2023 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread (Read 301 times)

Fredford66


Waltons ThreadLord

    Combined thread - my main argument against this in the past has been that certain behaviours on the other thread do not always make for a constructive or enjoyable environment.  There are multiple runners who disappeared from the other thread for exactly that reason.   Assuming that we want to create the most opportunity for a wide range of runners to participate, having two threads was a good way to facilitate that.  The other thread has actually pretty much no silly stuff over the last few months and I have no issue calling that out if it does happen.

     

    The other argument against a combined thread has been that at a certain point, it just gets hard to keep up and people can lose interest.  Like, it's possible to keep up with 10 or so weeklies from fellow runners but 20 or so and you'd lose track of stuff.  I'm not sure that's a major risk at the moment.

     

    So yeah, I'm up for giving a combined thread a go (again... we did try in 2022 and it didn't work out).

     

     

     

    This pretty much aligns with what I was going to write.  I'm not sure why some feel obligated to post in both places (maybe I'm misunderstanding and they want to do it to stay in touch with people in both places).  I suppose one way to resolve the matter is for people to post just where they want to and if one thread has too few people, it will fade away and those who were posting there will have to choose where to go.  By extension, anyone who doesn't want to be part of a bigger, combined thread, can always start up a smaller group and see who joins.  I'm not sure where I'm headed with this - seems a bit stream-of-consciousness, so I'll stop before I go too far down the rabbit hole or say something really dumb.

    5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
    10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

    Upcoming races: Greta's Run 5k, 5/19; Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12

     

    Fredford66


    Waltons ThreadLord

      Mark - Congratulations on the great race and strong finish.  I agree with your perspective that courses don't have to be fast to be fun.  There are plenty of quick, fast halves on the Jersey shore, but my favorite is inland with moderate rolling hills.  With regard to running below the high tide line, what do you do in years when the tide is in?  Or is the race always scheduled around the tide?

      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
      10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

      Upcoming races: Greta's Run 5k, 5/19; Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12

       

      JamesD


      JamesD

        Mark - Great race, and great RR.  I wonder if the people who told you first place was only 30 seconds ahead were taking into account their own speed - if they crossed paths with the leader and then with you 30 seconds later, you weren't where the leader was 30 seconds earlier, but where they ran to 30 seconds after they had crossed paths with the leader.  So you would have been 50 seconds behind if they were going at 2/3 your pace.

         

        I agree with you & Fred that non-fast courses can be fun.  My problem is that I run so few halfs, and all three I've run since setting my PR nearly five years ago have had poor weather, either cold or rain.  I want a chance at a good time again.  If I can get a good time, I have some ideas for other races I might enjoy even if the courses aren't fast.

        Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

        '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

        watsonc123


          Rune - my long runs at the moment normally Saturday.  So last week it didn't happen due to ParkRun replacing it.

          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

           

          40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

           

          2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

           

          2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

          Marky_Mark_17


             

             

            This pretty much aligns with what I was going to write.  I'm not sure why some feel obligated to post in both places (maybe I'm misunderstanding and they want to do it to stay in touch with people in both places).  I suppose one way to resolve the matter is for people to post just where they want to and if one thread has too few people, it will fade away and those who were posting there will have to choose where to go.  By extension, anyone who doesn't want to be part of a bigger, combined thread, can always start up a smaller group and see who joins.  I'm not sure where I'm headed with this - seems a bit stream-of-consciousness, so I'll stop before I go too far down the rabbit hole or say something really dumb.

             

            Exactly right.  I post in both to stay in touch with the people that don't cross-post.  I think you're spot on as well in that if the big thread gets too big then perhaps some will start another thread.

             

            Fred - the usual December timing of the race is generally around low tide.  When it was held in March 2022 (deferred from December 2021), the tide was a bit higher, probably midway between high and low tide I would say.  There was still plenty of firm sand to run on, albeit I do remember we were a lot closer to the waterline that time... one of my great memories of that race is the way the sunrise was sparkling off the water next to us along the beach.

             

            James - estimates ranged from 20-40 seconds, so I am guessing some people were better at the maths than others.  I wouldn't be surprised if we had picked up a few seconds on the leader over the last few km given that we were forcing the pace and he didn't have anyone with him.

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

            Up next: Still working on that...

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            Half Crazy K 2.0


              My week:

              Monday 2.7 (treadmill problems)

              Tuesday 6 easy

              Wednesday 6 with 5x 3min + 3x2 min

              Thursday strength training

              Fridaay 6 miles

              Saturday 12

              Sunday 6.9

               

              If you're wondering about the increase in mikes, mileage game. Last ditch effort to try to help keep my team alive. I conttacted a local company to see what they charge for treadmill service. $250. Nope, treadmill is not worth that.

               

              Re. Threads, I agree with what Mark said & what Fred seconded. I do lurk in the jerks thread. It has seemed more polite recently.

               

              MJ, I've dabbled with some of the Daniel's plans and in the newer editions, he has plans for lower mileage. The 5x3min + 3x2 min workout is from one of his plans. I really like that as an interval workout.

               

              Watson, nice job on the race. Gravel, dirt and grass defintely make for a slower race.

               

              Steve, I find it challenging to "match" hills with hill repeats. About the only way to make it exact is on a treadmill.

               

              Darkwave, sounds promising that you are less fatigured. Frustrating to take a medication to help with one thing and have it create a set of new issues.

               

              JamesD, congrats on passing last year's mileage. Hope the knee is feeling better.

               

              Mark, congrats on the OA placement. That race sound really challenging--curious what type of shoes you wear for that. Do yo feel like being up front helps on the hard packed sand? I've done  race that was supposed to be on "human packed" sand on the horse track, it was not, but maybe it got churned up by everyone in front.

               

              rune, welcome to the thread.

               

              Fred, I think the more inland you go, you also have less chance of the strong ocean "breeze". The trade off for the hills is less wind.

              Marky_Mark_17


                 

                Mark, congrats on the OA placement. That race sound really challenging--curious what type of shoes you wear for that. Do yo feel like being up front helps on the hard packed sand? I've done  race that was supposed to be on "human packed" sand on the horse track, it was not, but maybe it got churned up by everyone in front.

                 

                 

                Just the same Vaporflies I normally wear for racing.  The terrain is definitely mixed, but not enough (in my opinion) to justify switching to trail shoes as road / concrete is still the majority of the course.  I think the beach actually holds up pretty well, at least where there is some moisture in the sand - having run on horse tracks once or twice I can see how that would degrade a lot faster.

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                Up next: Still working on that...

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  Mark - great race & report. Silver medal…. Normalizing for the weather conditions - you are at par with your PB on that course, that is awesome. Daniels is tough I think, although they have so many plans and I followed the half ass one (2 Quality sessions per week) and that was actually pretty ok. They tailor to all, including the slow folks. I used to get injured trying to follow the proper one; he wrote it for the unbreakable 20-year-old college kids. Your daughter rocks.

                  Combined Thread - the jerks thread moves fast; I thought it was more the fast guys/gals wanting to have their own space. I think this one is cool; I benefit a lot here. If you prefer to post over there, just stop by here every now and then to give some advice!

                  Half – really nice week! I like the Daniels interval workouts. But they are getting harder for me to hit the paces, because I am not running enough. TM and Burning rubber…. doesn’t sound good. Hope you get a good deal at your local Dick’s Warehouse or maybe on Craigslist, although I was looking at my local craigslist and some people where giving their TM away over summer; just had to come, dissemble and take back. Now in winter, everyone is trying to charge close to the price for a new one, as stores are running out. Really a timing thing, I might wait until January/February for the deals. Or summer for a free one.

                  Rune – good to see you around, I got to pick up the work so you don’t beat me haha. Hope your niggles hold back now. I see your swift workouts and wow that is some serious wattage. I have been doing some cycling on an Suito roller but I never get anywhere close. Although I am sure you are doing yours on that super-fast bike, ha. I am too cheap to join Swift for now, but heard a lot of good things of people running on the TM and connected to swift. I might give that a try at some stage. Where and when is your favorite half? Do you cross the bay for that? I am thinking about

                  All others – nice weeks! Keep it up and Watson I like the pictures, you look very much in control and good that you were able to shake of the teenager!!!

                  I have 7hours of workouts. 2 runs, 4xindoor cycling (almost done with the Netflix show on the Movistar cycling team), one tennis session.

                  Weekly for period: From: 27/11/2023 To 03/12/2023

                  Weekly Grid

                  Date

                  Name

                  mi

                  km

                  Duration

                  Avg/mi

                  Avg/km

                  Elevation Gain
                  in m

                  27/11

                  4x1mile at Threshold Pace and then huffing and puffing for 1 min in between

                  9.40

                  15.13

                  01:20:48

                  08:36

                  05:20

                  93

                  28/11

                  Morning Ride - it was raining once again, and freezing cold.

                  18.65

                  30.01

                  01:18:15

                  04:12

                  02:36

                  0

                  29/11

                  4x1200m@Intervall Pace with 3min of lying flat on the track and breathing like a maniac in between

                  6.47

                  10.41

                  00:55:50

                  08:38

                  05:22

                  53

                  01/12

                  Morning Ride

                  14.36

                  23.11

                  01:02:15

                  04:20

                  02:42

                  0

                  01/12

                  Evening Tennis

                  0.14

                  0.22

                  00:57:43

                  412:16

                  262:21

                  0

                  02/12

                  Afternoon Ride

                  18.78

                  30.21

                  01:06:32

                  03:33

                  02:12

                  0

                  03/12

                  Afternoon Ride

                  11.96

                  19.24

                  00:52:56

                  04:26

                  02:45

                  0

                  Totals: Time: 07:34:19 - 🦅Imperial: 16.01 mi - Metric: 25.76 km

                  HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                   

                  2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

                  runethechamp


                    Watson - I see, that makes sense. I still like the idea of it (JD had many long workouts mid-week).

                     

                    Half - Thanks, not a bad week overall. Makes me happy I very rarely need to even consider running on a treadmill (I'm in the SF Bay Area)

                     

                    Mick - Yeah, I got a trainer during COVID when I signed up for my triathlon training program. The TT bike was basically parked there all year until a few weeks before the race when I needed to take it out to make sure I felt comfortable on it on the road. The club runs workouts every Tuesday and Thursday mornings, plus a group ride on Saturdays or Sundays, and they are probably the lowest barrier morning workouts I can do since I don't have to go outside or get in my car to drive to a pool. Just get up, put on bike clothes, grab something quick to eat or drink and a bottle of water, and go sit on the trainer. Then I get a pretty focused hour of work on Zwift with the coach and the team together on a zoom call on the side. The watts aren't much compared to a lot of other people I know who ride but I was happy with the time at my HIM ride in September.

                     

                    Favorite HM is the local Bay Breeze/Summer Breeze Half Marathon. I'm pretty sure you will not find a flatter course, out and back on a bike/pedestrian path right next to the water. The race is called Bay Breeze in February and Summer Breeze in July. It looks like I've run both twice (2016 and 2018), and I almost always have a good experience there. They also usually have good pacers for each 5-minute finish time interval.

                     

                    https://brazenracing.com/baybreeze/

                     

                    And my best race there:

                    https://www.strava.com/activities/1401144373/overview

                     

                    I'm really hoping I can stay injury-free this time around. Even with all the other training I do (and like!), there's really something special about the simplicity of running. Put on some shorts, a shirt, and some shoes and go. And you can be in your own world until you come back home again.

                     

                    Btw Mick, did you get a new Strava account? The one I am connected to has nothing since Berlin, and when I click on your workouts Strava tells me they don't exist.

                    5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                     

                    Getting back into it

                      Watson - I see, that makes sense. I still like the idea of it (JD had many long workouts mid-week).

                       

                      Half - Thanks, not a bad week overall. Makes me happy I very rarely need to even consider running on a treadmill (I'm in the SF Bay Area)

                       

                      Mick - Yeah, I got a trainer during COVID when I signed up for my triathlon training program. The TT bike was basically parked there all year until a few weeks before the race when I needed to take it out to make sure I felt comfortable on it on the road. The club runs workouts every Tuesday and Thursday mornings, plus a group ride on Saturdays or Sundays, and they are probably the lowest barrier morning workouts I can do since I don't have to go outside or get in my car to drive to a pool. Just get up, put on bike clothes, grab something quick to eat or drink and a bottle of water, and go sit on the trainer. Then I get a pretty focused hour of work on Zwift with the coach and the team together on a zoom call on the side. The watts aren't much compared to a lot of other people I know who ride but I was happy with the time at my HIM ride in September.

                       

                      Favorite HM is the local Bay Breeze/Summer Breeze Half Marathon. I'm pretty sure you will not find a flatter course, out and back on a bike/pedestrian path right next to the water. The race is called Bay Breeze in February and Summer Breeze in July. It looks like I've run both twice (2016 and 2018), and I almost always have a good experience there. They also usually have good pacers for each 5-minute finish time interval.

                       

                      https://brazenracing.com/baybreeze/

                       

                      And my best race there:

                      https://www.strava.com/activities/1401144373/overview

                       

                      I'm really hoping I can stay injury-free this time around. Even with all the other training I do (and like!), there's really something special about the simplicity of running. Put on some shorts, a shirt, and some shoes and go. And you can be in your own world until you come back home again.

                       

                      Btw Mick, did you get a new Strava account? The one I am connected to has nothing since Berlin, and when I click on your workouts Strava tells me they don't exist.

                      Cool, I am in the Bay Area once every other year or so - and usually around July/August. So I might go up there. Watson I believe also mentioned running some beautiful trails near Muir beach if I recall correctly. So that would be cool. SF marathon on July 28th, then the bay breeze half the week after on the other side and some trails up north in between, to shake the lactate off. Sounds like a good triathlon to me Smile Interesting on your PB on that day: you fell; you ran it in Hoka Claytons (no super shoes) and you ran the tangents perfectly. Pretty cool race!

                       

                      Didn't know you formed part of a club. That sounds pretty cool, now those workouts make a lot more sense the way they show on Strava. And I agree with you, I love the simplicity of just hoping on the bike and getting a good workout in. Couldn't be more convenient.

                       

                      Weather is pretty shit here in Europe as you will know, but still good for mental health to get some fresh air and a bit of sunshine during daytime. We usually complain when it snows, is icey, but also when it starts to get warm and dry and hot. Professional weather complainers all year around.

                       

                      You had it going your way until Amsterdam, on the running front. That was a massive break in your running career. Hope you can stay fit and redeem that one day.

                       

                      I have to say, cross training is great but you cannot really substitute running high mileage with crosstraining. A bit a bummer when I found out while doing some research. I plan on running a marathon next year, and try and do that off of 4 runs and 3 bike sessions per week. See how that turns out.

                       

                      On Strava, I had taken the whole thing private; no particular reason other than being too lazy in trying to figure out fancy titles to replace: lunch run. But I have now opened it back up. Not sure there is much to see, but anyways!

                      HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                       

                      2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

                      Fredford66


                      Waltons ThreadLord

                        Finally getting around to posting my miles from last week (even on this smaller thread, I sometimes can't keep up).

                         

                        I finally got over 30 miles for a week, my best since the marathon.

                         

                        Mon - rest

                        Tue - easy 6.4

                        Wed - rest

                        Thu - easy 5.9

                        Fri - easy 6.4

                        Sat - easy 7.1 (longest run so far, post-marathon)

                        Sun - easy 6.2

                         

                        32.0 miles / 51.1km / 5:36:26

                        5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
                        10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

                        Upcoming races: Greta's Run 5k, 5/19; Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12

                         

                        Fredford66


                        Waltons ThreadLord

                          I am in support of one combined thread because:

                          1) it means I don't have to come up with two intelligent comments on the weeklies of those who post in both threads.

                           

                           

                           

                          Intelligent or otherwise, just don't post the exact same thing on multiple threads lest the forum software decide you are a spammer and bans you from posting.

                           

                          Rune - Best of luck staying injury free.  I know exactly what you mean regarding the benefits of being in your own world while running.

                           

                          Mick - Looks like you're getting back to more frequent running.

                           

                          Mark - I know what you mean about mixed terrain and racing vs. trail shoes.  My local ParkRun is on a canal path, which means compacted earth/dirt with some crushed limestone.  I tried trail shoes and other road shoes (for better traction) but in the end race shoes are still the best on that surface.

                           

                          HCK - The sea breeze is definitely a factor on coastal races.  I hope you come up with a solution for your treadmill issues.

                           

                          Watson - Do you plan to go to ParkRun more often and consider moving your long run, or is ParkRun something you do only occasionally?

                           

                          James - Sorry to hear about the knee.  Has it improved at all since you posted a few days ago?

                           

                          Darkwave - Thank you for the congrats.  Medicines can be so unpredictable in their effects, such as suppressing your maximum running heart rate.  I hope you fan fine tune the dosage.  Your running is still strong and impressive.

                           

                          Steve - Good luck with the hill work and the doubles.  You're putting in a lot of effort there.

                           

                          It sounds (so far) like a handful of people want to keep a separate, smaller thread going for next year.  Would we want the thread to start off with a race list?  If so, it should be started by someone willing to maintain that list.

                          5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
                          10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

                          Upcoming races: Greta's Run 5k, 5/19; Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12

                           

                          dktrotter


                          Dorothea

                            As someone who primarily reads and posts exclusively in the other thread due to limited bandwidth, but who would not be opposed to reading from more folks, and who considers themselves more a Walton-type to begin with, but would miss out on the reports of some of the competitive jerks, I like the idea of joint threads. However, I can understand how it wouldn't please all the folks of either current thread, and there may be some folks who splinter off into smaller group(s), but that would be their call.

                            Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                            Last race: April 28, Glass City Marathon, 3:29:53. Saw deer; cried; didn't melt in rain or heat. 

                            DavePNW


                              Combined thread - my main argument against this in the past has been that certain behaviours on the other thread do not always make for a constructive or enjoyable environment. 

                               

                              I only read/post in the other one - just opened this by accident, lol. In my relatively limited experience, it's been mainly one instigator. I originally thought there were more, but I think others tend to pile on only when that one person instigates. That person has been relatively quiet lately, and not coincidentally the thread has been pretty civilized. But who knows what the future will bring.

                              Dave

                              Fredford66


                              Waltons ThreadLord

                                I guess my question would be how many people, other than me, post only here and what's the count of regulars on the other thread so I can get an idea what the size of the combined thread would be.  I have trouble keeping up with just the people here, but if the incremental change in population for a combined thread isn't high, then I may be able to keep up on a single thread.

                                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
                                10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

                                Upcoming races: Greta's Run 5k, 5/19; Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12