agree 100% that I have to have some people to race with. No way I'm going to be able to stay focused in no-mans land. York typically has about 10-20 people between 2:50 and 3:05. Seems like a popular race to try for around 3 hrs. You think that won't be enough? They all start at the same time.

                             

                            I've run a lot on the crushed stone and typically find it pretty darn fast. Then again, it's flat and I never run flat roads. We don't have those. Last time I raced flat roads was Philly Broad Street Run back in 2007. I can see your point there. I appreciate that insight.

                             

                            Plenty of things to consider, thanks!

                              Coach: I would plan on York in the spring and then another in the fall; like JMac said 2 races in a year should be fine if you space them apart enough. York is a good way to test the waters, and then for the fall race you'll have a better feel for the distance and can really go for it. I totally understand wanting to run a local race. It takes a burden off your mind not having to travel and being familiar with the area. This is what Hartford is for me, NYC for JMac, and CIM for Cal. BTW, I ran Harrisburg in 2020 and really liked it. They modified the course that year and again in 2021 to two loops instead of 1 for covid/social distancing reasons, but if they go back to the normal course I think it would be even better. Very well-organized race. Go for sub 3 at York, then sub 2:40 at Harrisburg.

                              2:52:16 (2018)

                                Coach: I would plan on York in the spring and then another in the fall; like JMac said 2 races in a year should be fine if you space them apart enough. York is a good way to test the waters, and then for the fall race you'll have a better feel for the distance and can really go for it. I totally understand wanting to run a local race. It takes a burden off your mind not having to travel and being familiar with the area. This is what Hartford is for me, NYC for JMac, and CIM for Cal. BTW, I ran Harrisburg in 2020 and really liked it. They modified the course that year and again in 2021 to two loops instead of 1 for covid/social distancing reasons, but if they go back to the normal course I think it would be even better. Very well-organized race. Go for sub 3 at York, then sub 2:40 at Harrisburg.

                                Sub 2:40? I like your optimism, although I tend to be more of a realist. Not sure that's in the cards anymore.

                                 

                                I suppose I've been thinking of this as a one and done, do or die. I don't need to be that single minded on breaking 3 my first shot I suppose. Thanks for the perspective.