Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 half marathon in 2017
Blair congrats on your half. Ive never done 400s and Im no expert but 800s and 1000s are more reliable at predicting 5k race times. 5 x 1000s with 2 min jog rest between is pretty damn tough but gives a good 5k race prediction. A 5k is still long enough that you need a good aerobic system to run a good time.
Jmac ha you are right of course. I was going to do a 10k funrun next saturday but maybe I wont hehe. Its weird I like training and been fit but dont like the pressure of a looming race. For example I just went out for an easy run and halfway through decided to go fast and ran a sub 19 5k. I kinda like that impromptu way of doing it under my control. One of the local guys here is doing NYC marathon. Hes 50 and beat me in that last 10k I did. He ran 38 something. He mentioned he was doing NYC with a goal of 2.48 and didnt seem to think it was a hard course. I kept my mouth shut as i didnt want to be negative but I know it can be a toughish course. I reckon he will finish in a dead heat with you for a 2.55
Arvind congrats to you too.
Mark nearly game time. I have fond memories of the Auckland Marathon. I loved the course and atmosphere. You will go sub 3 and not be in the pain cave no problem !
Ive been following the thread on the subject of our sub 1.30 and the sub 3 threads pushing back other topics on the most recent list. I hope that anyone thinking of running a half can come on here and get friendly helpful advice.
It is so much easier to find here rather than in a group thread.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
My Training last week. The next 3 weeks will be tapering for my Marathon
RIP Milkman
Question to the experts: in July I was doing speed work at the track. Got to 12x400m at 85-90s per interval w 100m (~1min) brisk walk rests. Everything I read says I should be able to keep that pace (i.e. sub19) for a 5k. But I ran 2 5ks after that ( one on a flat course) and could not even PR. Do you think the tempo work from the half trainimg would help that at all? Or is that speed training so long ago that it is irrelevant? I have one more race this season and it is a 5k on a fast course (where I set my pr in april).
A few points:
1) That was definitely a long time ago
2) Never heard of running 400M intervals as a test for a 5K. As Piwi said, a standard test is either 5x1K or 3x1 mile
3) Tempo work helps almost all race distances, which is part of the beauty of it. However, of all distances we race, it's least applicable to the 5K. It will definitely help you, but nearly as much at it'll help your half, where it's the bread and butter workout to get you faster
4) If you want to race a 5K soon, the best advice I could give you is to do either 800 or 1K intervals with 3 minute rest. I like the 1K variety, but they're pretty tough. You can go up to 1,200, but that's really for people running a lot of mileage. Based on your recent half time, my calculator puts your interval pace at 3:58. So I would do something like 2 warm up, 5x1K @ 3:58 with 3 minute jog recoveries, 2 cool down.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Jmac ha you are right of course. I was going to do a 10k funrun next saturday but maybe I wont hehe. Its weird I like training and been fit but dont like the pressure of a looming race. For example I just went out for an easy run and halfway through decided to go fast and ran a sub 19 5k. I kinda like that impromptu way of doing it under my control. One of the local guys here is doing NYC marathon. Hes 50 and beat me in that last 10k I did. He ran 38 something. He mentioned he was doing NYC with a goal of 2.48 and didnt seem to think it was a hard course. I kept my mouth shut as i didnt want to be negative but I know it can be a toughish course. I reckon he will finish in a dead heat with you for a 2.55 Ive been following the thread on the subject of our sub 1.30 and the sub 3 threads pushing back other topics on the most recent list. I hope that anyone thinking of running a half can come on here and get friendly helpful advice. It is so much easier to find here rather than in a group thread.
I think I've made the point more than a few times of how helpful this thread can be. I love giving advice to others as a way to give back for all the advice I've gotten.
He's in for a world of hurt if he thinks NYC is not toughish. It doesn't look like it when you read the elevation profile, but the bridges multiply the impact. Also, when you have to run straight up a hill for mile 23, followed by rolling hills which destroy your quads, you slow down a lot. Only 3% of finishers negative split the course. There's a reason for that.
Anyway, I will virtually race him. If he thinks he can do a 2:48 at NYC off a 38x 10K, advantage goes to me
Blair - agree with Piwi and JMac - that speed work is not really a great predictor of HM times. 5km and 10km races are a useful predictor for HMs. I personally don't really bother with speed work much until the last couple of weeks before a HM just to get the legs turning over a little bit quicker. Tempo runs are good for all distances but speed work is really only something to include regularly if you are targeting a 5km or shorter distance.
JMac / Piwi- I had a quick look at the NYC marathon elevation profile... I can see what you mean JMac, aside from that first bridge, there are a lot of long-ish but not especially steep climbs - definitely some grind on that course. And that 5th Avenue climb in particular - that could definitely be blow-up territory for anyone who isn't prepared for it.
Interestingly, Strava has the total elevation gain at 290m for NYC. By way of contrast, Auckland is about 200m - which is basically all in the first half and is mainly from 4 big climbs - Old Lake Road, Lake Road, the Harbour Bridge and a nasty little hill just after the Harbour Bridge.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Blair - As the others said, 400 intervals are not that good of a predictor, I think it's too short. Good effort on your half, sounds like it might have been a case of just not having the best day, not sure.
Arvind - Great work on your half, you're getting faster for sure.
Mark - Looks like you're ready for your race!
JMac - Looking strong, wish my pace for cruise intervals was below 6/mile! I'm probably somewhere right around 7 now.
Flavio - Nice mileage!
I got my 3 runs in last week, and it was all good. Like I mentioned, the 12x400 intervals on Wednesday were good and I had a 4 mile tempo on Friday that was even better (7:00 average pace, not too strenuous, average HR below 170 for all splits, my max is 192).
Yesterday though was the best day of the week, even with a 90 minute hilly bike ride from the day before in my legs. I was supposed to run 10 miles at HM pace +20 (I'm basing it off 1:35 finishing time or 7:15 pace, so I was planning 10 at 7:35 pace), but legs my felt great and I kind of fell into a faster pace after a couple of miles, and ended up with 10 miles at 7:26 pace, where I finished with the last mile at 7:15. Average HR crept up to 165 at the end with a max of only 172. So this was almost 75% of the HM distance just a couple of seconds off my PB pace, and it felt under control the entire way. So now I'm starting to wonder what my goal pace should be at my race. I thinking of trying to up my tempo distance to 5 and then 6 miles at something close to 7:00 pace the next 2 weeks (can't remember whose strategy that was here), and see how that feels and make a decision from there. That will put the 6-miler about two weeks before my HM so I figured that gives me enough time to make an educated decision.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Blair - congrats.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Run yes the 6 mile tempo is a good predictor as long as you are running good average weekly mileage. I think for me its 50 mpw + over 12 weeks or more. Otherwise its probably closer to 10 mile race pace.
Mark i remember been so hyped and full of adrenalin that the Devonport hills were so easy. I remember slowing alot on purpose up the harbour bridge as i hadnt done many hills due to sore achilles and then catching back up to my pack down the harbour bridge at 3.30/km . Theres good crowd support through Devonport and the cafes and bays around to Kelly Tarltons and of course through the CBD. It really lifts you. My family was at about halfway too which was great.
Thanks for all the kind words on the race. Looking back, I am happy with the result. Also, my note of the course coming up long on my and a few other Strava accounts ended up becoming kind of an issue. It's the biggest race in our province (and the provincial championships) and virtually everyone had it 200m-400m long. And most (including me) agree it was an issue with the 2nd turnaround point (My GPS was pretty much on point with the KM markers to 18 and then there was the last turnaround and all of a sudden it was off by 200m). A lot of people complaining. I gave my input just so the organizers can get it together next year but I'm not exactly a top competitor so no need to complain per se but some of the coaches who had athletes with specific goals (and trying to actually be competitive in the race) weren't too happy.
And thanks for the feedback on the 5k. I had read that interval thing on an article online (the guy went on to say that some people use 5x1k or 3x1mi as indicators but that 400m intervals worked for him). I've never really done any specific 5k training so each PB has come on the training for a different distance. It is this Sunday (the snow will be here soon so this is probably the last race of the season). I'll see if I can continue the trend and shave some time off that 19:43.
Personal Bests: 5k 19:43 (04/2017), 10k 43.24 (10/2016), Half 1:33:18 (10/2017), Full 3:32:47 (05/2017)2018 Targets: 5k: sub19, 10k: sub41, Half: sub90
Piwi - We all know my mileage is crap (25 per week or so) so I'll keep that in mind . I'll keep a close eye on the perceived effort level at the end of the 6 miles as well.
Blair - Sucks with the course being long. I ran a half early this year where my watch was measuring short for most of the course, it was about 0.1 miles short at mile 10, and somewhere between then and the end there was a quarter mile difference between my gps distance and the course distance, and I crossed the finish line with 13.25 miles on the watch. Totally screwed up my timing and all and the last part of the races seemed awfully long.
Blair - Really sucks on the course. My last half had mile markers all over the place, some off by 0.2 or more, but the course itself was very close to being correct (even though it was "certified") I would adjust that 1K pace down to 3:55 based on what you said. Not much, but still something.
Rune - Some people definitely employ a strategy of running at their HM pace for 6-7 miles as a final tune up. Personally, I found it to be way too taxing. I like cruise intervals a lot, which are done at HM minus 5-10 seconds. However, if you can run 7 miles at a given pace during training (assuming your legs aren't fresh), it's a fairly good predictor of what you can do in the half if you have the endurance under your belt.
I'm in the camp that anything over 1000m is a good race predictor. I found that I can still "sprint" a 5x1000m workout with 400m jog and give me a bloated sense of my fitness. I found that 4x1200 is better...and even better than that is 3 x 1 mile with 90 second standing rest. 800's and 1000's are good for building volume and practicing that race pace...basically locking into the uncomfortable. Just my two cents, but I don't understand why people want to do 400's at race pace unless they are just getting started with speed workouts.
Piwi - the Harbour Bridge is a pain to run up but running down the other side is awesome! 3:30/km and you don't even need to work for it - perfect gradient for downhill running. It is easy to accidentally go out hard on the Devonport hills when the adrenaline kicks in (I did that big time in my first HM there but ended up getting away with it!).
My wife and daughter will be at halfway through Westhaven plus the finish so that will be good. And I run that waterfront route from the Viaduct out to St. Heliers and back often so I know exactly what I'm in for there, won't even need to think about the course and can just focus on running strong and enjoying it.
Blair - per my post a few pages back, I am always a bit skeptical about HM race distances now unless it is a certified course! I tend to assume it'll be 21.1km +/- a bit. But that is frustrating when it is long and potentially PR-impacting, and especially if it is a provincial championship where you would expect decent measurement.
Another decent week for me, as this was my third consecutive week at 50 miles.
Key workouts:
Bro - What's your racing schedule? It would be good to have it in the spreadsheet so we know what you're targeting. I know you said a half next year, but what other short races do you have this year?