3:20 Marathoners ... New and Improved for (the rest of) 2017 (Read 372 times)

NACN:  Interesting that less mileage worked for you.  I think I need some weeks above 85 to be successful, although I wonder if I'm getting too old to maintain that.

arvind:  Congrats, even if you slowed toward the end.  Pacing a marathon perfectly is difficult.  I agree with Dwave that a few of those early miles were, perhaps, a bit too fast, and with ilana that it wasn't a wall but a fade...and I probably would've done the same thing.  controltech's comment is interesting.  I don't usually drink Gatorade until late in a marathon, when I can no longer digest GUs, and I typically take a GU 15 minutes before the start and then try to take one every 45 minutes after that.  But I know that McMillan suggests that glycogen depletion training runs may have some benefit, so perhaps it is something to consider.

ilana:  I'm not sure what to make of your diagnosis, but I'm glad to hear you are getting back to mountain biking.  Running can't be too far off.

max:  I probably won't have time to read your RR until Thanksgiving.  By that point, you'll probably have run somewhere between 3 and 10 more ultras.

Runnerjones:  Hi, and congrats!

Hey to everyone...

Next up for me is the Black Canyon 100K (and I'm in the Western States lottery for the first time, so there's about a 1% chance I'll accepted for that).  So I'm working on getting my mileage up, mostly at the low end of aerobic.  Following a week of rest after the last marathon, the last three weeks were 68.4 @ 8:50OA, 71.4 @ 8:37OA, and 73.6 @ 8:36OA.  Doing one tempo workout per week, plus some easy/moderate hills at 3% and 6% incline.  Hoping this will also function as a base building phase for a marathon sometime in the spring/summer of 2018...maybe Grandmas again.

bone health conversation- i'm reading a book right now called Eating Animals and it states the fact that the countries with the highest occurrence of osteoporosis are those which eat the most dairy (like the US), ie higher calcium intake. I didn't read the literature about the study so I don't know details, but dwave it seems you are on to something (with the vitamin D instead of calcium) as per usual

our team racing circuit had a half marathon today.
calbears came out of the woodwork - this is where i saw him last, one year ago - but sadly i didn't see him. i think he got to chat with kinase though. she ran a great race in 1:31. she's coming back super steadily from injuries she had a year-ish ago. she should run a really strong race at CIM.

i think i spotted jim by the finish line? didn't see him at all during the race though. but his RBS and RBD did give me some baby wipes by the portapotties which had run out of TP. "RBS is a climber so she carries these around with her," RBD said. I was thinking, I know - she climbs with jim!
i was trying to do a LR workout, with 10@MP and then 3.1@LT. i did manage 10 of the miles at roughly MP, average, but instead of speeding up for 3 i had some kamikaze slow miles in there. my legs felt like lead from the start - did a "block" of two big volume+intensity weeks in a row, and this was the tail end of those. even still, would have been nice to push through and hold the MP. but there's something about toeing the line knowing it's a workout and not a race which makes it easier to let things slip without caring. bleh. my mind is not in a good place these days. anyone have tips on mental training?!

dwave, nice 8k!

arvind, congrats on the marathon!

OMR- hello!! that sounds like some great training. keep up the good hills!

rovatti - that's a lot of miles.  what's next for you?

a guy i know ran a 2:55 today at a marathon with a 5000ft elevation drop (spread through the bulk of the mileage, so like -5% grade down most of the way). he has facebook, twitter, insta, strava-ed, etc etc about a billion photos of "BQ!" "PR!" his medal, his results, etc (not mentioning the nature of the course, naturally). this is rather annoying.

week:

= 65mi.

clarification on tuesday's workout... it's 6x(800m on, 800m off)+400m "all out", in which "on" is 10k pace and "off" is MP. it's all continuous, and MP is the "recovery" from the 10k pace portions. i was targeting 6:36 as 10k pace and 7:20 as MP, which would be 3:18 / 3:40 for the respective 800s. pacing on this one is tough, though, but i came close enough. i let most of the girls in my training group go as they ran the first on/off in 3:03/3:25 or so ...sorry y'all but my 10k pace is not 6:06 and my MP is not 6:50 (and neither is yours!).

i was looking back on my training log and noticed I've only done 2 LRs this cycle at 20 miles or longer. this feels low. i've done 8 runs in the 17-18mi range, though (this includes long track nights). obviously there's nothing i can change about this now, but out of curiosity, does anyone here operate in that range? what are your typical #s for a 2.5 month marathon training block?

I'm on the low end of long run quantity, usually only wind up with a single twenty (or longer, but rarely longer).  I'm also the one lacking endurance compared to a lot of folks here so probably not a coincidence.  Not sure that's what you want to hear.  I do have a couple of OK races with my slacker plan.  Flying pig I can't remember how many long runs, but I did track for 12 straight weeks and I think that was just as important.  (Coincidentally I have 6 straight weeks right now and I'm feeling like I have regained some shape for the first time in a couple years).

Thanks to everyone for the welcomes and congratulations.  I'm pretty happy with the way Richmond turned out, as it gives me a BQ-5 for 2019.  It's also interesting because it's the first time I've gone under 3:20 without following my usual training plan, Hansons Advanced.  I've been putting in miles this year, with just under a 50 mpw average, but most of it's been at an easy pace of between 8:00-8:30, and distances have been whatever I feel like doing that day.  I've skipped any speedwork and only done tempo runs on the rare days I have to run on the treadmill.  I've done a bunch of races this year (2 10-milers, 6 halfs, and 5 fulls), but several of those were done with friends/family and not really at race-pace.  I tried to go sub-3:20 at Chicago this year, but I don't do well in the heat and struggled to the finish in 3:32.  Richmond had better temps and I was able to hit 3:18.  It's very interesting how much fitness I maintained from last year just running mostly base miles this year.  Has anyone else had this experience?

rlk - 2 20-milers and 8 more runs of 17+ seems like more than enough endurance work, at least to me.  I've used Hansons Advanced plan in the past, which tops out at 3 16-milers, so your LRs look more than sufficient.

While I am working on my next race. have a few questions. I have been cross training 5 days a week in addition to the 55+ miles per week. I was following the Run Less Run fast method, hence most of my training runs were on the faster pace.

I am thinking of increasing my mileage to may be 60 or 70 miles per week and lots of slow runs. Should I continue my cross training at 5 days per week or it is ok to skip the cross training (may be 1-2 days per week cross train) and substitute that with running?

vit D - I think sun exposure works better than supplements.  I once tried taking 5000 IU daily for two months and my level (25-OH vit D) didn't budge.  Sun exposure worked.

NACN's success with "low mileage" - Note that 60mpw (on 6 days/wk) over 20 weeks ain't chopped liver... and this was on top of years of heavier mileage.   However, it does seem like more emphasis on key workouts and recovery (as opposed to just volume) is more important for a developed/experienced runner.

ETA: Dad - that's a nice Tues TM workout!

Ilana - I'm glad to hear the good news about the hip healing.

DWave - Another good week.

Jones - Congrats on your race!

Ace - Bummer there's no baby yet. My brother was ~3 weeks late. I don't know if docs would let a pregnancy go that long any more.

OMR - Best of luck on the lottery.

Rovatti - Solid week again.

RLK - Great week as well.

Arvind - I'm no expert on cross training, but I would drop down to 1-2 days of XT, with most of your runs being easy, conversational runs. Basically use these to increase aerobic endurance, which will help you go longer (and possibly faster) in races. It takes time to build up that endurance, though.

I'm really jealous of the great weeks being posted. DD2 infected DD1 and myself at the end of last week, and nights have been particularly rough. First with DD2 waking up all the time Firday night, then DD1 Saturday night, then myself last night. No running for me the past several days, but I should have an awesome 6 pack by the time I'm through coughing! Here's hoping this passes before the race this weekend, and so I can start building mileage back up ahead of my spring training season.