Forums >Racing>2023 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread
Part of TLC
I prefer the second option. People who choose the first seem to assume that if they go out too hard and slow down, the slowing down will be the same, regardless of conditions. In my experience, not true. Bad weather tends to amplify a blow up.
I disagree, Not because of my extensive marathoning experience, but because of the rules of logic. If conditions at the start and during the first miles are within your comfort zone, going out at goal pace is not going out too hard (as long as your goal time is reasonable). Your problem then will be to decide when to slow down by how much, of course. Choosing the second option therefore might very well be the way to go anyway 🙂. Stay healthy!
Don't hurry - next AG will start 2026
JamesD
Never run a marathon, but your amount of experience with the distance seems relevant. I don't remember you having done one recently, so at the least this is your first one at this level of fitness. To me, that makes it more likely that you might have trouble judging when and how much to slow down, which argues for starting conservatively.
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Waltons ThreadLord
Nope, haven't done one in 5 years, and I knew a lot less about running back then, so this is close to new for me. I have to be especially wary of my running partner, who's doing the race with me and who has a tendency to go out fast.
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12; Firecracker 4-miler, 7/4
I've done both. I guess there is an argument for the start fast since those HMs wound up a minute or so faster than the ones I took slower from the start. That said, I felt 100% better on the ones I intentionally slowed from the start. Basically, I know I don't do well in heat and if I have to drive home post race, I know I need to back off.
ETA, thinking about this a little more. Not sure I am comparing the best races. I did a HM in 2017 in less than ideal conditions--late start, warm and it was faster than the absolute awful one a year later that I started at goal pace, lasted about 6 miles at gola pace and then overheated. If you do this in a HM, it 60-90 minutes of misery. If you blow up midway through a full, you have a long, long time to be miserable and reconsider your life choiecs.The 2022 and 2023 HMs Ithat I tookk easy from the start, I know my fitness was not at the same level as the 2 examples and probably were going to be slower no matter what I did.
I would very much recommend starting a full slower than goal MP. For a start, there's a good chance your goal is overly optimistic, so the intended negative split may fully/partially negate that.
Any, week done, volume a tad higher. Right glute is pretty good, although did feel it after Friday.
Two strength sessions, one mobility session, some stretching and:
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
I’m not sure I can add much on the MP discussion after two positive splits lol.
Me- quick drop and run on the weekly. Another solid week of training in the bag, though. I'm travelling for work this week to Malaysia so not sure how much running I'll get in, although I'm due a down week anyways. KLCC Park is right behind my hotel so it'll either be laps there or hotel treadmill if the humidity is too rough (which it looks like it might be). I'll be lucky to get anything below about 24-25C (75-77F) with dewpoint unlikely to be below around 22C / 71F. Maybe I'll run outside just for the weather complaining.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Mark, the forecast I see for KL makes 24-25 C look like the absolute best-case scenario if you run at 5AM (if you have light in the park). Thunderstorms every day does not look encouraging. If you're acclimated to the heat & humidity, that TDP isn't bad, but if you're not and you need to be not wiped out for work, the treadmill would be safer. Hope the trip is fun/interesting.
I had a new issue this week - extreme back stiffness & soreness, which is a first for me. I noticed it a bit at the start of Sunday’s long run, and it took me about six miles to get to my expected pace. Monday and Tuesday I started out hobbling and hunched over but loosened up after a while, and the back felt better after the runs. It’s gradually improved during the week, though I can still feel it. Thursday’s tempo run went pretty well. I went 4.6 miles @ 7:10 pace, compared to 4.1 @ 7:15 eight days earlier. Had hoped to go a little faster, because Thursday’s run was in the afternoon (when I run faster) and I had some tea beforehand (so caffeine).
DW has been excited about running 3x/week with friends and looking towards a 5K in two weeks, but she injured her Achilles this morning. Hope she can recover in time for the race. She doesn’t really care about competing, but she has been enjoying tracking her runs and seeing gradual improvement.
Sun - 13.2 miles in park PM @ 8:43
Mon - 5 miles very slow treadmill PM (60:20) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 mins
Tues - 8.3 miles in park PM @ 8:55
Weds - ~46 minutes swimming
Thurs - 8.3 miles in park PM including 4.6 @ 7:10
Fri - 5 miles very slow treadmill (60:20) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 mins
Sat - 8.3 miles in park PM @ 8:46
Total - 48.1 miles
YTD Average - 36.9 mpw
Thanks for the feedback on weather strategies. The latest indication is it may not be an issue as the forecast is now saying the temp will be in a rather narrow range of 56º - 61º (13-16C), which is too warm for my taste, but it could be worse and it's still a week away, so no point getting worked up about it now.
I got my final workouts done and shifted to taper mode this past week. 51.2 miles / 82.4km / 8:52:44 for the week. I've picked out my shorts and shoes for the race, but shirt choice is waiting for a better look at the weather. At least there won't be a problem staying warm in the runner's village before the race.
Mother of Cats
Watson - nice week. You make a very good point (that I wasn't explicit about) - often (arguably most of the time) - the pace that people think is their goal pace is in fact overly optimistic, and a hot race just compounds the blow-up.
Marky_Mark - safe travels
James - best wishes for both you and DW's injury/ache woes.
Fredford - what shirts are you choosing between? Longsleeve versus short sleeve? Or is it more nuanced than that?
Me:
63 miles running, 1500 yards swimming, and 90 minutes pool-running.M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yogaT: 10 miles, including 8 Iwo Jima hills. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.W: streaming yoga and 10 miles very easy (9:31) including some grass running and some drillsTh: upper body weights/core and 8.5 miles trail running (10:14)F: 10 miles, including a track workout of 2x3200m, 2x400m in 14:22 (7:16/7:06), 14:03 (7:07/6:56), 1:37, 1:38. Recoveries of 5:04 and 5:13 after the 3200s and 2:32 between the 400s. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.Sa: 10 miles very easy (9:43) followed by streaming yoga.Su: 14 miles progressive, split as the first 6 miles averaging 9:13 pace, the next 4 miles averaging 8:23 pace, and the next 4 miles averaging 7:40 pace (plus half-mile jog to car). Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming. Deep tissue massage in evening.
Easing back into marathon training, with Houston being the focus. Everything actually feels pretty good - I'm not in peak fitness by any means, but I don't feel horribly far from marathon fitness. Which tells me that my training for Houston needs to be measured rather than zealous, so that I don't fry myself or peak too soon.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Basically, short sleeve or tank top, depending on the temp, leaning towards tank top. If short sleeve, then I have many to pick from and have to decide which I want to be photographed in. If tank top, then it's a much smaller choice and will depend on just how warm it will be.
Easing back into marathon training, with Houston being the focus. Everything actually feels pretty good - I'm not in peak fitness by any means, but I don't feel horribly far from marathon fitness.
That's good to hear.
Danger Zone for me. I am never really good at running at other people's pace. I would therefore let your running partner go and say you will see him/her in the second half
I personally think, the slower you start the race, the less pain you will experience in the last 6-8 miles. And that is what I believe either makes for a great memorable experience or a really terrible one.
In either case - I envy all NYC runners - I am not in shape to run it, but I long to run it one day. Maybe we can all meet up there to run it. I will try to enter the lottery if there is one. Time is simply too challenging for me for the foreseable future.
Since I don't have a goal race that I am preparing for, I am just doing a lot of random stuff (intervals, repeats, tennis, biking). Nothing major to post, just trying to run more but I am not very motivated. My aim would be to enter a 10k or 5k at some point and set a new PB, in the hopes that I can do that with 3-4 runs per week. Just slacking.
I realized that I am physically unable to run sub 4 minutes per kilometer. I am currently probably in a 4:15 shape. It is beyond me how people can run a half or full at that pace or faster. Crazy stuff.
I have also realized, that each training cycle reduces my threshold pace by around 5-10 seconds (per km). If I started off this year at 5:25 - I am now around 5:05/5:00. My easy pace hasn't moved at all. I am 43 now, maybe I can keep this up for another 1-2 years. I enjoyed the Berlin Marathon a lot, so my new goal is to run a great memorable Marathon per year but more as a tourist than for competitive reasons. We shall see.
I wish all the runners a great tapering and so sorry for the Kiwis regarding the Rugby,......
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
Kinda late, my week:
Monday 1 mimle easy/warm up + upper body strength
Tuesday am 5.5 with strides
Wednesday am 6 with 3 T + 3x200 pm 1 w/u + lower body strength
Thursday UB strength
Friday am 6.6 easy
Saturday 4.8 with strides
Sunday 6 with 2 x (2x200+400) cut this short followed by LB strength
watson, nice week.
Mark, that doesn't sound too terrible if it's early in the morning. Not great, but doable. Am I allowed to complain that it was too cold early in the week and too warm later?
JamesD, ugh on the back stiffness. I've had mine periodically stiffen from stupid stuff like tyiing my shoes and drying my hair. Usually it feels better moving. Hopefully DW's achilles is ok.
Fred, somsthing I thought about with the warmer temp is that I feel like it is easier to start too fasst when it's warmer. If it's chilly, and you've been hanging around outsided & in the corral for a while, it take a mile or two to actually warm up.
Darkwave, it's definitely hard to figure out a goal pace. With the one full I did, I feel like I left time on the table, but didn't blow up and ran pretty even (it was when Strava had the challenge, I missed the free shoes by just over a minute).
MJ, yea, I tried to run part of a trail race with a faster friend, I gave that idea up real quick.
Hot Weather Complainer
Apologies for my absence - life has been very crazy with looking after my partner, work and study. 1 exam left next Thursday and thankfully I'm done with that for the year. I have had time out to run (and also to watch a team of referees decide the Rugby World Cup...) and I'm really just in a maintenance phase, still averaging around 80km per week. My base block for the next marathon starts on November 27, which is still 20 weeks from race day. I'm pacing a half in 10 days which should be great fun, just the 2 hour group, and I've got a 5km Park Run planned for November 25 that my coach is calling "line in the sand". It may be a PR attempt given my PR was run on tired legs, although I've done very little speed since the glorious half in Melbourne.
I'm reading the posts and will make sure I catch up once my life is a bit more normal.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Hi Steve - is your partner doing alright? TOtally missed it, just saw somewhere that you had to take care of a horse....all the best on that front. Don't worry, there is another worldcup in 4 years. That's the beauty of it. And good luck with your exams.
HK - haven't decided yet whether I get myself a treadmill or invest in some weights first. I am so lazy on the lifting front. Clearly not taking this running thing serious enough. I would probably go with a relatively reasonable treadmill at the $1000 mark, for budget reasons and I don't want to spend too much cash on something I might only use as towel holder at some stage. Don't know what the life expectancy of those things is.
MJ, my treadmill is ancient and we got it when a neighbor asked DH for help loading it into his truck to take it to the dump. It came to our basement instead. It's got to be over 20 years old. I've gotten plenty of use from it. It's a buyer beware type thing, but you can often find them for cheap when people buy them, have it turn into clothes storage and decide it's takinng up too much space.