Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon 2021 Edition
Mark - 5 weeks to go. I'm actually a bit sore today, after saying I wasn't yesterday. The hills seem to beat up my legs a bit, I assume it's the downhills. I haven't hit the all encompassing marathon training mental and physical fatigue that I've heard others talk about but I suspect after the next 2 weeks I'll be happy to start the taper. This week will be my biggest of the cycle.
Mark - 5 weeks to go. I'm actually a bit sore today, after saying I wasn't yesterday. The hills seem to beat up my legs a bit, I assume it's the downhills.
I haven't hit the all encompassing marathon training mental and physical fatigue that I've heard others talk about but I suspect after the next 2 weeks I'll be happy to start the taper. This week will be my biggest of the cycle.
I certainly found my legs were a bit more tired this week for the extra hills. I'd been tilting my runs towards flat stuff for the last race so there has definitely been a bit of adjustment. Uphill and downhill running use different muscles so probably explains why your legs are feeling a bit beat-up, the downhills tend to hammer your quads in particular.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Mother of Cats
So...I don't think that all encompassing fatigue is necessarily part of marathon training. (it may be for elites, who have the luxury of doing nothing but running, and so can dedicate the time and resources to recovering from that fatigue that the rest of us can't.)
It's my belief that for us runners-with-day-jobs, we should NOT be training to that point of fatigue, even in a marathon cycle. What we think of as "correct" training is actually over training; and what we think of as "not enough" is actually right.
Cicadas - I should clarify - the US also has "normal" cicadas that come out every summer also in small numbers. But the periodic cicadas are different in that they only come out every 13 or 17 years, depending on the cycle (it's apparently significant that those are prime numbers, which minimizes the chances that two broods will come out at the same time). They're also different in the sheer numbers and the noise (resulting from the sheer numbers). Basically imagine a bug (any bug) that you only see once every 17 years, but when they come out, they come out in massive numbers and are EVERYWHERE. That's the difference.
Downhill running (harking back to the past discussion) - my understanding is that downhill running is much harder on hamstrings than uphill running. Basically it's because your hamstrings have a much larger range of motion when you are running downhill. When I've had hamstring trouble, running uphill has always been the safest choice for workouts, since the muscle is working, but in a shorter range of motion.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Apparently there are many species of cicadas in NZ. Some spend 3-5 years underground.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/cicadas/page-1
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Apparently there are many species of cicadas in NZ. Some spend 3-5 years underground. https://teara.govt.nz/en/cicadas/page-1
OK fine YOU HAVE COOL CICADAS TOO.
:P
Keen I may take a trip the the Chiropractor I typically try to avoid them, I have trouble relaxing when they mess with my neck not sure why but I tense up which is not what you should be doing.
JamesD Congrats on your son's graduation I'm sure he will enjoy Clemson this fall. sorry to hear about the groin acting up again
Piwi Nice week post race
Mark nice week and lots of elevation
Steve nice week and good work on that long run
Watson Nice week as well and nice elevation on your long run
I might need to add some more elevation to my routine.
DW excellent week looking forward to seeing your upcoming race results!
For me had a pretty good week, I'm not sure what it was, but I started feeling good all the way around and ended the week with the highest mileage I've had since mid Aug of last year.
Hopefully I'll be able to stay at this level for a while with no issues.
PR's
1m 5:38 (2018)
5k 19:59 (2019)
HM 1:33:56 (2018)
FM 3:23:07 (2018)
RIP Milkman
My all-encompassing marathon fatigue was always measured by my walk up a flight of stairs when I exited the subway. When I am deep in training, I find that my legs are just dead: they start to burn after just one flight of stairs. Or when you get up from a chair to go to the bathroom, it's like your legs need to warm up for a minute or two because they're so dead. Normal training for every other distance is a different kind of tired.
I never feel like I can't physically be at work, or I'm so drained I need to sleep all the time. But dead legs was always present in the worst of training. Every easy run felt like a recovery run with your legs hurting the whole way (in a very mild way), whereas when you're doing other training (like I am now), easy runs are actually really enjoyable.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Sup yall? I've been away awhile and see I've missed discussions of ancient military planes and cicadas !
Flavio - You need to get another pair of Torins! I think they're the best long run shoe I've ever had (of course mine only have 35 miles on them)
Mark - I don't run in either of those shoes but well maintained gravel isn't usually a big deal. Just make a decision and trust it.
Piwi Good job on the squats, how do you feel today??? DOMs from Squats IMO are just about the worst thing ever.
James I agree with DW that you need incredible swimming technique before your aerobic engine matters. Take some lessons if possible, they're 100% worthwhile.
DarkWave another great week! Is 7:10 looking to be your marathon pace then? Good luck with the 10 miler.
Steve - beyond just being tired because hills are harder than flats, I find downhill running to be the worst. The quads just don't love a lot of it (but it's fun so 100% worth it). I'm glad you're holding up well under the training, that means your coach is doing a great job in not giving you too much.
My first week w/ a coach has been great. I really enjoyed Friday's session in particular, mostly because I think the paces were just too easy for 3 minute intervals (they were supposed to be roughly T pace, 10k pace, 5k pace for 2 reps each). I overran it due to watch issues but didn't feel beat up. The heat and humidity also struck hard this weekend and Sunday's long run w quality was the first workout I couldn't hit the paces on but while I was just short of threshold effort, it felt like I'd be going over an edge if I pushed any more and coach said don't worry about it because 88% humidity is just gross (and thankfully there was a brief thunderstorm 45 minutes before my run or it would have been worse).
It's worth noting that I missed Friday's lifting/squat session because I had to run home and pack for our camping trip but I'm ok with that. . I also didn't cycle for the same reason and I'm ok with that too but I have a Sprint Triathlon next Saturday so I may end up paying for that. . I backed off the eccentric heel drops and my foot feels fine, but gave a few twinges so I need to get back on that.
Running: 43 mi / 6h 23min
Cycling: 0 (oops)
Swim: 1.2mi / 53 min
Lifting: 20m
Alfredson Protocol (oops): 1h 30m
At 8h 46min this is basically a recovery week but with quality runs.
Hiking: 3h
1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)
Whoops looks like I accidentally entered the cicada thread 😬
DW great job on that longrun.
Cfarr excellent on the 30 mile week. I don't like having my back and neck cracked and manipulated either. Of course the more you tense up the harder you make it for them.
Zebano does your coach set the pace or do you ?
I'm still a coach virgin
Mark/Zebano the weights seemed easy and i did 3 sets of 15 squats, weight ( 15kgs ) . Let me know if too much or not. I did start getting sore around the butt yesterday afternoon and this morning so must have achieved something.
I watched Mo on YouTube doing his gym work and he only did 2 sets of 6 squats
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Cobra Commander Keen
James - Good abbreviated week, and congrats to your son!
Piwi - Nice week post-race, and that didn't take you long to get over at all.
Steve - Well done. You're certainly building some nice mileage and consistency.
Piwi - Good week. I also think that running for 3 hours is kinda scary, which is why I'm working on avoiding that!
DWave - Congrats on making it through the bulk of this cycle! I'm certainly looking forward to what you do in those upcoming races.
Zebano - Welcome back!
Ever-so-slightly less mileage than I planned on for this week thanks to getting garbage-level sleep Thursday night and not nearly enough to boot. I had precious little energy for my run Friday and so abbreviated it, but was feeling better at the end than at the beginning. I almost kept going, but figured that just a handful of "missing" miles wouldn't amount to anything and may actually be beneficial.
This is my first week working with a coach. Nothing crazy for workout this week, just a little bit of a progression (a type of run I've never done).
I'm currently searching for some new running shorts. Most of mine are showing some age at this point. My favorites have been Mizuno Aeros but I can't really find those anywhere and they don't really have gel pockets. I've got a couple runs in some Tracksmith Twilight shorts, and while the fabric is awesome the liner doesn't *quite* fit as well as I'd like. Maybe I'm weirdly shaped... Perhaps I'll try refreshing some Patagonia strider pros if I can't find something else I like better.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Piwi My coach sets the goal paces for non-easy runs. His only guidance on easy runs is to stay slower than 8:14/mi (my top of the head conversion says about 5:06 / KM) and keep effort really low if running on trails. For workouts he actually gets fairly specific but he has stressed he wants me to focus on running relaxed and smooth rather than forcing the pace. The first two workouts were quite easy, the first due to low volume, the second due to slower paces on 3 minute intervals but the long run w/ quality got me.
Re: Strength... squatting 15kgs/30lbs isn't very much. It's less than the weight of a bar when using barbells, that said I always misjudge how much weight to do when I start lifting again and get stupidly sore so you probably have the right approach. In general low rep counts with high weights are regarded as good for building strength and CNS adaptions whereas higher volume is better for hypertrophy (aka bigger muscles) and endurance (something we already get plenty of). 2x6 IMO is a little low on volume but totally reasonable. I usually default to 3x5 but I'll readily admit I'm no expert. I personally won't do any sets of over 8 reps.
With squats and deadlifts I don't think you can spend enough time ensuring you have great form, you don't want to mess up your back and there are some really good youtube tutorials.
Has anyone eaten a cicada yet? They're supposed to be rather tasty.... then again snail is tasty if cooked in sufficient amounts of butter and garlic.
Piwi - Zebano makes some great points on squats and deadlifts... it's well worth spending the time to get your technique right. For runners, generally its better to focus to lower volume with higher weight. I tend to normally do 3 x 6 with a warm-up set to start.
Corey- good to hear that you are enjoying it out there! That's the main thing after all.
Zebano - hope the coach works out well for you. Mine has been great (over 5 years now!). Ugh on the humidity.
Keen - can't believe you've not done a progression run before! Your coach is adding value already. I don't do them often but they've definitely got their place. Anyway bummer on the sleep but decent week regardless.
This is my first week working with a coach. Nothing crazy for workout this week, just a little bit of a progression (a type of run I've never done). I'm currently searching for some new running shorts.
I'm currently searching for some new running shorts.
No progressions? Ever? Wow. You really are a JD Fanatic.
Good luck w/ the search, I've had some decent luck on REI Garage and Sierra trading post in the past but I see nothing there now.
I have never eaten a cicada.
Our old cat does, swallows them whole, so there's a buzzing noise in her stomach for around a minute before it dies.
I have never eaten a cicada. Our old cat does, swallows them whole, so there's a buzzing noise in her stomach for around a minute before it dies.
Hahahaha. I'm guessing yours are smaller or your cat is bigger - no way any of our cats could eat one whole. I've heard of dogs eating tons of them and getting nauseous.
We also have multiple cicada dining options for the next few weeks. Including: Chocolate covered cicadas. Or cicada and monkfish sausage or cicada tacos. Ironically, the cicadas are also harming some restaurants that were relying on outdoor dining for the next few weeks.
I've had grasshopper tacos, but never cicada tacos. I may have to have some the next few weeks.
Zebano - I'm hoping to be around 7:00 flat pace for the marathon. Sunday's long run finished in fairly warm conditions (82 F/28 C with a dewpoint of 67/19), so I backed off on the pace some.
Keen lack of sleep is the worst 😴. I went through a bad patch in summer here where I would feel really tired around 8pm but then couldn't sleep till 12pm and I would wake at 5am. I seem to have settled back into 8 hours now.
Yeah progression turns are awesome, so natural to speed up as you warm up.
Mark/Zebano thanks for the weights advice. Mark what weight are you lifting and what did you start with ?
I think I'm one of the minority on here without a coach. Honestly if I was a bit more financial I would do it.