Forums >Racing>2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber
RIP Milkman
Thanks everyone.
We certainly went out way more back then than we do now, and that would've made things hard.
This is the one thing that does make me wonder whether it will be okay, as a lot of my "stress" from running is when we go away from a weekend and I need to get in a 20 miler at 7 PM on Sunday (like last night). Those days are obviously going to be over for a while. But I'm also finding that the marathon grind in general is getting tiresome, so even if the kid didn't come along, I think I might have been reaching my limit with the distance.
In my head, it put a nail in the coffin of running as intensely as I do for all distances, but I put that "shorter races" caveat in there as I can see myself getting antsy with completely quitting. I do think marathon training though will be too much, especially now that I've reached the 80 MPW barrier and I can't imagine going higher than that, which would be required as I get older to keep PR'ing. I know I excel at the marathon, but the time training suck is so high.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Cobra Commander Keen
JMac - Great news, buddy! I know you'll probably hate to hear it, but having a personal treadmill saved my running when DD3 showed up.
At the risk of being one of the few to try tossing in something running related, here's my week:
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
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mikeymike - Hope ankle heals quickly. With a lot of trail running on rocks and roots - I light / medium roll ankles a lot in the past, but have learned to quickly go with it to not hurt them too bad.
My training continues to progress nicely after 6+ years off ... with a few periods 7-10 weeks training before stopping. 2017 I made a bit of a comeback attempt. Now I have decided to take a more slow and steady approach and to stop expecting anything I can accomplish now will compare to the past.
My training for the 1st half of 2020 will have a primary goal of weight loss = Miles + Vertical 1st - Not as much structure. I have added 2 light speed sessions a week: 20 minutes @ LAT and 10x1 minute striders @ 1 mile pace. I am willing to sacrifice the quality of these light speed sessions for weight loss efforts
I also started lifting weights, + core & plyo 2 to 3 times a week. Upper body muscle may not be ideal for faster running, but at 50 years old, I am happy to build what I can. My goal is to get my max bench >= 300 pounds by the time of my May marathon.
I am enjoying reading about every ones training and racing ... struggles and accomplishments.
Stay healthy!
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
Stotan Disciple
JMAC Congrats on the the pregnancy. I have to agree with Andres, You just never know.
Weather welcome back, your fortitude is amazing, once I'm off my body takes a while to resume natural paces.
Mikkey sorry about the ankle its a weird coincidence as I rolled mine this morning its only the third time in my experience. pain quickly went away. It helps that I ran on the beach mostly as a kid so its never been to the point of injury just a sharp pain that hurts for 1-2 hours at most. I also have somewhat high arches.
To no one in particular After watching the elites at NB Grand Prix Did a little push this morning trying to run with the good form they exhibited, the mental concentration was exhausting. No wonder so many of us hobby joggers have such poor bio-mechanics, sloppy is efficient and requires no thinking. Needless to say I made it to 800M before my stride completely fell apart. Something to work on in 2020.
One mile of good form a day until its natural or I give up..
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
I have a question for this group, but first a little bit of context.
I never used to run hills. I started to run them in the fall because I got a Stryd power meter and was checking it out. Then came winter, and I couldn't do intervals anymore so I thought about the old saying "hills are speed work in disguise" and started hitting a nearby hill. It's about one minute long when I push hard, and could make it in 55 seconds if I pushed really hard. The hill is well salted most of the time so it's a workout available to me pretty much all through winter. I can still usually find options to do Tempos, but the speed work is a problem.
Now my question is, for flat road race training, how would you say running 60 seconds hills rank compared to running 800s, for example? Just as good? Better? Not as good?
My wife and I are now expecting our first kid in July, so that pretty much put the nail in the coffin as I will have to take on a pretty big burden with the child vs. my wife who works a more demanding job. I'm also not a morning person as you people know, so there's no way I want to run 70+ MPW and wake up at 5 am to do so. I want to train hard for this Boston and go out on top. Maybe I'll run marathons in the future, but I think this will be my last attempt at a lifetime PR. As I said with CIM though, if I end up with a 2:36 lifetime PR, I will be happy. I probably will be willing to keep attacking shorter PRs given the training is much less of a time suck.
Taper Czar: Just had my second kid and in the midst of marathon training. I used to absolutely hate mornings and waking up would take me at least 30 min but trust me you can learn to love mornings. When you have a kid (if they sleep decent, waking up around 7 - 8) mornings are free time which is invaluable not only as a runner but as a parent.
I'm not training for anything as serious as Boston but when I get into my high mileage weeks, 50-60 mile weeks, i'd wake up at 530 and get that mileage in early. It was the best knowing my run was done and i had full day ahead. Waking up is really rough but it is worth it, and the worst part is getting out of bed, otherwise the runs are great. Good luck and congrats on the kid!It is tough marathon training with a kid but mornings are key and your significant other needs to be supportive, can't do it on your own.
I know I'm faster.
Mile 6:03, HM: 1:50:56, M: 4:01:54
Next Race: NJ Marathon 4/26, Goal: 3:39:00
I disagree... Though the nonsense was definitely available, I certainly saw more new faces on those days of "nonsense" I learned that just reporting mileage and paces week after week makes people sleepy and disinterested.
Cal and Andres: My point was that the posting of weeklies does not fade away to nothing, not that it is the only thing posted here. To me it's (as you noted Andres) a great source of learning and even inspiration to see what others are doing training-wise each week, what works and what doesn't, and read what others are struggling or succeeding with. I have no problem with other things being discussed/debated, though I prefer it be done in a respectful manner and can do without the trolling and rudeness. Let's leave that to the LRC messageboards; they have it down to a science.
JMac: Congrats on the baby on the way! I can't comment on running when the baby arrives as I was fat and sedentary when our son was born. But there are plenty here who have done it and can give you advice...
MikeyM: That does suck re the ankle and I hope it heals up quickly. I never had that injury, perhaps an advantage of running as slowly as I do.
Fishyone: Nice week, I like the 4 mile tempo and think I may do that this week as a workout.
Nimmals: I agree that Amos has the potential for the WR as well, but he needs to stop trying to get it all in the first lap. He's run some races either foolish or risky at best hitting the first lap in 48 low and carrying a bear on his back the last 150-200m.
DPS: Did you run a 15:42 5k today??? If so congrats, that is awesome! Was it a time trial to see where you are?
Keen: Strong week; why the 20 min T + 5 min T; was it originally planned that way or modified on the fly?
2:52:16 (2018)
Me - first real week of Boston training. I am not as out of shape as I thought, which is great. I thought my 2.5 full weeks off and honestly 5 weeks of barely any running was going to make it a long trek back. I guess we'll see when I race in 2 weeks where I'm really at. For those of you who have known me for a while, I kept saying I'm getting near the end of wanting to run this intensely, and I think this Boston will be it. My wife and I are now expecting our first kid in July, so that pretty much put the nail in the coffin as I will have to take on a pretty big burden with the child vs. my wife who works a more demanding job. I'm also not a morning person as you people know, so there's no way I want to run 70+ MPW and wake up at 5 am to do so.
Congratulations on a pregnancy (and a miracle that makes it possible as I learned through the years) and welcome to the club of "your life will never be the same" . It's not worse or better - it just will be totally different
As for running in the morning - ha-ha-ha - that brings some memories... Until 48 yo I was also absolutely, totally certain of the fact I am not a morning person, but things changed, the job location changed, a new born came later on and it turned out, running in the morning is far far more preferable option than running at night - especially because kids go to bed at around 8-9pm - so, you cannot run late at night anyway - because kids will wake you up early in the morning and you better go to sleep with kids and wake up before kids wake up, run and be back by the time the kids woke up
Just to make things interesting and really go out on top, I want to get a moose mug. Yeah, it's meant for older runners, but still, would be a good way to cap things off. So my official Boston goal is 2:33:20 (I'm taking credit for the 1/3 of a year that passed since my 33rd birthday!). Absolutely no clue at this point whether that goal is too aggressive, too conservative, or just right. Let's hope the weather doesn't suck like it has for the last, what is it now, 4 years? Ugh.
Ha-ha-ha - that is not how it works buddy... Just like with qualifying for Boston - you have to be exactly certain age by the day of the race to get certain qualification time - so, no, 2:33:20 will not work - you have to go by the rules and the rule for you will be 2:32:59 or faster - even 2:33:00 will not be enough to be eligible for MM
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
JT - The platform I use for most of my run tracking isn't quite perfect and doesn't show enough of the run titles as it should. That run was actually 20 min T, 5 min T, 10 min E, 15 min T, 5 min T. I agree with your assessment regarding keeping this from becoming another LRC.
I have a question for this group, but first a little bit of context. I never used to run hills. I started to run them in the fall because I got a Stryd power meter and was checking it out. Then came winter, and I couldn't do intervals anymore so I thought about the old saying "hills are speed work in disguise" and started hitting a nearby hill. It's about one minute long when I push hard, and could make it in 55 seconds if I pushed really hard. The hill is well salted most of the time so it's a workout available to me pretty much all through winter. I can still usually find options to do Tempos, but the speed work is a problem. Now my question is, for flat road race training, how would you say running 60 seconds hills rank compared to running 800s, for example? Just as good? Better? Not as good?
Funny you bring this up Monday nights are my hill sprints.
But I'll let someone else answer but 1st, 2questions.
Funny you bring this up Monday nights are my hill sprints. But I'll let someone else answer but 1st, 2questions. When you said you did hill intervals in the fall what was the distance or time? (sprints or run-ups) Effort? Recovery? What was the purpose? For the current 55-60 seconds hill run, what was your Stryd or Garmin reporting for the length? What is the recovery?
I have tried short sprints, but I'm not sure explosiveness is where I'll get the most bang for my buck... I tried 20 second sprints, 30 second semi-sprints, and 60 seconds (the full hill).
Garmin was the one reporting the time (length). I would simply press lap before going up and lap once on top, and it takes roughly one minute. I jog back down, and that takes about 90 seconds.
During the holidays I went to a longer hill and I was doing two minutes (per Garmin chrono). That hill is very big and I can do whatever on it, but there's car traffic and it's further away. Not as convenient.
For now I mostly gather Stryd data, but don't use it much.
As for purpose and effort.
Purpose is to do workouts in the winter with what Mother Nature and my environment gives me.
Effort is always based on feel. I give enough to be out of breath on top and need to recover, like hard intervals. But I find the fatigue creeps up exponentially on hills and more linearly in flat intervals.
Mother of Cats
First of all - JMAC - congrats! I will note that I've had several training partners who became fathers, and they were able to make it work after, including running PRs in the marathon. But I can also understand the appeal of shifting focuses, and going out with a bang.
As an aside, one does not always need to increase mileage to improve at the marathon. There are other ways to increase training load than mileage. And while mileage is valuable, I think it also has decreasing returns. Keep in mind that you're talking to someone who has done 95 mile weeks, and 55-65 mile weeks, and runs significantly faster at all distances with the latter.
DW - you basically always "hiding" pool miles - so this week would be like 80+ week, not 60+. In your estimate what pool mile worth in term of road mile?
I use the math of 10 minutes easy pool-running = one mile. I think, in the end, pool-running miles are great and useful, but they are never quite the same as real running. I think my week of 66 miles plus 18 "miles" is worth more than a plain 66 mile week (especially since that 66 miles was spread over 5 days, not 7). But it's also not the same as 84 land miles.
[personally, I also think that we sometimes rely too much on "miles" as our metric for workload. Miles is one aspect of total workload, but not the only one.]
. Now my question is, for flat road race training, how would you say running 60 seconds hills rank compared to running 800s, for example? Just as good? Better? Not as good?
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My sample of 1 - once or twice a year I swap to a hills focus for a few weeks, with the staple workout being 6-8 reps of ~2 minutes at 3 K effort up a moderate hill, 90 second jog, 30 second downhill stride, 60 second jog. It gets my heartrate very high, my legs turning over, and I feel strong and tough.
However, when I've raced off of just that training, I always underperform. It surprised me at first - I was doing all this hard running and getting my legs to turn over. But...while I was doing great things in terms of strengthening and developing power that set me up well for future training, those hill repeats weren't developing what I needed to develop to race well. Hill repeats are foundational, but don't sharpen you.
"The Nonsense" - honestly, it doesn't bother me at all. I started participating on the internet when things were a lot more unruly. I've just never seen anything on any running/endurance sport discussion board that is all that troubling, including LetsRun. The industrial club discussions back in the day regularly devolved into spectacular flame wars, and equestrian boards past and present have a very high level of drama. (It's not a horsey flame war unless someone starts threatening to sue another poster.) I've honestly never understood why people think Letsrun is that bad - I guess it's all in perspective. If I don't like reading something, I just scroll past.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Sprints should be very short 8 seconds and max out at 12 seconds. Brad Hudson has a really good explanation of purpose and intent as well as perceived effort for hill sprints. Its Phosphates so 8 seconds is good to start as you get stronger you could lengthen to 14 max. Also you can set up your Garmin to control the entire workout the recoveries on the short sprints should be a walk down. Let the watch do all the work that way you can focus on form and effort if you're thinking i have to hit lap button especially in the winter you can bet your form is off. I sent a message its not something you can summarize in two words. If its too much to read, disregard everything i have ever said .
Hill repeats are foundational, but don't sharpen you. "The Nonsense" - honestly, it doesn't bother me at all. I started participating on the internet when things were a lot more unruly. I've just never seen anything on any running/endurance sport discussion board that is all that troubling, including LetsRun. The industrial club discussions back in the day regularly devolved into spectacular flame wars, and equestrian boards past and present have a very high level of drama. (It's not a horsey flame war unless someone starts threatening to sue another poster.) I've honestly never understood why people think Letsrun is that bad - I guess it's all in perspective. If I don't like reading something, I just scroll past.
Hill repeats are foundational, but don't sharpen you.
I'm glad you said it I never include hill run-ups (repeats) in my training. But i will make you do hill sprints ad nauseam especially if i suspect you've never seen the inside of a gym. Trust me, I have some athletes who swear they do core and conditioning then when they get into a jam or i ask them to document their strength training they level with me they almost never always skip strength training. so I ply them with hill sprints. Mondays April though November.
Lastly the nonsense, It baffles me why people get upset. Ignore it especially if its not you, or aimed at you. If you insult a rock and it doesn't answer back what have you gained?? Ive never really posted on Let's Run but I will go over there for discussions threads on races or courses I have no knowledge of.