2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 181 times)


Pain is my friend

    The 48 hour is in Boise ID. About 5 hours north of me. I don't plan to sleep at all. Mt Dew all the way. The interesting thing about this race or helper, the race starts at 6 PM. That means the last 12 hours will be in the light instead in the dark.

     

    I did some race pace training yesterday. 24 miles on a flat dirt road in this bird refuge by the Great Salt Lake. The goal was to run 2 miles at a 10-11 pace and then walk for 2 min. I ended up running at a 9:15-9:30 pace and walking for 2 min. Felt easy. I will try and slow it down next time. The idea with the pacing is to keep the pace really easy and keep it for a long time. My goal pace for the first 24 hours is 12:36 per mile. You always lose time somewhere. The walk breaks rest my running muscles.  Maybe I should make my walk breaks 3 min. It feels odd walking for 2 min when there is no hill.

     

     

    You might want to be careful what you say. I self-identify as Californian; however, I'd like to state for the record I'm in agreement Californians are ruining this place.

     

    Also, I'm not sure I want to be part of any group having me as a member.

     

    The 48 hour run should be interesting. Is it in Utah or somewhere else? Any plans to sleep or for mental fortitude like "when I start to hallucinate I'll have a Mountain Dew Baja Blast so I know I'm really out of my element."?

     

     

    ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

    Bear 100 22:08 2021 

    Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

    St George marathon Oct 2:58

    ATY 24 130.969 2022 2nd

     

    Pulse endurance 12 hour 76.22 1ST CR

    July Backyard ultra 22 yards Win

    Sept Bear 100 24:08

     

    AndyTN


    Overweight per CDC BMI

      I will try to get over here more often. I have taken on the roll as the main admin for the 2024 game. The game is slowly dying. Not much talk over there. I try to get more chatter but its not working. If they don't want to chat, thats fine with me. 

      The game is dying, unfortunately. I will try to help you get more chatter on the 2024 forum but I am already trying on my own team. I have noticed that each year I have participated in the game, my team's chatter through ordinary weeks has become less and less.

       

      Strength work circuit - I am starting to like turning my boring 20-25 minute strength work sessions into 50-60 min circuit workouts. It is basically lifting weights and doing various things to keep up my heart rate up in between like running zig-zags through the house, running 400m down the sidewalk, jumping jacks, hiking up/down the stairs, etc. I know this is nothing innovative but a main reason why I have not been super consistent with strength work is because I still mileage goals with limited spare time. I do so much running around and other cardio during these circuits, I can give myself credit for 4 miles running in a 50-60 min session. My Garmin likes them too as it gives me high load scores and is usually the only time it classifies my runs/workouts as anaerobic.

      Memphis / 38 male

      5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

      mt79


        Krash - Pacing for ultras seems complex.  I don’t think I could plan for a 48 hour race.  At least with something like a 100 miler, I could guess at a pace that is sustainable.  I’m doing the running game for the first time.  There is not a lot of chatter, but I’m not sure what is normal.  Our forum is mostly folks letting us know why they won’t hit their mileage.  I do think a more interesting format would be smaller teams with similar mileages among team members, like teams of 4 and you count best 3 each week.  I think it’s harder to have a team feel when you have 1 runner at 60 miles and another at 11.

        CalBears


          Mikkey informed me he is not coming to LA - for a few reasons he didn't explain. I was not motivated to train for some reason anyway and that news from him made me even less motivated. I still running few days a week now, just no workouts.

           

          I guess it is too late for the introduction of my running history. And it is boring anyway... But I enjoyed reading others people stories - it is really fun - to read it once a year just a reminder how lucky we are doing this sport...

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile


          Pain is my friend

            Yes it can be complex. Knowing what pace you can run for a long time is helpful. I know over time you will slow down. There is few that can run the same pace for a 100 miles or more. Over 24 hours I will slow down 1.5-2 min a mile. For 24 hours? Hell! I don't know. The mental part is the key. If you said I had to run a 100 miles, that is the goal. But if when I finish you told me go run another 100, I don't think I could do it. I would try but my mind checks out soon after the race. If the goal is 48 hours, then the mind set is different. I can't give up till I hit 48 hours.

             

             

            Krash - Pacing for ultras seems complex.  I don’t think I could plan for a 48 hour race.  At least with something like a 100 miler, I could guess at a pace that is sustainable.  I’m doing the running game for the first time.  There is not a lot of chatter, but I’m not sure what is normal.  Our forum is mostly folks letting us know why they won’t hit their mileage.  I do think a more interesting format would be smaller teams with similar mileages among team members, like teams of 4 and you count best 3 each week.  I think it’s harder to have a team feel when you have 1 runner at 60 miles and another at 11.

            ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

            Bear 100 22:08 2021 

            Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

            St George marathon Oct 2:58

            ATY 24 130.969 2022 2nd

             

            Pulse endurance 12 hour 76.22 1ST CR

            July Backyard ultra 22 yards Win

            Sept Bear 100 24:08

             

            wcrunner2


            Are we there, yet?

              If the goal is 48 hours, then the mind set is different. I can't give up till I hit 48 hours.

               

               

              We have an overlooked collection of race reports on the Running Against Time FB group, including a few for 48-hours. These might help you develop a strategy.
              https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zZRvebBNmZGlByfIZnGXEBx0tNx96WXTrEZqxTNAkxU/edit?fbclid=IwAR26Q1fStLV88n0bctK0hZK-DFB80kb-149ckoMbTOAPSt9DLO0IOdw5mdw#heading=h.rpcs20n0tymw

               2024 Races:

                    03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                    05/11 - D3 50K
                    05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                    06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

               

               

                   

              Marky_Mark_17


                After a couple lighter weeks due to The Goat and recovery last week, the plan was a big speed week this week.  And it ended up being pretty much an all action week with four workouts, plus one run on Thursday that kinda turned out quicker than I expected (maybe that was the Saucony Kinvara Pro's fault).  Coatesville HM coming up next Sunday, which will be hot, hilly, and not fast, but it's still fun because it's quite a tactical race where you can pretty much chuck the usual HM pacing strategy out the window.  The last 2km are all downhill but there's some long hills through the middle so getting the balance right between pushing hard - but not too hard - makes a big difference.  Ideally you want to be running on fumes by the time you hit that final downhill around the 19km mark, but not much earlier than that.

                 

                Weekly for period: From: 29/01/2024 To 04/02/2024

                <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                in m
                29/01 That run where of course the pump fails on a public holiday 7.47 12.03 00:52:28 07:01 04:22 62
                30/01 That run where the mornings are getting darker again 11.83 19.03 01:18:04 06:36 04:06 128
                31/01 That run with a couple of hill sprints in a couple of places 7.54 12.14 00:49:54 06:37 04:07 86
                01/02 That run with new month, new shoes, old route 8.71 14.02 00:59:37 06:51 04:15 29
                03/02 That run with El Phantasmo and the Track Juice Splash-O-Rama 7.54 12.14 00:47:07 06:15 03:53 36
                04/02 That run where there sure were a lot of workouts this week 13.44 21.62 01:28:43 06:36 04:06 209

                Totals: Time: 06:15:53 - 🦅Imperial: 56.54 mi - Metric: 90.97 km

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

                Up next: Runway5, 4 May

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                flavio80


                Intl. correspondent

                  Marby - But does it not require you to stick a needle in your belly ? Not necessarily what I would call fun 😁

                   

                  Mark - Good luck at the race, it must be nice to fight for positions and forget about the time.

                   

                  me - A decent week. The time trial result means I'm clear of whatever was holding me back aerobically. Now onto working in my endurance.

                  M: 72' E

                  T: 80' with 3000m time trial in 10:42

                  W: 65' E

                  T: 90' with 60' @ 4:15 3h pace

                  F: 60' E

                  S: 60' E

                  S: 2h30 Long Run

                  Totals: 9h37 113km 70 eagles

                  PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                  Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  dktrotter


                  Dorothea

                    Thanks all for the Achilles horror stories and warnings. All noted and it's put things in perspective. I realize if I had taken 6 weeks off running when it happened in Dec., I'd probably be healed by now. Somehow, we always think we're going to be the exception, I think. I'm not sure how I feel about it being an  injury, andI can't promise that I've learned my lesson (one of the few areas where I fit the definition of stupidity--doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results), but I certainly tried to do it right this past week. PT appointments targeting both the knee and calf, with the knee feeling 200% better! Almost back to 95% capacity. And cycling seemed like a good idea until it wasn't (felt a spot of pain at the non insertional part of the Achilles yesterday during a longer ride and it was a bit sore through this morning). I see the doc for the follow-up for the Achilles tomorrow, and I need to ask her and the PT when running again seems like a good idea. Maybe I copy darkwave, again, and alternate pool running and road running days-- apropos... having a pool running buddy sounds like fun! Especially if you can do workouts in a lane pool. Right now I am stuck with community/private pools with small pockets of deep end, and I go in circles.  But I also have waterproof bluetooth headphones and have been listening to audio books, so it's not totally awful (and don't get me wrong, I know to have access to a pool at all is a privilege).

                     

                    Side note: but is it normal to not be told how much the PT is going to cost? I'm co-insured, meaning I pay 20%, the insurance pays 80, and neither  the office nor the billing department are telling me how much they're charging each session, so I have two wild card costs coming my way... and another one tomorrow unless I find out in the meantime. I hate taking a service when I don't know how much it's going to cost me.  But the PT is helping, so I do want to continue... but it's not like I don't have other PT options...

                     

                    I hope to catch up more properly again soon.

                    Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                    Last race: Community 5K, March 2nd. Speed test run with 2 walk breaks. Went pretty well.  

                    Half Crazy K 2.0


                      DK, yea, unfortunately with co-insurance, it is next to impossible to get an amount. It's probably complicated by each "proecudre" having it's own code and cost. Your first visit probably gets coded as some sort of evaluation. Then there are going to be different CPT codes for a session. Suerpvised exercises may have 1 code, getting a heat or icec pack apoplied another. I'm not really familiar with all the CPT codes used in the regular insurance world, I deal with Medicaid in schools and we have a narrow range of CPT codes.

                      dktrotter


                      Dorothea

                        HalfCrazy, oh, I do understand that there's not one cost to quote for all the sessions--and there's a difference between the eval session and each PT session. But I do kind of expect them to be able to give me ballpark figures of about how much (they just said it could be anywhere from $300 to $800, which is not helpful), and after a session, shouldn't they be able to tell me within a week how much that session cost... at least how much they billed the insurance for? Or a better ballpark figure for that? But I guess that takes time, too. Also, please don't tell me they charge for the icing?! That's something I can do at home!!

                        Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                        Last race: Community 5K, March 2nd. Speed test run with 2 walk breaks. Went pretty well.  

                        Half Crazy K 2.0


                          DK, they should at a minimum be able to tell you what procedures they did. It's been quite a while, but I remember there being 3 procedure codes on my EOB for regular PT sessions, one of those was the ice. I think it was one code for the hand bike, 1 for "supervised" exercises and 1 for ice. The ice was always applied by a tech, which is an unlicensed high school grad. I found PT to not be totally worth it. If I ever need to go on the future. I'll probably tell them I have a home gym that I use and will do a home exercise program.  What I got from the expertise was avoid overhead movements and no stretching.  Was that worth close to $1000 in co-pays, nope.

                          dktrotter


                          Dorothea

                            Yeah, I realized after posting that all the things they do with me are things I could do at home... once they show me the exercise. And there's some equipment I'd have to acquire myself, but I could find them at the gym too....

                            Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                            Last race: Community 5K, March 2nd. Speed test run with 2 walk breaks. Went pretty well.  

                            mmerkle


                              Steve I noticed a difference once I started taking in more salt. I start every morning with a supplement that has 1,000 mg of sodium. On hard and/or hot days I'll sometimes have another in the afternoon. This could be part of your issue. People like us need WAY more salt than the typical person. The weather may have been cool at that race but that doesn't mean your electrolytes were in balance. Keep us posted on how this goes.

                               

                              Flavio I tied you with 70 Eagles.

                               

                              dktrotter I had to find out costs of things when I was getting a heart monitor. You have to call the company with the corresponding code. Hope everything gets better for you soon.

                               

                              My Week

                               

                               

                              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                              in ft
                              01/29 Strides at the end. 8.54 13.75 01:10:52 08:18 05:09 499
                              01/30 TLT-2: warm up, 2 X 1 mile tempo, 1 hour easy, 2 X 1 mile tempo, cool down 14.06 22.63 01:47:14 07:38 04:44 738
                              01/31 Morning Run 8.07 12.99 01:05:27 08:07 05:02 574
                              02/01 Morning Run 8.55 13.76 01:09:14 08:06 05:02 394
                              02/02 Warm Up 2.55 4.10 00:21:03 08:15 05:08 151
                              02/02 8 X 400 with 438 jogs (Lane 6) 3.72 5.99 00:27:09 07:18 04:32 0
                              02/02 Cool Down 2.03 3.26 00:16:33 08:09 05:05 118
                              02/03 Afternoon Run 5.05 8.13 00:40:21 07:59 04:58 256
                              02/04 Steady Long 18.10 29.12 02:09:31 07:09 04:27 1053

                              Totals: Time: 09:07:24 - 🦅Imperial: 70.68 mi - Metric: 113.72 km

                               

                              I'm happy with this week. My leg speed and VO2 max seem to be improving. The long run wasn't bad. Tried a Maruten gel for the first time. They're pretty weird, but didn't upset my stomach. I'm curious how this 10k is going to go next week. Not getting my hopes up too much. 

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                mmerkle - Thanks, that's good to know.  Hopefully it arrives in time to test out on my long run on Saturday.  I've really been noticing how much I sweat lately, it's crazy.

                                 

                                Nice week with a couple of good sessions and the long run.  You're in great shape.

                                 

                                Dorothea - Hope it comes right soon.  And um, no more races until it does!

                                 

                                Flavio - That's a great week with that session and long run.  Any closer to picking a race?

                                 

                                Mark - That's a very fast week which will serve you well on Sunday.  Any clues on potential opponents?

                                 

                                Marby - I found the 1990 and 1994 commonwealth games marathons on youtube.  Mona had quite strange running style but it clearly worked, especially how easy he won it in 1994.

                                 

                                me - A slow build into the week.  I didn't recover from the big run last Saturday in terms of soreness until Friday and energy until about Wednesday.  We removed the strides from Tuesday and changed Wednesday from a lactate threshold session to an easy day.  Saturday was the first cool day for a while and I really enjoyed it.  My progression run was great fun, with my HR staying mid range for the zone 3 block, and only started touching the top of the zone 4 range in the last couple of minutes of that block.  If the weather had been hot I would have had to really roll back the pace to manage that, and even then, my HR can go off piste in the hot conditions regardless.

                                 

                                Weekly for period: From: 29/01/2024 To 04/02/2024

                                <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                                in m
                                29/01 Warm up 0.34 0.54 00:03:11 09:22 05:54 0
                                29/01 Easy hour 7.48 12.04 01:05:41 08:47 05:27 28
                                30/01 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:06 09:24 05:51 1
                                30/01 Shakeout 4.40 7.08 00:39:49 09:03 05:37 20
                                31/01 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:04 09:18 05:47 2
                                31/01 Easy med long 9.12 14.67 01:16:41 08:24 05:14 39
                                01/02 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:07 09:27 05:53 0
                                01/02 Easy hour 7.49 12.04 01:05:11 08:42 05:25 27
                                01/02 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:04 09:18 05:47 0
                                01/02 Thursday Double 3.77 6.07 00:32:34 08:38 05:22 11
                                02/02 Warm up 0.33 0.54 00:03:03 09:15 05:39 1
                                02/02 Friday cruise 6.41 10.31 00:54:31 08:30 05:17 18
                                03/02 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:08 09:30 05:55 0
                                03/02 Progression Run - 30 Z2, 45 Z3, 25 Z4, 20 Z2 16.04 25.80 02:01:06 07:33 04:42 39
                                04/02 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:04 09:18 05:47 0
                                04/02 Easy hour 7.48 12.04 01:03:28 08:29 05:16 29

                                Totals: Time: 10:13:42 - 🦅Imperial: 64.83 mi - Metric: 104.31 km

                                5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

                                 

                                2024 Races:

                                Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                                Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

                                Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

                                Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024