What caliber gun do you carry? (Read 1836 times)

It was the "have to" statement that Jehu challenged, starting all this.  Nobody was rallying against gun owners.

Exactly.  I'm not speaking against your choice to carry a firearm (merely noting that I'd feel more comfortable if those around me weren't armed, which I don't see as an irrational position... different strokes for different folks, I guess).  And maybe I missed it, but I don't think you actually gave me a reason for carrying a concealed handgun aside from a sense of personal security.  Opportunistic short-range hunting?

Exactly.  I'm not speaking against your choice to carry a firearm (merely noting that I'd feel more comfortable if those around me weren't armed, which I don't see as an irrational position... different strokes for different folks, I guess).  And maybe I missed it, but I don't think you actually gave me a reason for carrying a concealed handgun aside from a sense of personal security.  Opportunistic short-range hunting?

I guess I missed that nuance.

The reason I did give was security, but it was in a much different sense than you characterized it -- the insurance analogy vs fear for safety.  That is not a subtle difference.

Short range hunting?  Well, a couple years ago my neighbor's dogs tried to attack my toddler in my own yard.  That particular encounter ended without a scratch on her due to my own dog's protectiveness but, as a result, since those dogs are still allowed to run loose often, I do carry on my own property often (this is not the suburbs).

"Because I can", ie "use your rights or lose them" or a variation thereof is another reason you may get often.

Fair enough.  I suppose if I had large dogs regularly threatening my toddler, I'd have a different take on things.  Or if I lived in Baltimore. 

 

"Because I can" doesn't strike me as a particularly strong reason, but then I don't have much reason for many of the things I do, so who am I to judge.

Baltimore.  Heh.  That is an example of, if there is somewhere I feel so unsafe that I would need to carry a gun to not be fearful for my safety, I just don't go there.  My running routes in Baltimore are very limited.  Of course I could also point out that carrying a gun is not a guarantee of safety so should not be used in that way anyways.

The premise of "because I can" is that one need not have a reason to do it, they are simply exercising their right.  Needing a reason also opens the door for abuse.  Carry permits are controlled at either the state or county level and, in areas where they require a reason to grant a permit, this issue of reason to carry is regularly used abusively by gun-unfriendly areas to refuse people their right.  For example in MI county-level boards used to control the permits and some counties would simply deny everyone a valid reason, even a recently retired sheriff who weeks before headed the board, despite that this was not the intent of the state law asking for a reason.  This was one of the main reasons they have since changed this system.

The same problem applies to required training.  While in principle I would say this is a good idea (although some could legitimately question its effectiveness), in practice it is regularly abused when part of the permitting system.  In MI, the requirement led to high costs as people were held captive to pay for it.  While all the details escape me, when the Chicago ban was struck down by the Supreme Court they replaced it with regulations that still made legal ownership practically impossible, including requiring training but banning all such training from the metro area. 

It's a good thing no one "has to" carry a gun.  People who are not comfortable and proficient with them should not carry, as they would just be a liability to themselves and others.  This is why it must be a choice.

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This is what worries me about making it easy to carry a gun  drive a car.  Lots of people walking driving the streets are not as sensible as the people on this forum.  I'd probably feel pretty secure knowing Spaniel is carrying driving in my proximity, but there are lots of people who are not sensible, or not proficient, or have anger issues, or drink to excess, and are not particularly competent to make the decision of whether they themselves should carry  drive.  You're not going to assert that background checks are sufficient to weed out most of these people, are you?

Not a great analogy, and driving isn't a right, but I'm actually more scared of people with cars than people with guns.

This is what worries me about making it easy to carry a gun.  Lots of people walking the streets are not as sensible as the people on this forum.  I'd probably feel pretty secure knowing Spaniel is carrying in my proximity, but there are lots of people who are not sensible, or not proficient, or have anger issues, or drink to excess, and are not particularly competent to make the decision of whether they themselves should carry.  You're not going to assert that background checks are sufficient to weed out most of these people, are you?

I wish background checks were perfect but no, they are not.  However, you make the presumption that one will not be carrying if they do not have a permit.  Having a permit requires one's fingerprints to go "in the system", as well as opening one up to additional felony charges and penalties if they abuse the permit.  If someone is planning on doing anything illegal, having a permit is an increased liability to them and makes them more likely to be caught.

Are there a few cases you could find on the internet of permit carriers getting into a hot-headed altercation and pulling a weapon?  Yes.  And they are sitting in prison as they should be, and are very small in number.  However, there are far, far more people sharing cells with them who did not bother with a permit.

Yes, there are people I know who own guns that I don't think are responsible enough to own them.  But if they screw up they will held responsible for their actions and I do not feel that the vast majority of us who are responsible should have to give up our rights for a minority of irresponsible.  America was born as a free society, and there is sometimes a price for that freedom.  I don't trust half the other drivers on the road either, yet the driver's tests do nothing to weed them out and they kill far more people than guns.  In the last 5 days drunk drivers have killed at least 3 innocent people in this city yet we continue to sell them alcohol with just the flash of an ID even after prior infractions.  Should we go back to Prohibition, or should be make those who are irresponsible or criminal more accountable for their actions?

I keep a gun in my car, in my office and in my nightstand.  They give me options.  All this chat about banks and being confronted.  Your best bet is to flee and avoid conflict  ...  like an animal would.  But when that is not an option  ...  then fight is.  At that point, I want to have the option of firing my weapon.

I'm not about to get into a gun discussion.

But I will say something about this:

>> America was born as a free society, and there is sometimes a price for that freedom.

America was born as a slave owning society by European white men who did not believe that women should have the right to vote.  By stealing land from people termed "savages" w/o understanding them.

I bring that up because all the flag and constitution-waving one can do does not set aside historical context.  So what we do is look back and try to remember the "best of times" and the underlying goodness in what was proposed in the Declaration of Independence and what was laid out in the Constitution.  The bitch of that being that people don't quite all buy into that in the exact same way in the historical context of 2011.