2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 653 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

    I can't believe nobody's discussing London....

     

    (I'm not discussing it because I haven't watched it yet, though I know who won...)

     

     

    My week:

    64 miles, 1000 yards of swimming, and 3 hours of pool-running
    M: 65 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
    T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 400/800/1200/1200/800/400 + 2x200m in 97, 3:16, 4:56, 4:53, 3:12, 90 and then 42 and 42. 76 second recovery after the 400, 3 minutes recovery after most of the other intervals (3:30 after the second 1200 due to track congestion). Full recovery for the 200s. Followed with leg strengthwork, 500 yards swimming, and streaming yoga.
    W: 12 miles very easy (9:25), plus drills and 6 hill sprints, followed by streaming yoga.
    Th: Upper body weights/core and 70 minutes pool-running.
    F: 12 miles, including a tempo workout on the roads of 2x2 miles at 10 mile race effort with 5 minutes jogging recovery (13:37 as 6:49/6:48 and then 13:16 as 6:41/6:35), then full recovery before 6x30 seconds hard, 30 seconds easy. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards swimming
    Sa: 12 miles very easy (9:19) plus drills and 6 steep hill sprints, followed by streaming yoga.
    Su: 15 miles progressive, split as first 5 averaging 9:05, next 5 averaging 7:59, next 5 averaging 7:05, plus mile cooldown. Followed with streaming yoga, leg strengthwork, and 45 minutes pool-running.

     

    Got my lousy right ankle examined by a fancy ultrasound this week.  The good news was that I appear to have two healthy parallel posterior tibial tendons in that ankle now - the doctor agreed with my hypothesis that at some point one tendon decided to unzip down the middle and turn into two.  There is no horizontal tear across the fibers, so no concerns about a potential rupture.  And there's good blood flow to the tendon(s), which indicates healthy tissue.

     

    The less good news is that she could not find my anterior talo-fibular ligament (the other thing that we were double checking) at all.  I'm not sure what to make of that - presumably if the thing decided to tear completely she'd be able to see the remnants of it.  I'm not sure what this means for the plan to treat that ligament with PRP - the PRP injections are ultrasound guided, and I'm not sure how one works around not being able to find the ligament.   I'll just wait for the doctor to tell me what to do.

     

    In the meantime, my fitness is improving quickly, and I was really happy with Friday and Sunday's workouts.  Of course, both were in fantastic weather on a very fast route - that never hurts.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


    Elite Jogger

      Well I thought London was a lot more exciting than expected after the Bekele DNS....and so Kipchoge is human after all!  He was cold and shaking during his post race interview and it just wasn’t his day (he also mentioned a blocked ear and some cramping during the race). But the sprint finish was incredible and that very final kick from Kitata!!!!  I was also observing Mo (pacing a slower group) and he was literally looking at his watch and looking behind him every few seconds to make sure everyone was keeping up!  I was also very impressed with Sara Hall who ran a great race and went from 10th to 2nd place. She looked over the moon when the top 3 posed for photos at the finish line....but 3rd place Chepngetich had a face like thunder and probably thinking...get me outta this wet miserable city ASAP. 

      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

        London had some big surprises for sure. Kipchoge is human after all. Too bad he had a cold or whatever the issue was. I'm sure he'll bounce back and be ready for Tokyo. It was great to see Sara Hall's finish; she made up so much ground in that last km or so!

         

        DW: Solid week with some nice workouts. Also more interesting news on your ankle! With all your experience and knowledge on running, have you ever considered coaching? I'm always surprised you have a coach yourself; if anyone on this thread is capable of self-coaching it would be you.

         

        My week was not very interesting other than the time trial today. I ran easy all week, and meant to run Friday but it was raining hard that morning and I could not bear the thought of running on the treadmill so I took it off. So I was well-rested for the time trial. It went well; I ran 60:26 which is 1:31 faster than 2 years ago when I did the same thing, also on the track, prior to my PR marathon. Thus I hope it means I am in sub 2:50 shape. The first half or so of the TT was fairly comfortable, but around 20 laps I entered a kind of dark period where I started thinking of various points to stop it early. Fortunately I did not stop, but the last 8 laps or so were a real grind. I admit I had hopes (delusional) of breaking 60 min, thinking if I kept it at around 6:00 or just under per 1600 for the first 8 miles or so, I could pick it up the last 2 miles and get under 60. Well, there was no acceleration to be found in those last 8 laps; I tried to and my legs told me to go f*#% myself. The time at 36 1/4 laps (1600m to go) was around 54:23, and I knew there was no way in hell I was running a 5:37 last 1600. In a way it was kind of a relief. If it had been 54:05 or 54:10 I would have killed myself and likely still would have ended up missing it. Maybe with another year of training sub 60 will be possible.

         

        This week will be all easy to recover from the TT and let the training benefit of it really sink in.

         

                Distance   Pace   Gain
        Tue   Morning Run   10.16   8:09   640
        Wed   Rainy morning run w/ 1 fast mile   10.12   8:02   640
        Thu   Morning Run   10.15   8:18   633
        Sat   Trails in Sega Park   6.23   8:42   564
        Sun   Warm up   2.58   7:59   0
        Sun   10 mile (16,100m) time trial: 60:26   10.18   5:56   0
        Sun   Wobbly cool down   2.20   8:57   0

        Total distance: 51.61 mi

        2:52:16 (2018)

          JT I saw your time trial on Strava, very impressive! A nice 36 min 10 000m in there too.

           

          Mo looked like he was jogging while pacing. He has an annoying slow loping stride that the other runners must hate as it looks effortless.

          50+ PBs -  

          5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

          10k 38.55 oct 19 strava run

          Next race Tauranga city to Surf 11km Nov 1st 2020

          Mount Maunganui half 10k 28th nov 2020

          " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

          Somewhere in between is about right "      

           

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            40 mile week. It was kind of enjoyable and kind of forced. Smoke blew in and ruined the air for two days, then the 90F heat came with it so I really wasn't prepared to run. I'm not as consistent as before and I had to pretty much force myself to get 40 miles by Sunday. At least the Sunday run was an easy one. I'm holding onto hope there will be a Boston marathon 2021 I'll be able to show up at. Maybe I'll be in great shape by then if I base build now.

            2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

              JT I saw your time trial on Strava, very impressive! A nice 36 min 10 000m in there too.

               

              Mo looked like he was jogging while pacing. He has an annoying slow loping stride that the other runners must hate as it looks effortless.

               

              Thanks Piwi. Great 5k by you recently; that age-grading is very impressive. Are you aiming for a sub-18? I think you can do it!

               

              I've always thought Mo kind of over-strides. Obviously it has worked well for him but I wonder if he could have done even better with a bit shorter stride and higher turnover. I wonder if he's cursing himself for not racing London instead of pacing; since Kipchoge and Kenny weren't a factor he might have been able to win it.

              2:52:16 (2018)

                JT if I can stay motivated and consistent I would love to get back to sub 18. I dont think I can do it on 50 mpw. I may need 60.

                I saw a youtube video https://youtu.be/andAaS6Lyc8

                comparing Kipchoge side by side with Kitata and in slow motion it was very apparent that Kitata overstrides while Kipchoge is immaculate.

                Kitata has an unusual long low to the ground stride.

                50+ PBs -  

                5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

                10k 38.55 oct 19 strava run

                Next race Tauranga city to Surf 11km Nov 1st 2020

                Mount Maunganui half 10k 28th nov 2020

                " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

                Somewhere in between is about right "      

                 


                Elite Jogger

                  Piwi - You are pretty much in 18min 5k shape already and just need to run on an all tarmac course next time! Are you not tempted to buy a pair of VFs for your half? Keep a look out for the originals as you might be able to get them cheap now!

                   

                  JT - Really impressive TT on the track. 👍

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                    Piwi: I think 50 miles/80km a week is plenty for 5k training; to me the main thing for that is some solid interval work. Just be careful you don't get a calf strain!

                     

                    Thanks Mikkey for the kind words. I'm still sore from it but in a good, not-injured way.

                     

                    This week has 2 big running events: first is the 10,00m WR attempt by Cheptegei, then Mark's marathon where he will break 2:30. The weather in Valencia looks on the warm side to me for tomorrow evening: about 71 deg F, dew point 58-59 F. But compared to what he ran his 5k WR in this will be chilly. Any predictions?  I think he'll definitely go sub 26:10, and put the odds at 50% that he'll break 26 min. For his 5000 WR he averaged 60.4 per lap for 12.5 laps; to break 26 he needs only 62.4 per lap for 25 laps. Should be no problem for him 

                    2:52:16 (2018)

                    weatherboy80


                      Just chiming to say way to go on the TT JT!!  Amazing the amount of focus something that long takes to run alone like that.   Recover well.

                       

                      Thinking Kipchoge lost a bit of mental focus with Bekele pulling out the day before, but even so just shows how dominate he has been over the long haul.  Amazed to see the final kick Sarah Hall had on that final lap.  She must have been sub 4 for a good bit?


                      Solid looking week there Darkwave!

                       

                      Piwi: Also agree with JT that 50 is usually good enough for 5K training.

                       

                      Me: Guess since I'm finally building for what looks to be an actual live HM race in late November I'll start posting my weeklies again Smile    Highlight of the week was an actual in person 10K race that I was able to attend.  Given that it is still basically summer here had to limit my expectations a bit but based on a recent 16:26 5K time trial in fairly similar conditions about a month ago was hoping to be able to hold somewhere under 5:30 pace and target something close to low 34 range, but from the get go realized this was unlikely.  Weather was as expected about 78 degrees and 100% humidity.  Better than some recent days here but obviously nowhere near ideal.  It was on a portion of the same course I ran a sub 76 HM last fall so there are some rolling hills along the out and back course right along the river.  Nothing huge like anywhere else but for FL they are a bit of challenge.  First mile was on a gentle uphill and I was behind another runner for the first 0.5 mile but then passed him before mile one even finished and never again had anyone in front of me so it turned into yet another TT.  Really like it when someone is there to help hold and push that pacing.  Clocked in the first mile right at around 5:39 and knew based on the that effort that even holding this pace would be a challenge today.  Course leveled out for mile 2 and hit right about 5:36 for that split but breathing and effort were already quite high.  Turnaround point was just before mile 3 and that was another slight uphill so I the pace backed off a bit to about 5:40.  Efffort level already felt like an all-out 5-10K type effort way too early and my right knee was experiencing just a bit a pain for some reason but I kept pushing to see if that would dissipate towards mile 4.  Mile 4 finally felt a bit better on the flat and clocked a 5:33 split.  At this point I was running into some of slower 5K walkers and runners so took a bit of effort to clear out the road.  Mile 5 had probably the toughest slight uphill and it showed the slowest split right around 5:40.  Mile 6 and the last 400 meters were down a gentle slope back into the city and was finally able to push the pace just a bit clicking in at 5:31 for that split and just a bit faster for final turns towards the finish.  Course was likely a bit long, but no complaints since it was an actual event.  Whole race felt like a struggle whereas my TT from a few weeks ago I surprised myself with how good that felt even in similar conditions.  Probably also a result of the conditions, lack of taper and volume, and previous workouts in my legs from earlier in the week.  BTW, the Deek's quarters workout is no joke either Wink

                       

                      As for my goals this training cycle not really following a by the book training block other than alternating some speed workouts and lots of threshold type volume mixed into longer efforts twice a week while sustaining ~80 mile weeks.  Hoping to be able to hit a 5K and target a HM PR when the weather finally abates, but just happy to have something on the calendar for the time being at least.

                       

                      Weekly for period: From: 09/28/2020 To 10/04/2020

                      Date Name Distance
                      in mi
                      Duration Avg Pace
                      per mi
                      Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      09/28/2020 Hills of Dagobah 12.11 01:35:30 07:53 568
                      09/28/2020 Afternoon Run 4.11 00:33:30 08:09 16
                      09/29/2020 EZ + strides 11.31 01:32:33 08:11 10
                      09/30/2020 Long warm up 5.30 00:45:11 08:32 20
                      09/30/2020 Breezy Deek’s quarters (9x400 w/ 200 float) 3.25 00:18:27 05:41 10
                      09/30/2020 Cool down 4.21 00:34:28 08:11 16
                      10/01/2020 Morning Run 11.30 01:35:25 08:27 20
                      10/02/2020 Morning Run 10.26 01:22:41 08:04 33
                      10/03/2020 Thinking I got my $ out of these shoes 🤔 5.31 00:42:08 07:56 20
                      10/04/2020 Warm up 2.41 00:21:50 09:04 46
                      10/04/2020 Soupy Red Carpet 10K 6.29 00:35:10 05:35 82
                      10/04/2020 Cool down 7.11 01:02:30 08:47 75

                      Total distance: 83 mi

                      5K: 16:15 (3/20)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

                        Mikkey I haven't got a half booked but my 10k is delayed till the end of November. I haven't considered buying the VF shoe as my wife would divorce me 

                         

                        JT exciting to see how both Mark's and Cheptegais races go.

                        Yeah you guys are right on 5k mileage. I just need to be specific with the training. I have no plan right now.

                        I barely know what type of run I'm going to do until I head out the door each day at 5.30am 

                         

                        Weatherboy damn nice 10k well done.

                        50+ PBs -  

                        5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

                        10k 38.55 oct 19 strava run

                        Next race Tauranga city to Surf 11km Nov 1st 2020

                        Mount Maunganui half 10k 28th nov 2020

                        " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      

                         

                          Geb thinks Cheptegei will break the WR and maybe even break 26 min, see this article:

                           

                          https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/stories/news/detail/joshua-cheptegei-10-000m-world-record-valencia/

                           

                          Weather: Good to see you here and congrats on a great 10k in hot conditions! That's great you have a half lined up later. I'd like to give the Deek quarters a try, maybe after this cycle when I'd like to focus on shorter stuff like 2 miles and 5k.

                          2:52:16 (2018)

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                            The final kick for Sarah Hall was awesome. Just hammered down and gutted through a ton of pain to PB/PR. She beat her time at CIM so this settles how easy CIM is. It's harder than London. 

                             

                            in other news....I'm giving up on Boston 2021 happening BUT I'm going to use it as motivation to train and hit my 40 mile minimum. 40 was previously a big number for me and now it's just a bottom of the barrel number I want to keep just so some kind of fitness remains. It's easy for me to just bail on it all and I keep coming back here and Strava to see I'm one of the few people NOT training for something.

                             

                            https://www.ktvn.com/story/42734372/boston-delays-school-reopening-plan-after-virus-cases-surge

                            This is why I'm giving up hope on Boston. If kids can't go to school we can't have visitors from other states or countries. I'm sure my Air BNB won't be happy when I cancel in March and I still expect him to cancel due to me reserving it for dirt cheap about 9 months ahead of schedule. Oh and my plane ticket is booked.

                             

                            oh yeah and also this....

                             

                            https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/fauci-there-could-be-300000-to-400000-covid-deaths-unless-precautions-taken/ar-BB19LOAn

                             

                            "Fauci added that a vaccine likely won't be widely available until next summer or fall. That timeline is in line with a prediction by CDC Director Robert Redfield, who warned the Senate Appropriations Committee last month that it would take about six to nine months to vaccinate the public once a vaccine is approved."

                             

                            So Marathon season 2021 is already postponed and I was REALLY looking forward to my friend running CIM this year for his debut and getting a BQ-5 for 2022.

                            2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.


                            Elite Jogger

                              The final kick for Sarah Hall was awesome. Just hammered down and gutted through a ton of pain to PB/PR. She beat her time at CIM so this settles how easy CIM is. It's harder than London. 

                               

                               

                               

                              I personally think I’d find the 19 lap course physically easier than the original London Marathon course.....maybe I’ll get to run this new lap course next year....on day Tuesday....wave 153 at 2pm. 

                               

                              Re Boston - I’m going to cancel my hotel booking for April as there’s no way it’ll be happening in Spring. Are these panel of Boston experts going to make an announcement about the race after the election then? 

                               

                              Weather - Congrats! I like that you go by feel and still able to run a great race and finish strong. 👍

                              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                JTReeves - really nice week and good TT.  I still can't wrap my mind around 10 miles on the track.  I find track tempos mind-numbing and only did them because my team did.

                                 

                                (incidentally it looks like track tempos are likely a thing of the past for me.  Running fast in circles is hard on my ankles so it makes sense to limit it to once a week, and I find the team environment much more helpful for intervals (Tuesday) than for tempos (Friday).

                                 

                                With all your experience and knowledge on running, have you ever considered coaching? I'm always surprised you have a coach yourself; if anyone on this thread is capable of self-coaching it would be you.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                So...I'm flattered.  My answer is maybe yes eventually, but not right now.

                                 

                                I think that it is just about impossible to simultaneously truly coach well and also reach one's own full potential.  To be your best in running, you need to be selfish at times; to coach well you need to focus on others over yourself.  I think I still have some PRs and good performances in me - I'd like to focus on those for now, and focus on others later.

                                 

                                Also worth noting that the coaching market is oversaturated right now.

                                 

                                Piwi - I keep thinking that Mo's stride is what prevents him from being a truly great marathoner to match his ability at the 5K.  Just not quite efficient enough.  He doesn't glide.

                                 

                                Weather - good to see you back here!  IMHO 78 degrees with 100% humidity is not PR conditions....

                                 

                                Which half in Florida?  I'm entered in the Rehoboth Half in December but not sure if that will happen.

                                 

                                Running Problem - I wonder if Boston 2021 will first get pushed back to the fall?

                                 

                                And wow, those Valencia races were great!

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.