2023 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread (Read 301 times)

Fredford66


Waltons ThreadLord

    Steve - Nice week of building up.  I also like to avoid roads that are too narrow; I don't like having nowhere to dodge if a drive isn't paying attention.

     

    Darkwave - I've dealt with similar track issues.  Fortunately, I have two local tracks to choose from.

     

    Mick - Good luck on the search for a TM and with your HM training.

     

    Watson - Looks like a good week indeed.

     

    James - Sorry to hear the knee is still an issue for you.

     

     

    Well, I've had a month of mostly easy running since the marathon and now I'm back to training.  The first set of repeats have a lot of recovery, proportionate to the fast work, but I see it mostly as getting accustomed to that kind of running again.  Plus, all that recovery time gave my RP and me more time to chat and catch up with each other.  32.6 miles / 54.5 km / 5:29:12 for the week.  Also, Sunday's run got me over 2,000 miles (3,218km) for the year; only the second time I've reached that level.

     

    Date Workout Type Distance Duration Pace Temp
    12/6/2023  12 x 400m/400m Repeats   8.4 mi 1:20:16   9:34  32
    12/7/2023   Easy   3.6 mi    38:17 10:39  34
    12/8/2023   Easy 10.0 mi 1:41:25 10:07  45
    12/9/2023   Easy   3.4 mi    39:41 11:41  34
    12/10/2023  4 @ HM Pace Pace   7.2 mi 1:09:33   9:43  48
    5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
    10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

    Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12

     

    runethechamp


      Mick - You might not be running as much as other people in this thread, but you still beat me :-). Regarding the SF Marathon, it's expensive now ($240 at the moment), and the race starts at the god-awful time of 5:15 am. Regarding the Tri club, it's nothing I formed, but rather something I joined. I generally like their approach to things and I feel like I get a lot out of the money I pay for it all. My experience before was exactly what you described, it's hard to get the same results when you substitute more running for cross-training. However, it will be interesting to see what the difference will be now when easy runs are replaced by actual harder swim and bike workouts. Also, when I ran 50+ miles per week, that was around 7 hours of running, which felt like it wore me down a lot. Last week I was at 6.5 hours total workout time, and it felt pretty relaxed. So this way I think I can get in more training while not feeling fatigued. In any case, let's see where it brings me with some (hopefully) more consistency.

       

      Darkwave - You are right in your earlier post, I could have hung around even if I wasn't running much (or at all). My whole running journey after 2018 has felt really difficult or frustrating though, so when I can't run, I tend to just zone out from anything running related. I'll give it a try again now though. I like your race report btw, nice running! Also, regarding your plywood-covered lanes, the extra length should be 2*3.14*lane width per lane. I did a quick Google Earth measurement on a track with 3.5-foot lanes, and sure enough, there was about a 22-foot offset between the 400m starting positions.

       

      Steve - Solid week!

       

      James - Good luck with the knee. It sounds like a meniscus injury to me (that was the last injury I struggled with, appeared in early 2021). As your knee bends, you load different parts of the meniscus. Do you find that swimming aggravates it?

       

      Watson - Nice week!

       

      Fred - That's both a nice week and a very solid year.

       

      I wish I would have had time to run more this week but work caught up to me a couple of days. Saturday's run was great, ran 8 miles at a very comfortable pace. It wasn't truly easy pace, but my legs kept inching up the pace, and my HR wasn't too high anyway so I just let it happen. And I definitely got a boost from the comments by two ladies I passed on the bike path. I also think my bike and swim shape are getting better, the workouts definitely feel easier.

       

      Weekly for period: From: 12/04/2023 To 12/10/2023

      <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
      in ft
      12/05 Zwift - Group Workout: Tower 26 Group Workout (E) on Tempus Fugit in Watopia 16.82 27.06 01:01:50 03:41 02:17 138
      12/05 Morning Run 1.65 2.66 00:17:32 10:38 06:35 59
      12/05 Afternoon Weight Training 0.00 0.00 00:35:04 00:00 00:00 0
      12/06 Swim warmup 0.00 0.00 00:27:52 00:00 00:00 0
      12/06 Evening Swim 3050 yds 2.63 00:49:15 1:34/100 yd 18:44 0
      12/08 Zwift - Power Hour: (5/5) in Watopia 19.56 31.46 01:01:26 03:08 01:57 495
      12/09 Afternoon Weight Training 0.00 0.00 00:08:59 00:00 00:00 0
      12/09 M, m, m, look at those legs 8.02 12.90 01:14:44 09:19 05:48 138
      12/10 Swim warmup 0.00 0.00 00:07:04 00:00 00:00 0
      12/10 Afternoon Swim 3100 yds 2.77 00:50:12 1:35/100 yd 18:07 0

      Totals: Time: 06:33:58 - 🦅Imperial: 46.04 mi - Metric: 74.08 km

      5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

       

      Getting back into it

      Half Crazy K 2.0


        My week (staying in a warm bed just seemed better most days than running more)

        Monday upper body strength

        Tuesday 5.5 miles

        Wednesday 4 miles

        Thursday full body strength

        Friday am 4 miles

        Saturday rest day

        Sunday 2.5 easy + lower body strength

         

        Steve, nice week. I'm the same, I try to stay off narrow roads. With the hills, is visibility also an issue if it's not straight?

         

        James, hope the knee gets better.

         

        watson, nice week. As far as warming up, I wonder if there is a small amount that is helpful just to get the blood flowing (especially if it's cold).

         

        MJ, do you play tennis inside? I'm guessing yes from the ice comment..

         

        Darkwave, are they doing work on the field? The one local track has had the plywood on it in the past. They also put it down and tend to leave it for a while during football season, I think to run the power to the inflatible gator head. Sunday was a rough day to race, nice job!

         

        Fred, nice week & yearly miles. Are you already starting a plan for your spring HM?

         

        rune, is the SF marathon in the summer or does it start in the dark? That's really pricey. As an east coaster, the 5:15 start may not be too terrible, when we travel to the west coast, we usually wind up awake early.

        runethechamp


           

          rune, is the SF marathon in the summer or does it start in the dark? That's really pricey. As an east coaster, the 5:15 start may not be too terrible, when we travel to the west coast, we usually wind up awake early.

           

          Yeah, summer race, end of July. Perfect time for fog and cool weather. I'm not getting up to race at 5:15, that's for sure.

          5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

           

          Getting back into it

            Rune - $240 is pretty expensive I agree. The starting time is early but you end up with two good reasons to be tired after the marathon, not just one Smile I really wished that hard bike workouts had the same impact as easy running, but it seems that it doesn't according to LetsRun.com and Reddit etc. But how big is the gap, meaning, you might not get the same benefits since you aren't using the same muscles. However, maybe you still get to 90% in your marathon form - and that might be much more pleasant and sustainable than just running. I will be a true follower of the Rune-method and will buy that book, if you ever decide to commercialize your findings!!!

             

            Half - they put a balloon over the clay court from October to March. Its freaking expensive to play indoors, but I love it, despite being a really bad player. Same as golf btw.

             

            Fred - congrats on the mileage. That's a lot of consistency. And you didn't really cut back all that much post your race.

             

            My yearly mileage - I will likely be breaking 3'000km this year, which is an all time high for me. I will also be breaking 1'000km biking. But I really only started over the summer months and I am biking 2 times per week now, so this will likely be increasing over time. I only had some smaller niggles this year, nothing major. Very grateful for not getting injured this year, this was definitely new.

            HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

             

            2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

            Fredford66


            Waltons ThreadLord

               

               

              Fred - congrats on the mileage. That's a lot of consistency. And you didn't really cut back all that much post your race.

               

               

              Thanks.  I did cut back more than you might realize.  In October I logged 255 miles.  In November it was less than half of that, at 120 miles, which includes the marathon.

              5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
              10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

              Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12

               

                 

                Thanks.  I did cut back more than you might realize.  In October I logged 255 miles.  In November it was less than half of that, at 120 miles, which includes the marathon.

                 

                Was October your peak month?

                 

                So if I compare my peak month which was around 400km or running in August, marathon run in September, and then I went into hibernation in October 140km. From my point of view you are still running loads. Maybe not relative to your peak, but relative to me Smile

                HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                 

                2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

                Fredford66


                Waltons ThreadLord

                   

                  Was October your peak month?

                   

                  So if I compare my peak month which was around 400km or running in August, marathon run in September, and then I went into hibernation in October 140km. From my point of view you are still running loads. Maybe not relative to your peak, but relative to me Smile

                   

                  Yes, October was peak, but September and August were pretty high (for me) too.  And yes, everything is relative when it comes to mileage.

                  5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
                  10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

                  Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12

                   

                  JamesD


                  JamesD

                     

                     James - Good luck with the knee. It sounds like a meniscus injury to me (that was the last injury I struggled with, appeared in early 2021). As your knee bends, you load different parts of the meniscus. Do you find that swimming aggravates it?

                     

                    Several years ago, physical therapists thought I had meniscus trouble, though an MRI (or maybe X-rays) didn't show anything.  I've stopped swimming because I think that will aggravate it, and if I can only do a little exercise until it improves I'd rather have it be all running.  That said, I had been swimming around 4 hours/month nearly all year until late October and have done almost none since then for a number of reasons, so I doubt swimming is the cause of my current trouble.  I've read that you don't start to lose aerobic fitness until you take 3 days off, so I took the last two off and will try the treadmill today.

                     

                    Looks like a lot of us will have similar mileage totals for the year - I probably won't get to 1,900 like I had expected but should be over 1,800, which is close to 3K kilometers.

                    Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                    '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

                        

                      Wullie ran a great marathon. Amazing, didn't put in a lot of mileage, just ran it somehow. Crazy fitness, same as Watson. Speaking of which nice work - 7 hours and nice mileage too. I am envious.

                       

                      Thread discussion - we didn't really consider the competitive runners there. I think they are happy with their thread and not sure they would appreciate being in a more crowded thread. So maybe we should probably just leave it as is. And hope its not too much work for the fast Waltons to post on both threads re race reports and weeklies.

                       

                       

                       

                      MJ - Cheers for the shoutout. It was my second marathon and took it as a base builder for Boston next year. It was four loops (same as Christchurch) and that seems to sit well with my personality! It was a small field, and I was pretty much running just with one other guy around me. Although being multiple loops, you are never too far away from being able to cheer people on or see how far away the people behind you are.

                       

                      Everyone - Sorry about being AWOL. Although I have popped in from time to time to read how the thread is going and have tried to follow races when I could.

                       

                      Thread discussion - I think there is a place in this world for The Waltons thread.

                       

                      Marathon Goals - I'm excited to see how strong I can get in the last 10km of a marathon. I (think) I've learnt a lot from the last two marathons and am looking forward to putting that into practice. One of my biggest learnings is that I need to plan for life to get in the way!

                      50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

                      2024 Goals: Boston Perish Run Sub 3:15 - Road/Track 10km Sub 37:30 - 5km Sub 18:20

                       

                       

                      runethechamp


                         Several years ago, physical therapists thought I had meniscus trouble, though an MRI (or maybe X-rays) didn't show anything.  I've stopped swimming because I think that will aggravate it, and if I can only do a little exercise until it improves I'd rather have it be all running.  That said, I had been swimming around 4 hours/month nearly all year until late October and have done almost none since then for a number of reasons, so I doubt swimming is the cause of my current trouble.  I've read that you don't start to lose aerobic fitness until you take 3 days off, so I took the last two off and will try the treadmill today.

                         

                         

                        I did an x-ray, and whatever I had was not big enough to show up there. But icing and strengthening of the area over time has helped. I can still feel it at times, if I do a really deep squat or something similar, but it seems to have healed enough that I have yet to actually do any new damage to the area. I have learned over time during my appointments with my sports doctor (both for this injury and my hamstring injury) to differentiate between the area getting irritated and a tad inflamed (which I can feel on both from time to time), and the injury actually getting worse. Swimming has been my savior through all this and I've gotten so far in my swimming journey that I don't intend to stop. As I mentioned on this forum a year or two ago, swimming is a lot more fun with proper and good length workouts, where you really get whipped into swimming shape.

                        5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                         

                        Getting back into it

                        watsonc123


                          Wullie - I somehow missed your marathon.  That looked a rather painful second half!

                          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                           

                          40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                           

                          2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                           

                          2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                          Fredford66


                          Waltons ThreadLord

                             

                             Fred, nice week & yearly miles. Are you already starting a plan for your spring HM?

                             

                             

                            Yes, I am.  The E. Murray Todd in Lincroft on March 10.  Probably my favorite half in NJ.

                             

                            On the thread issue, by my rough count there are at least a half dozen people who have spoken out in favor of keeping this thread separate and a few more who are ambivalent about it.  Looks like the Waltons will be renewed for another year.

                            5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
                            10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

                            Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12

                             

                            runethechamp


                              Rune - I really wished that hard bike workouts had the same impact as easy running, but it seems that it doesn't according to LetsRun.com and Reddit etc. But how big is the gap, meaning, you might not get the same benefits since you aren't using the same muscles. However, maybe you still get to 90% in your marathon form - and that might be much more pleasant and sustainable than just running. I will be a true follower of the Rune-method and will buy that book, if you ever decide to commercialize your findings!!!

                              I know several people who claim they got faster by running less and swimming more, but these are of course people who already do all three disciplines, not people going from running only to a swim/bike/run plan. One of the coaches (who admittedly is a freak), just ran a 1:21 HM at the end of a HIM with about 600 miles of running so far this year. I also think Lucy Charles Barclay ran her fastest-ever IM marathon in Kona this year after she had to take a lot of time off running and instead increased swimming volume. But she also trains a TON. Let's see how it goes 

                              5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                               

                              Getting back into it

                                Wullie - I somehow missed your marathon.  That looked a rather painful second half!

                                 

                                If it looks painful imagine how it felt! lol

                                 

                                Yeah, I'm still learning to not treat the full perish like a half. But I'm enjoying the different challenge and hopefully can put together a better training block for Boston '24.

                                50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

                                2024 Goals: Boston Perish Run Sub 3:15 - Road/Track 10km Sub 37:30 - 5km Sub 18:20