Goal of sub 20 5k (Read 13664 times)

Mich, I am with everyone else on this. You know how few miles I used to put in right(<10mpw)? i="" struggled="" to="" break="" 21:00="" for="" three="" years="" while="" doing="" that.="" i="" started="" doing="" 10k="" training="" runs="" instead="" 2="" years="" ago="" and="" i="" dropped="" down="" to="" 19:17="" in="" about="" 3="" months.="" then="" last="" year="" i="" started="" doing="" 10-13="" mile="" runs="" on="" the="" weekends.="" i="" dropped="" another="" 50="" seconds="" off="" of="" my="" 5k="" time="" and="" i="" knocked="" a="" solid="" 40="" minutes="" off="" of="" my="" marathon="" time.="" if="" you="" can="" make="" it="" through="" a="" nice="" 8-10="" mile="" tempo="" run="" then="" the="" 5k="" will="" feel="" like="" a="" sprint="" to="" you!="" it="" is="" amazing="" how="" running="" medium="" to="" longer="" training="" runs="" will="" give="" you="" the="" ability="" to="" hammer="" the="" last="" mile="" or="" even="" the="" last="" quarter="" of="" a="" mile.="" most="" people="" don’t="" realize="" how="" much="" a="" good="" sprint="" over="" the="" last="" quarter="" mile="" can="" reduce="" your="" time.="" think="" about="" this:="" if="" you="" run="" the="" last="" quarter="" at="" a="" 6:00="" pace="" then="" it="" will="" take="" you="" 1:30.="" if="" you="" run="" it="" at="" a="" 5:00="" pace="" then="" it="" will="" take="" you="" 1:15.="" finally,="" if="" you="" can="" muster="" up="" a="" nice="" 4:00="" pace="" then="" it="" will="" take="" you="" 1:00.="" think="" about="" that!="" you="" can="" reduce="" your="" total="" time="" by="" 30="" seconds="" within="" sight="" of="" the="" finish="" line!=""></10mpw)?>

JDF...You also go out fast in your opening mile if I am remembering right. It seems to me as if you were beating 6 minutes on some of your downhill opening miles in sub 20 attempts. My dilemma is finding the right approach to my best 5k run. I always have attempted to run right at the 20:00 pace for the entire race but would fall behid 5-10 seconds every mile and not be able to make it up. I have been increasing miles this year thats why its so frustrating to see slow results. I have been doing 2 faster runs a week for the past 3 months and while my long run isn't 12 miles it typcailly gets up to 9 miles which should be enough for a 4th year runner to break 20. After all I was running below 21 minutes in 2005. The only worry is do I only have 5 good hard runs in me a year? If I use one up attempting to break 20 in a practice run will that hurt my chances in a race? I don't think so because 6:30 pace is not really that fast. I can also pick the weather of my attempt...I can wait till its cooler out at night and when I feel good to attempt it. Anyhow I do like your end of race sprint tactic as that is my style though I cannot get anywhere near as fast as you. During the track meeting last night I ran my 200 splits faster than my relay partner who is an 18:30 5k runner. I also ran my last 400 meter interval faster than he did....but he smoked me on the 800 meter intervals by about 15 seconds apiece. Yes its all about endurance that tells you right there....but I have been running alot so hopefully it all starts to click soon!

I think he means per k, not per mile.

No I meant per mile.

I also ran my last 400 meter interval faster than he did....but he smoked me on the 800 meter intervals by about 15 seconds apiece. Yes its all about endurance that tells you right there....but I have been running alot so hopefully it all starts to click soon!

Yes that is what I mean. If you build up your mileage base then you will be able to sustain that 400 speed all the way through the last quarter mile. I bet you don't sprint nearly as hard at the end of a race as you do in those intervals? With the right mileage and motivation I bet you would be able to sustain that speed even at the end of a 5k. Do you have a GPS watch? If not get one. I know Jim and the others don't trust them completely but I absolutely live and DIE by mine! I have died several times but never because of the Garmin. Also I wouldn't worry too much about going out a little too fast. I fully agree that a steady pace is ideal. However, it is only ideal if you hold your maximum sustainable steady pace. The problem is that you usually don't know what that is. You will tend to hold back on downhills so "You don't go too fast". Then you have to bust it at the end to regain any lost ground. If you just let yourself go a little on the steeper downhills then I think you will be right where you want to be instead of a few seconds behind. Now, I am not advocating running hard downhill at the beginning or middle of the race like I have a tendency to do. Instead I am saying you should not "Brake" on downhills and you should sprint like H$LL as soon as you see the finish line. That will get you passed the 20:00 mark and then we can work on getting your's and my pace to a more even level. The 20:00 mark is just a mind barrier. Once you are past it you will be amazed at what you can accomplish.

I found this post on page 1 of runnersworld suib 20 post thread....How many times have I/we heard this but I/we keep forgetting it? THIS is from a poster called AGAROSE. http://forums.runnersworld.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/713106038/m/1801018214/p/1 agarose Posting Machine Posted January 21, 2008 11:52 PM Hide Post A lot of you know my story already, so excuse the redundancy for those already familiar with it. I've got a lot of respect for the 20:00 5k mark, since I banged up against it and couldn't break through for 15 years of my life, with sprints, tempos, etc and up to 40mpw of serious training. (And I'm only 32 now.) I'm definitely NOT one of those gifted 17:00 5ks with 30mpw kids. 20:00 for me required near-maximal speedwork training and hard efforts for several months, else I'd be running 21-22s. I knew that "undermileage" was probably my weakness, but I never anticipated that it would make a big change in my 5k performance. I eventually gave up on the 5k about 2 years ago since I thought I was near-maxxed out. After a year of marathon training and ramping mileage from 35-40 to 70-80 with no dramatic changes in speedwork intensity (actually, less intensity on speedwork), I shocked myself in a fun run 5k and completely bypassed the 19x bracket and landed at 18:50. You can imagine the shock I felt when I saw the clock - it was more shocking than finishing a marathon, since I'd never even come close to a 19:50, let alone 18:50 in 15 years. I've since become a huge proponent of higher mileage base training, even for 5k-10k racing. Truth is, VO2/lactate gains account for the rapid improvement in the first 3-6 months of tarining, but plateau fast. They're addictive to those in that improvement curve, but it's usually just a "quick fix" that will suddenly cease to yield significant gains after 3-6 months of solid work. I see TONS of new or returning runners on these forums who are super-excited about their "amazing 5k gains" upon returning to running, and I'm happy for them, but I also know that very few of them will have the knowledge or discipline to understand and undertake the "real" training that will be necessary to move past those quick-fix VO2/lactate gains. I hear very little from those same folks after they realize that their improvements have suddenly dropped off like a rock. Many of these folks don't understand that running more slow, easy miles is what they need - not more VO2 sprints and more hyperspeed tempo runs! However, as Jim2, Tim Noakes, and many others note, the aerobic benefits and running economy of slow, easy miles, are much more resistant to plateau effects, and were likely responsible for my breakthrough performance at distances where I thought I was maxxed. I feel that if runners focused more on this reality from the start, they'd naturally pick up the early VO2/lactate gains AND be mentally/physically prepared for more real long-term gains. My advice to those trying to break 20:00, is to maintain aggressive speedwork or tempo runs one day per week, but to also aim to gradually increase total mileage by at least 20% of current mileage to capture those necessary aerobic gains. After a short while, those aerobic gains will be the driving force of your continued improvement, even at 5k-10k distances.

Most people don’t realize how much a good sprint over the last quarter mile can reduce your time. Think about this: if you run the last quarter at a 6:00 pace then it will take you 1:30. If you run it at a 5:00 pace then it will take you 1:15. Finally, if you can muster up a nice 4:00 pace then it will take you 1:00. Think about that! You can reduce your total time by 30 seconds within sight of the finish line!

If the race has a 3-mile mark, you'd be amazed how much time you might be able to drop in that last 0.1 mi. Similar to above, at 6:00/mi, the last 0.11mi takes 38 seconds. At 5:00/mi, it takes 32 seconds. And at an almost all-out sprint (4:00/mi or 60sec/quarter), it takes 25.6 seconds. That's a window of almost 13 seconds. I don't think most people could do a final 400m in 60 sec, but it's not unreasonable to imagine that there's a good 8-10 seconds that could be shaved off if you absolutely laid the hammer down at the 3-mile mark.

How bout on a steep hill after 8.5 miles of very hard Hot, Hilly, Fast, trail running? Without the stroller of course. http://tinyurl.com/5uk6wn That was just shy of a quarter mile but it was significantly faster than 4:00 speed. I was dead after that of course but 1,700 feet of elevation gain in an 80 degree fog has a tendency to sap your energy.

If I read that graph correctly, isn't it showing 8 mph (7 1/2 min/mile) for the last quarter? Isn't the purple line your speed? Wait...you mean the spike at 9 miles, on the very steep decline?

If I read that graph correctly, isn't it showing 8 mph (7 1/2 min/mile) for the last quarter? Isn't the purple line your speed? Wait...you mean the spike at 9 miles, on the very steep decline?

Yea I meant the spike just before mile 9. It was an 11.5 mile run so the scale is a little weird. That was just short of a quarter but it was fast(Trust me). Also that hill was not as steep as it looks. The vertical scale is only 300 feet. The horizontal scale is over 63,000 feet. I always put the pace smoothing on maximum on my GPS watch so you would be surprised at how it actually underestimates the speed on that graph.