Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 half marathon in 2017
Again, thanks all for the support, it is very humbling.
Jaime- good to see you made it over!
Blair/JMac - I don't think 'never again' were my first words but they were certainly in the top 10! Definitely around the 38km mark I was pretty much thinking the whole thing was just a horrible idea. I had a couple HMs where I had to grind out the last 4-5km but nothing even remotely close to marathon pain/survival.
Anyway it turns out that Auckland, as an AIMS certified course, would qualify for Boston, so I have a BQ in the bag. I don't know if that will get me out of marathon retirement though. I've come to the realisation that I really enjoy running fast, and if you look at my AG percentiles, my best is actually 79, which was a 3000m track TT I did on a whim with no specific training during marathon prep (in contrast my marathon was 71, and HM PR is 76).
Blair - with that 'long' HM under your belt I'd say you are definitely on track for a good result in May if you can get good consistent training in.
JMac- I've never trained for 5k or 10k specifically so I'm interested to hear what others think on this front as well. As it stands I think both my 5k and HM PRs will be my next takedown targets. I really like your strategy of thinking about another race to take your mind off the impending one too!! The weather forecast still looks pretty good for you for the marathon. Very sorry to see the news about the attack in NYC today as well and hoping you aren't affected and it hasn't put everyone on edge ahead of the race.
Rune - nice workout. I gotta say I'm really looking forward to a few more tough workouts once my legs are recovered. JMac and I have been having another discussion re easy run pacing and there are certainly a few weird types around who can run good times, off lower mileage, at a higher average pace. I still do most of my training off HR/effort and this stops me overdoing the effort, which is the key thing.
Flavio/Piwi - I second the recommendation to sign up for a race!
Brosendahl- thanks!! I think I had 3.5 gels in the end. Plus some electrolyte solution which has some carbs in it too. My stomach couldn't have handled any more than that. I'm not gonna pretend I didn't hit some sort of wall though because the legs and the head were very wobbly from around the 37-40km mark! Fingers crossed for you on Chicago.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Me - Last week before NYC. More importantly for this group, I'm already thinking about my spring racing season. It's funny how once I enter a taper, I'm already thinking about the next race. It keeps my mind off of the one coming up! Anyway, I really want to go for sub 17 in the 5K, but it will take a lot of work given that my legs are in marathon shape, not 5K shape. Question for the group: do any of you use plans for your 5K/10K/HM training? I've used Daniels in the past, but never tried his 5K plan. I'm also looking to do something different for my HM training just to mix it up. Any advice you have on plans you've tried would be useful!
I've tried a number of workouts from the 5k plan and followed his elite 800m plan in order to sub-5 in the mile at age 33. I wanted to use a top down approach - working on top-end speed to familiarize myself with the pain of running basically all-out.
I find some of Daniels elite workouts to be ridiculously hard to finish, while others are not much of a challenge. The beauty of his book is that he has multiple approaches to training for every race depending on the type of runner you are.
In regards to marathon vs 5k training, I've noticed that a lot people have run their best 5K races off the tail end of marathon training, taking advantage of their large aerobic base and just doing a bit of pace work to sharpen things up. My cousin is a 2:45 marathoner and claims to have no speed, yet he ran 16:45 for the 5k a few months after running just under sub-3 at Boston.
For what it's worth, I plan on using Daniels for my October 2018 marathon.
Jmac I have no excuses with races to enter as there are so many more than there used to be within 1 hour of where I live. You cant make me thread leader as i might just give up running haha.
Looking forward to your marathon and where you finish in relation to my local strava mate.
Mark I remember hearing that it takes a month or so for the ligaments to recover after a marathon so speedwork is generally frowned upon too soon after. You are strong though so could be alot quicker recovery. Boston would be cool but a bit out of my price range !
Bro sub 5 mile is a cool barrier. Ive never raced a mile but ran home one day fast for the last km and ran 3.10 but I was knackered. To hold that for another 600m would be a stretch for me.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Intl. correspondent
Hi everyone, how you doin'
Mark - Ditto to what Piwi said. Muscles recover fast from marathon, ligaments and tendons take a month. Trying to run fast now generally leads to injuries later on unless you have wolverine like recovering capabilities.
Jmac - I'd love to sign up, but being on the injury bench is not giving me much motivation. I seem to be on the mend though so who knows. The one thing I can guarantee is that I'm running a HM before the end of the year, though it will probably be a time trial.
me - functional training is showing me how much I suck as an athlete haha, I'm glad I'm not being scored on agility, strength and coordination.
On the other hand I can already feel the benefits after just one week with a slightly more stable core when running.
The injury scare is going down, I'm hoping to run at least 50km this week.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
RIP Milkman
Piwi/Flavio - All I hear is excuses from you two! And Piwi, I would make you thread leader specifically so you don't quit. You wouldn't want to leave us all hanging would you???
Mark - Living in NYC, it sadly comes with the territory. I actually do all of my long runs on the path where that guy drove the truck down, so that's a bit scary. Otherwise, I have to third what was said about the marathon. I've heard some really conservative rules about 1 day per mile of the race, so that means no speedwork for 26 days, which is where Piwi and Flavio are coming from. However, I think that rule really only applies to very new runners, older runners, or those prone to injury. I really like another rule that I've used religiously: No quality work per 3K of the race. So, for a 10K, that means you can do quality work 4 days after the race. But for a marathon, that means no quality work for 2 weeks. That actually seems about right for a marathon. After my race Sunday, I'm taking almost a full 2 weeks off. I happened to take 2 vacations during that period, but it's also good timing to take 2 weeks completely off, which I feel that I need at least once per year to both physically and mentally reset. I may get in two very light jogs, but that's it.
Bro - That's the idea! After 2 weeks off, I plan on putting in a base building period in December and then transition back into speedwork in January. Will target some very cold 5ks in late January and into February. I'll probably use Daniels again as he's effectively my coach, but maybe sprinkle in other work to mix it up.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JMac / Piwi / Flavio - I would say two weeks for no speedwork seems probably about right for me. My big HM's have been probably around 4-6 days recovery generally (other than the very first one which was over a week). My legs almost feel back to normal now, although I know there is a lot of recovery still to go. This week is only 3 short easy runs, next week I will probably look to get back to 5 runs but likely all easy and then gradually build the efforts in after that. I'm pretty excited to have a good crack at Omaha HM which is quite a quick course, off the back of marathon training, and allowing for two easy/recovery weeks I've then got 4 weeks to build towards that.
Hi, all,
Blair: I live in La Belle Province.
Re: Chicago: A friend of mine is talking me into that... I qualify by time, so that's fine, however, I'm not that sure about signing up. Someone told me the lottery is rather easy to win.
I should jump into Marathon training mode by mid-December. I'm building a base, Not sure if I do my own thing or try to follow a canned plan. So far I have done my own thing (4 week cycles based on the long run distance, where I don't do any speed at the beginning, then I do tempo and maybe some intervals, then I jump into MidLong at GMP, then the "tapir" looms) but, this time I may have more time and better base to jump in a structured plan.
Jaime hi
Jmac I dont make excuses I just say it like it is, I dont want to race . Im 7.5 years in now. The first 4 years i was mad keen as my times came down. Then I was content with jogging. I still have some fire in my belly so who knows. You will go through different running motivation levels too especially after a few years. Its normal. Main thing is Im fit, healthy and happy. The big day looming for you. I see you are analyzing the weather like crazy hehe.
Mark you should recover quickly after that marathon at your easy pace,,,,sorry I couldnt resist
Flav Ive been doing the core and body squat/lunge exercises for about 2 weeks now and already feel I have benefitted from it. I feel like I have more strength in my stride especially on workouts.
Jmac - LOL, as ex-president of the thread vote that you run it next year.
Piwi - great job with the core work, it’s very beneficial for life in general.
Piwi - I totally get what you're saying. Right now, it's easy for me because I keep getting to go for new PRs, but I have a feeling I will lose a lot of interest in this sport when that goes, which could honestly be within 2-3 years. It's really sad to think about. However, it's actually one of the reasons I'm slowly building my mileage. I figure that if I can always go to the MPW well for more PRs, I shouldn't go too deep too early.
Chicago - After watching the NYC forecast continually get worse each day, it's convinced me I probably won't sign up for Chicago. I'm panicking about having to run in 62 degree weather. What's the point of putting in an entire cycle when the average Chicago weather is right around there and you run a big chance of 70+ temps? I feel like it's better for me to either run NYC again next year, or find another marathon in the fall where average temps are in the low 50's or colder. Unfortunately, I think most marathons these days cater to the 4hr+ marathoner, who prefers warmer temps in the 60's. Most guys running sub 3's would love temps in the 40's, but you're not going to get a lot of people signing up for winter marathons around here.
Jmac I also tend to look for races that arent too slow. Maybe a mid sized marathon which is relatively flat and cool ? The major marathons while awesome for atmosphere also have alot of logistical issues. For me the 60-70 mpw mark was where I topped out and started to burn out. You have to change your mindset from competetive mode to running for fitness mode once you reduce mileage to a point that PRs are out of reach. Age starts to get you mosty through injury and the inability to cope with the training loads that create the stimulus for improvement. Enjoy the ride though its alot of fun !
JMac - I love winter, and I love the cold and there is still no way I would sign up to a marathon on the US East Coast in winter! Piwi and I did a HM here in winter 2016 in temps marginally above freezing with pouring rain, which was horrible. Even at around 40F/5C, I find it's harder work to get the legs moving quickly. I think anything between about 45-55F (8-13C) is ideal.
JMac/Piwi - I like fast races, but I'll admit I'm kinda proud that my HM and 10k PRs are both on hilly courses. Up to a point, I don't think hills actually slow you down much if you've prepared for them and can run downhill well on them. Of course if they're too steep or there's a lot of them, it'll always be hard. And yeah I can see how the majors would create big logistical issues. I like Auckland because it's big enough to have a good atmosphere and some good elites, but it's still easy to get a very good spot in the start and not too crowded.
Re PRs, I'm gonna be kinda interested to see how the motivation thing plays out for me too. I'm taking some heart from the fact that I really enjoyed training through winter here when I didn't have any races for several months, just enjoyed knocking out each run/workout - that was all working towards the marathon though. I think my plan is to focus on the shorter stuff for a little while, and then come back to marathons down the track - my FM time has definitely got improvement, but I want to make the most of the speed while I have it. The other factor is it's always fun checking out new races and trying something different. Even here in NZ there are other races I'd like to explore - Rotorua, Wellington, Christchurch, Tauranga (Piwi you can join me for that), Kerikeri, Dunedin, etc. You will have a huge selection in the US too I'd imagine even just on the eastern seaboard alone.
Ultimately I think I discovered through that marathon cycle that running is quite fun just for fitness/enjoyment/clearing the head so that will keep me going for a while. If all else fails I will just sign up for the Southern Lakes Half which is downhill all the way (net -200m)!
Mark there are certainly alot of race options here nowadays. We have the City to Surf 11km this weekend and they have added a half to that. The good thing about Auckland for you is that you get to sleep in your bed and easy commute to start. When i did it we stayed in a noisy hotel in Auckland so not much sleep and then an early ferry trip to the start. I think you are suited to hills with strong legs from your hockey/strength training and a natural ability. Im already at 1350m climbing this week as there is a papamoa hills challenge this month for most ascents and fastest time in one of my Facebook running groups. I went hard up there this morning and did the segment 1.7km 170m climb in 10.25. Its hard to pace as you go straight into lactic burn then get little recovery bits unlike a flat tempo run. Im still learning how to pace these.
And ugh that Taupo race really did a number on my legs. Impressed I actually ran 4min/km flat pace.
Well, yesterday I was supposed to do my 6-mile tempo, and hopefully get a confirmation of some sorts that my planned pace to go sub 1:33 in a little bit more than two weeks was indeed possible. Boy was this run a disappointment! Nothing seemed like it worked the way it should, and I felt way worse on this run than on any of my tempo runs the last couple of weeks. It felt like the wheels came off completely after three and a half miles, but I was determined to finish the workout regardless, even with the pace dropping 15 seconds below what it should have been. Not sure what the reason is, hard workouts on Saturday, Sunday, and Tuesday, my gymnastics strength training class the night before, or something else, or a combination of it all. Who knows? I'm sure hoping that I get a confirmation of being in better shape than this the next couple of weeks when taper starts.
Regarding racing and motivation, it can certainly be a mixed bag. We have tons of races around here, trail and road, and I could easily find a good race to do more or less every weekend. There is also a parkrun group in San Francisco with a 5k every weekend. But for me it certainly felt like a punch in the face when I toed the line on a race that I also did last year (granted, with a less than ideal lead up to the race), and I ran slower than the year before. After that I got a little bit weary of signing up for races I'd done before, especially if the week or two before would be difficult training wise, but maybe I should care too much about that. Ultimately I think it's a lot better if you can find motivation in running apart from just setting PRs, and I feel like I'm slowly getting there.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Mark - I had a really bad foot pain creep up 2 days ago. I've never had foot problems before, and it hurts enough that it impacts my running. Honestly I'm a bit worried about how it will hold up over a marathon. It's unbelievable to get this during a taper, but that's life. Anyway, it really sounds like your cuboid problem, so I'm going to a doc today to see if it is and if they can do that manipulation. Hopefully it heals up a bit, but there's a non-zero chance I DNF this marathon.