2020 Marathon Training Thread (Read 491 times)

CalBears


    A brief summary of the Black Canyon 100K.  (I have a relative who enjoys reading longer reports from me, so I always type those up and post them on a blog.  I’ll share that when it’s finished for anyone who cares to read it.)

     

    Finishing time:  15:16:40.  cal, I think one of the reasons BC has a 17-hour cutoff is because of the technical aspects of the trail.  I don’t think that completely makes up for the elevation of a course like Quicksilver, but it does require a lot of technical skill, running over miles and miles of rock:  some of it loose, some of it not.  Simply put, I don’t have that skill.  And the quality of the trail changes fairly often, so the time when I could get comfortable in a stride and just cruise along was extremely limited.  While it is largely downhill for the first half, quite a bit of it isn’t “easily runnable” downhill.  And I just don’t really have a way to train for that.  My quads were fine through the first half - I think running downhill on a treadmill helped a lot with that - but my ankles took a beating.

     

    I ran this race back in 2017, which was a very wet year, and the course was altered to an out and back, and also shifted to more jeep road, so I hadn’t seen more than half of the actual course the first time I ran it.  I knew pretty quickly that finishing in the 11th hour was not going to happen.  I was hoping for 13 for a while, but the rocks on the second half of the course just got more and more brutal.  At the end of the day, I think I finished about as quickly as was possible for me given the circumstances.

     

    So, with my WS lottery ticket in hand, I’m looking forward to recovering and getting ready for a fall marathon.  

     

    Oh... You are right - I didn't think about technical aspect of the course. You are right - that could slow down you tremendously, because you don't wanna just kill yourself. Quicksilver in that sense is extremely runnable, very runnable, the most of the course is almost like a pavement only without an asphalt. Congratulations on finishing it and staying alive! You might be even lucky enough to get the WS ticket in December. Smile

    paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

    Marky_Mark_17


      Andres - thanks, amazing how the group made the hills a lot more manageable!

       

      JTReeves - two and a half weeks of battling snowy roads in BC made me appreciate the value of a treadmill for you folk in colder places in winter.  Yet I'm still always impressed how many of you can rack up big mileage on the TM, honestly I would struggle.

       

      DPS - yep, big fan of foam rolling here too.  You've built a big platform and I'm excited to see how you go now that you are starting to get into MP work.

       

      DavePNW - welcome!! I'm also just learning the value of company on a long run.

       

      Nimmals - impressive week, that 18 miler then into a 28 miler on the weekend is awesome.  I'd kill for your mile pace but hey you gotta start somewhere.  There were a bunch of kids on the track, which was weird for a Saturday morning, but they were all really good at clearing the inside lane for me, or maybe they just wanted to get out of the way of the crazy-looking guy.

       

      OMR - 100k blows my mind regardless of the pace.  Well done.

       

      So, my slight dilemma this week is that Sunday has a 10km race (2nd in the 3 race North Shore Run Series).  I'm mostly just using this series to keep the race-rust at bay, and not really focusing too hard on it as I build towards an April HM and FM at the end of May.  However, this second race in the series is basically in my backyard, in one of the areas I run a lot (Hobsonville Point), so I feel a little bit obliged to defend my territory!!  I may drop the mileage back just a touch this week so I can put in a good performance on Sunday.

      5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

      HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

      Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

      Up next: In theory, Clyde to Alexandra Road Race (10km), 15 August... in practice, who knows?

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      Cyberic


        Quick drop by. Decided against running a marathon this spring. I can't manage to increase my training to the level I think it needs to be for a good marathon because of winter. I get frustrated when I can't do what needs to be done, and I like running happy. So I'll take my time and hopefully do it right for a good fall marathon.

         

        Ran 50 miles Monday to Friday, all easy, and didn't run Saturday and Sunday. First time since I started running that I take two days in a row for no reason other than I just didn't feel like running.

        Proud run commuter since 2017

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

          71 miles, 15 "miles" of pool-running, and 2000 yards of swimming
          M: 6 miles very easy (9:17), upper body weights/core, 2 miles very easy (8:53), drills and four strides, and 6 "miles" pool-running.
          T: 12 miles, including track workout of 1600, 4x800 in 6:08, 2:57, 2:56, 2:56, 2:52. Recovery of about 5 minutes after the 1600, and around 2:30 between each 800. Followed with leg strengthwork and 750 yards recovery swimming.
          W: 8 miles very easy (9:12), yoga, 4 miles very easy (8:57), plus drills and four strides.
          Th: Upperbody weights, core, and 9 "miles" pool-running.
          F: 12 miles, including a track tempo of 6400m in 25:18 (6:24/6:19/6:22/6:13). Followed with leg strengthwork and 750 yards recovery swimming.
          Sa: 10 miles very easy (8:57), followed by drills/strides, upper body weights and core.
          Su: 16 miles progressive, split as first 5 averaging 8:44, next 5 averaging 7:19, last 6 averaging 6:38. Followed with lower body injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.

           

          Doesn't look like a cutback/taper, but it was.   Due to how things played out, I ran 6 days this week instead of my normal 4-5, so I averaged 11 miles a day (was closer to 14 miles a day during my cycle).

           

          Tested the Next% on Sunday's long run - I've worn that shoe for everything from the mile to the half, but I've never used it in a full, or used it for marathon pace running.  Tried it today, and wasn't crazy about it - the run itself was OK, but I just felt awkward in the shoe at that pace.  I think the heel-toe drop is too low for me to be comfortable with it at marathon pace - when I run faster, I strike further forward, and so the shoe feels better then.

           

          ****

           

          OMR - congrats on finishing and earning a ticket. I was tracking you..., the tracking sucked, honestly. Not the easiest to follow.

           

          +3 on the importance of regular mobilization, and of focusing on the psoas when the hamstring flares.

           

          JTreeves - good to see another solid week from you. I've had the same issue with conference calls with other countries. My issue is always that the europeans want to be very nice and do a 7:00 am conference call, and don't believe me when I insist that 4 am is much better for me. If we do 4 am, I can wake a little bit earlier, do the call while eating breakfast, and then go on with my day. 7 am is prime running time.

           

          DPS - solid mileage.

           

          Dave - welcome - I think I've seen you around this board before! Smile

           

          Marky-Mark - gotta admit I don't quite get the need to run it just because it's so close. There are several races that start within 2 miles or less of my house; I rarely run them.

           

          Nimmals - I haven't heard a reference to Wrexx N Effect in a LONG time. Like DECADES.   And now that song is stuck in my head.

           

          [*dances off chanting "check baby check baby 1-2-3-4, check baby check baby 1-2-3"*]

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          dpschumacher


          Making a comeback

            Dark- was thinking about getting some (next%) but now I'm planning on waiting til early april and trying on a pair of each brand that has them out. Fortunately the Twin Cities have so many running stores you cam try on everything if you are willing to drive to 4 different stores.

             

            I may end up sticking with my new balance rebels in the end.

            2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

            2020 Goals:

            5k:16:30

            HM: 1:18:00

            Marathon: 2:45:00

            New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

            Nimmals


            Stotan Disciple

              DarkWave now Have an image of you dancing in college. Lol when I think of college parties "Engine engine #9" LOL I use to try to destroy frat houses when that song came on.   Oh man memories...

              DW when you say low drop you me higher from heel to toe? those shoes have a 8mm drop where as Takumi Sen has 6mm drop. The Flyknit has a 11mm drop. that's why I love them for track workouts.

               

              OMR yes congrats on the amazing fortitude to complete a 100k or even a 15 hour. I know my limits and I'm amazed by all who can do it except for   CBTRT

               

              DP The shoe is the future. I wore Hokas that were just as highly stacked for races I had PRs in the Hoka Bondi.  These are just lighter better dampening. Every shoe manufacturer will be going this way everyone had a minimalist low drop shoe when it was the thing. I don't understand how people can hem haw over a $250 shoe but can go to dinner for $300 then shit the whole thing out the next day. I like shoes dinner is optional. I go out to dinner only to keep the GF happy she drinks a piss load of expensive wines @ dinner. I'd rather a pair of shoes and a chop salad. Don't tell her I said that.

              Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

              dpschumacher


              Making a comeback

                I have worn new balance 90% of the time since HS with some adidas and a few nikes.  New balance is coming out with carbon marathon shoe as are most brands before April first  I'm just going to try each brand out then pic.  We are just fortunate to have everything from the hoka rebel and carbon x to the next% and everything else within the 8 running specific stores in the the cities.  But no shop with all of them.  So i'll likely just take a afternoon and try them all and see what works for me.

                2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                2020 Goals:

                5k:16:30

                HM: 1:18:00

                Marathon: 2:45:00

                New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                  Nimmals: That's a big weekend with the 2 long runs! Good training for the 50k. Did you see Cheptegei's WR for road 5k (12:51)? I agree with a thread over on LRC; if he and Rhonex focus on the track they could be the ones to take down Kenny's WRs.  I hope they are clean...

                   

                  OMR: Congrats on the race; I am very impressed. I can't imagine running that far; I think I would fall apart.

                   

                  DPS: Great looking week. I like those quality sessions. What will change now that you are done with base-building? Are you planning something different for your quality moving forward?

                   

                  DavePNW: Welcome! Cinnamon ran Vancouver last year; unfortunately she disappeared recently but if she comes back she can give you some pointers on the course. I know she really liked it.

                   

                  Cyberic: It's most important to enjoy your running; if that means waiting till fall for a race then that's the way to go.

                   

                  DW: Very impressive week! That's a lot of high quality running; I hope you'll take it easier now till the race. To use a very worn out expression, the hay is in the barn now. Just do enough quality to stay sharp. You're in great form now and a big PR is in the bag, weather cooperating.

                   

                  Shoes: I need to decide what show to wear for a 7.6 mile race Sunday. I think it will be either the Adios 4 or Floatride, though the VF is also an option. Leaning towards the Adios since I've done most my quality the last few weeks in those. But the Floatride is sooooooo light, it is tempting to go with it.

                  2:52:16 (2018)

                  DavePNW


                    Well Tokyo is cancelled. That sucks for a whole lot of people. Anyone registered is able to defer to 2021. They’re still running it for the elites.

                    Dave

                       

                       

                      I don't understand how people can hem haw over a $250 shoe but can go to dinner for $300 then shit the whole thing out the next day. I like shoes dinner is optional. I go out to dinner only to keep the GF happy she drinks a piss load of expensive wines @ dinner. I'd rather a pair of shoes and a chop salad. Don't tell her I said that.

                       

                      I know, right? Just the other day my broker was telling me he wasn’t sure about the diamond quilt leather seat upgrade for his P100D model X, and I was like bro, you order the YK35 Shizuku at Nobu ALL THE TIME!

                      Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                      We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
                      Fishyone


                        Best week I've  had in quite some time and the legs feel it now.  Taking a recovery week to absorb the volume of the last few.  Saturday was the Marthas Vinyard 20 miler which was supposed to be 4 slow 12MP then 4 slow......Which turned out to be 2 warm up then 12MP then the last 6 faster than they should be Smile What a really nice course and a well run small race.

                         

                          total pace  
                        Mon 11.3 7:48 Tempo 6@7:10
                        Tue 7.5 8:55 Miles
                        Tue 7.0 9:32 Recovery
                        Wed 15.0 8:55 Mid Long
                        Thu 8.0 9:28 Recovery
                        Fri 5.0 9:01 GA 11 
                        Sat 20.0 7:32 MP long run 12 @ MP
                        Sun 7.6 9:43 Recovery
                          81.4    

                        5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 40:13 (2014), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

                        Andres1045


                          Andres - yes, I've almost exact "injury" like this the year I ran 2:51 at CIM (in 2014, I think?) - as a result I did very few workouts (still I had some) but ran like 80-90 mpw, mostly slow. I didn't do any hip exercises before, I can google obviously, but you can direct me to some you think were useful for you?

                          You could be better off googling. I didn't read this in any book or website, but this is what seemed to work best for me after a bunch of playing around with things:

                           

                          1. Finding a counter and placing my leg up on the counter so that it's crossed in front of me.  So the leg is bent at the knee, and, if you're using your right leg, the right foot is on the left side of the body (that make sense?). You find different height counters depending on how deep of a stretch you want. Also, you can bend forward, or bend forward and a little to the side. This stretch does a lot to the muscles in the back of your leg, but depending on the height and different bends, it seems to really stretch out my hips well. May want to play around with it. I've got one of those desks at work that goes up and down, so it's great to find different levels depending on how aggressive I want to stretch. You can also just put your foot on the counter then push your knee below the counter level and bend to the side. That's a little more aggressive.

                           

                          2. Get a small hard ball, like a baseball, and find a doorjamb. Stick the ball against your hip and the doorjamb. Roll it around deep in there until you find the tight spot. If this helps, it can really help. For me, when I find the exact right spot, I feel instant relief down the back of my leg. I did this for about a year. Then 6 weeks ago I bought one of those cheep(ish) massage guns off of amazon. I do the same thing using the massage gun now, and it works wonders.

                           

                          JT - I ran an 8k in those Reebok fast pro somethings this weekend and they were amazing. Felt like there was nothing on my foot, yet my feet felt like they were on clouds. They don't have the "propel you forward"  feel like the Nike's do, but they're an awesome shoe. I highly recommend them, if we're talking about the same shoe.

                           

                          Ntown kevin - I don't understand half of what you were saying, yet I was still laughing for a while. Funny stuff.

                          Upcoming races: Madrid (half) April 2020

                          dpschumacher


                          Making a comeback

                             

                             

                            DPS: Great looking week. I like those quality sessions. What will change now that you are done with base-building? Are you planning something different for your quality moving forward?

                             

                             

                             

                            So this week, on tuesday i have 2 mile warm up, 6 miles alternating between 6 and 6:30 pace every half mile, 2 mile cool down.  Basically a series of 800's with no break and averaging marathon pace between the two.  So it will be a longer and faster effort.  I also expect my intervals to start creeping down in pace to build up some speed.  My Thursday tempo 7 miles at 6:15 with 2 WU/CD.  So basically there will be longer and faster workouts and long runs will start building up past the 16 mile Saturdays that I've been running. Still 3 quality days (interval, tempo, long run) with 4 easy days with high mileage.

                            2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                            2020 Goals:

                            5k:16:30

                            HM: 1:18:00

                            Marathon: 2:45:00

                            New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                               

                              DW when you say low drop you me higher from heel to toe? those shoes have a 8mm drop where as Takumi Sen has 6mm drop. The Flyknit has a 11mm drop. that's why I love them for track workouts.

                               

                              Yup - drop from heel to toe.  I've worn the Takumi Sen for marathon effort stuff, and had a similar experience with that shoe.  It's not a matter of calf flexibility - I've got a ton of mobility there.  If a shoe has too low a drop, it just doesn't feel comfortable at marathon effort.  Interestingly enough, I'm totally comfortable doing my easy days in the Nike Free, so I tolerate low drop well in general.  It just doesn't work for me at marathon effort.

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              DW: Very impressive week! That's a lot of high quality running; I hope you'll take it easier now till the race. To use a very worn out expression, the hay is in the barn now. Just do enough quality to stay sharp. You're in great form now and a big PR is in the bag, weather cooperating.

                               

                              I'm sticking to the same taper I always follow.  This past week was slightly different, in that I historically have either raced a half-marathon 3 weeks out or a 5K-10K two weeks out. But from here in, I'm just sticking to what has proven to work for me, which is maintaining intensity (though not hammering) while reducing volume.

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              JT - I ran an 8k in those Reebok fast pro somethings this weekend and they were amazing. Felt like there was nothing on my foot, yet my feet felt like they were on clouds. They don't have the "propel you forward"  feel like the Nike's do, but they're an awesome shoe. I highly recommend them, if we're talking about the same shoe.

                               

                               

                              I think I mentioned here - I have a pair of those also.  They are really a nifty shoe.  They don't work well for me, since they're so flexible.  But just a really cool shoe - so much bounce.

                               

                              Tokyo - sucks for those who were entered.  I have two teammates who were entered who are now pivoting.  I guess the silver lining is that it's better to know now than to have it cancelled two days before like NYC the year of Sandy.

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              Cyberic


                                 

                                6 miles alternating between 6 and 6:30 pace every half mile, 2 mile cool down.  Basically a series of 800's with no break and averaging marathon pace between the two.  

                                 

                                I really like those kinds of workouts. Either like the one you're describing, averaging ~MP, or alternating between 10K pace and MP to average HMP to Daniels' Threshold pace (60 minutes race effort).

                                 

                                I also like the workouts with float recoveries, as I find I can get "more workout" in the same amount of time.

                                Proud run commuter since 2017