2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 282 times)

flavio You seem to be saying competitive is synonymous with elite. I think every elite runner is competitive but not every competitive runner is necessarily elite. I think it's more of a mindset but that's just me. I agree I'm not quite in sub 17 shape but I was hoping for something like 17:15 maybe.

dltrotter That was essentially a "season opener", or rust buster for me. The 2 mile is the beginning of the series and I'm hoping it will go better after that 5k. Like you said, there is a mental aspect to racing short that takes getting used to.

RP Awesome stuff. Looking forward to the race report.

JMac I have not done a half marathon like that yet. Maybe I should try it. Good to know that it's not weird that I find 10 + at MP to be difficult.

Steve Not focusining on previous attempts is the way to go. Those were the past.

The Week

Totals: Time: 07:51:25 - 🦅Imperial: 61.99 mi - Metric: 99.74 km

So I ran the rust buster 5k Friday evening. I felt pretty good the first mile or so, then I just settled into a pace slightly faster than, or maybe on par with 10k pace. I just felt so gassed. My legs held up just fine though. I'm sure part of it was mental. I haven't felt that 5k pain in a long time. I picked it up a bit the final lap and came through in 17:25.79 official. This is a new 5k race PR, but still not quite a "5k in any conditions PR", which remains the (net downhill) 17:15 I did half way through my life 10k PR. I'd like to think I will have this mess sorted out by the end of the year. 

mmerkle - That sounds like a pretty good hit out to me.  A few more and you'll smoke one.

mikkey - I do enjoy your banter and your marathon knowledge (and the genuine encouragement when your wife jumps on your account).  I agree with the others that stfu to a guy with tons of experience and knowledge was a bit far.  His marathon time is basically the same as yours...also, I've decided I identify as a good marathon runner.  My pronouns are "f&*k off cramp".

Flavio/CalBears - This is a confusing argument too...it seems like Calbears said we call this thread competitive but we're all slow, Flavio agreed and Calbears got offended?  We're definitely all competitive here, mostly with ourselves, even though the elites could smoke us doing a recovery run.

Dorothea - Thanks for your kind words.  Yep, I booked the mental skills guy 9 days out deliberately.  He's highly in demand and works with some of our most elites teams and athletes.  There's a chance he gets called away overseas at the last minute (my last appointment was cancelled) but I have a back up plan in that case.  I'm happy I still have 13 days!  I'm not doing a steep taper this time, just rolling into it but will obviously back off a little.  I think last year a few people here suggested this approach and my coach organically came to the same conclusion.  As for things going wrong, EVERYONE is sick at the moment.  I'm Covid immune thanks to getting in early and having it in March but I'm sure there's other bugs around too.  I'm at peace with it - I'll do everything I can to stay healthy but if I get sick I'll be gutted but I'll move on.

Nice 5km.  You might need to find a beer chiller to get a legitimate cool down...

Mark - Thanks!  It's definitely time to look at this race with purpose and confidence, and not fear.  I'll be taking the shoes on my tempo run on Saturday.

 

12-hours is currently one of my favorite events, so of course I would recommend the 12-hour on Nov. 30th.  Note this is the first year for that race, but given who it timing the race, it should be well run.

I kind of like the simplicity of running in circles and having all the stuff I need every .25 miles. Will I hate it by the end? Probably. But your endorsement certainly helps me consider it more strongly than I already was.

 

I kind of like the simplicity of running in circles and having all the stuff I need every .25 miles. Will I hate it by the end? Probably. But your endorsement certainly helps me consider it more strongly than I already was.

There's often a lot more interaction with other runners in the fixed time races than in marathons because of the short laps.  There's also the frequent feedback on your pace and position.  With Mike Melton timing you'll be able to see your lap count, lap time, total distance, place, and probably some other information.  If you have crew with you, it's better to have them check and pass on the info so you don't have to slow down to read the monitor.  If you're really competitive about it, your crew can also check on the other runners and let you know how far ahead or behind they are.

Dave, I've done cruise deck runs before and the most bizarre part was the GPS tracking. Since you're moving forward with the boat, the GPS tracks you slower when you run against the ship and twice as fast with it. Glad you got that needed recovery. That track meet sounds really cool. I'd love to have something like that down here! But I agree about evening races... I don't mind racing as much as having trouble sleeping after it. Is it one meet with all the events? Or a series with a different event every week?

 

I recorded one deck run, which some of you may have seen on Strava. With the short loops, the movement of the ship overwhelmed everything else. The map just looks like a long stretch in the ocean; maybe you could see the loops if you zoomed in enough, but I didn’t try. In 40 minutes it had me going 15 miles; my watch beeped a mile about every 2.5 minutes, lol. When it came over to Strava, a message popped up “this activity will be marked private unless you change the activity type.” I searched all the activity types and found there was one for sailing, which seemed appropriate. When I set that, it converted the distance to nautical miles and the speed to knots, lol. 

On the track meet—it’s (basically) all events, every week. The exceptions are that they alternate weeks between the 1500m and mile, and between 3000m and 5000m. It has a fixed schedule of events, so for example every week the 1500/mile is at 8:25, and the 3000/5000 is at 9:10.

 

I kind of like the simplicity of running in circles and having all the stuff I need every .25 miles. Will I hate it by the end? Probably. But your endorsement certainly helps me consider it more strongly than I already was.

I have no real interest in ultras, but if I ever do take the plunge I kind of have one picked out. There’s a race here every March with 5 hr and 12 hr options, consisting of 3-mile loops around a lake. I feel like I have a pretty high tolerance for boredom anyway, but this setting seems a bit more interesting than a track. There’s always a lot of people and activity around this lake, so plenty of visual distractions. The 3 miles seems good to me because it’s long enough that every loop is bumping up your distance a decent amount, but short enough that “just one more loop” does not seem too intimidating.

 

wcrunner - of course you do not need to run fast to be a successful coach. But if you didn't run a successful marathon and continue advising others the training that failed to deliver a fast marathon and open your potential, something is definitely wrong, I think.

Just because my AG rating for the marathon is less than my rating for shorter distances doesn't make my marathons less successful.  Granted a few of my marathons haven't been successful; I've been very inconsistent.  But I have several very successful marathons when you compare them to my fitness at the time as indicated by other races and also my performance compared to other runners I've raced against.  Running 2:56 two months after running 1:25 for a HM would, I think, count as successful.  I would also count as moderately successful beating a fellow runner by 8 minutes who had finished several minutes ahead of me at Boston. That was a particularly interesting race because I moved up from 40th at halfway to finish 18th OA in a small field.

You also keep ignoring that one may be better suited for shorter races than they are for the marathon, but still expect marathon times to be as good as those in shorter races.

 

Just because my AG rating for the marathon is less than my rating for shorter distances doesn't make my marathons less successful.  Granted a few of my marathons haven't been successful; I've been very inconsistent.  But I have several very successful marathons when you compare them to my fitness at the time as indicated by other races and also my performance compared to other runners I've raced against.  Running 2:56 two months after running 1:25 for a HM would, I think, count as successful.  I would also count as moderately successful beating a fellow runner by 8 minutes who had finished several minutes ahead of me at Boston. That was a particularly interesting race because I moved up from 40th at halfway to finish 18th OA in a small field.

 

You also keep ignoring that one may be better suited for shorter races than they are for the marathon, but still expect marathon times to be as good as those in shorter races.

Totally fair point.

Everyone has distances they are better or worse at.  You wouldn't expect anyone to have the same age-graded % across every distance.  That doesn't mean they don't have insights about what might work or not in training for a particular distance.

In my view (and again I'm paraphrasing Steve Magness here), there's no substitute for putting in the work.  Run enough races and you've got enough of a sample of what worked well, and what didn't, to be able to talk credibly to it.