Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Fishy - You’re an old bloke over 50yo who ran a 3:03 at Boston from wave 2. Some people like myself will be very impressed by that and maybe it’s time to get the AG% card out.
+1 (very impressive)
RP - "a man of few words". Were you around back when MrMattM broke 3h in Chicago? His RR was so long he had to post it in daily installments over the course of a week. I trust you won't be outdone...
Stopped by to lurk and see how Boston went....
RP, wow was that inspirational! I don't think I knew your whole backstory and how much progress you made so quickly. I'm eagerly awaiting the next 26 chapters of your race report.
Steve, so sorry to hear cramping did in another marathon for you but equally inspiring that you're not giving up. Best of luck!
5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)
Problem Child
+1 (very impressive) RP - "a man of few words". Were you around back when MrMattM broke 3h in Chicago? His RR was so long he had to post it in daily installments over the course of a week. I trust you won't be outdone...
I was not.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Not an 80%er
RP - I was glued to my phone screen while reading that, and having a chuckle from time to time. That was very entertaining!
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials)
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Hash if you’re going to run Boston my suggestion would be to do long runs with hills in them. Not just little rollers. The hills you want to avoid in a long run. The type of hills you know you don’t like to run, and now you have to run them “with purpose.” Also, plan on being in a very tight group of racers for probably the first half of your race.
Cheers, RP. I live on a hill, in a hilly city, so it's the perfect spot for Boston training. But I will be taking all pointers and advice and adding them to my Boston 2024 training notebook!
And cheers to everyone else. Absolutely stoked with my race, and very glad I didn't poop my pants or vomit up from my gels (I actually only used two gels and two Cliff Bloks, but that was more than I've ever used before so wasn't really sure how that was gonna play out).
Steve - Selwyn Perish run sounds like a good idea. How about without your watch as well?
CK - It was a very crowded start, and I guess trips and falls can happen. He seemed in good spirits after the race, and even joined his other clubmates in the pub afterwards (against the paramedics advice it has to be said!). I did remind him that his beers should all be on his mate who tripped him!
RP & Fishy - Enjoyed reading your RRs. I always have a terrible sleep in a hotel, and have black tape in my toilet bag to tape up any annoying lights in my room. I've also been known to unplug the mini-fridge and anything else that might make a hint of noise.
50+ age-group PBs: Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42
2024 Goals: Boston Perish Run Sub 3:15 - Road/Track 10km Sub 37:30 - 5km Sub 18:20
Damn RP- That was an EPIC build-up!! I can't wait for the rest of the story. Once again I've been upstaged by the youngster. WTF, now I've got to train harder in both my running AND writing.
Mikkey- Age grading....you really are trying to suck JMac and Cal back in!
Thanks to all who commented. I truly appreciate every one.
I actually looking forward to running some recovery miles today Last year at this time I was pouting about my 3:20 and wasted some of the best running weather in New England. Not this year! My only question going into the summer is if I continue the lower mileage (60-70) MPW training or go back to basics for a while and try to put in some high mileage weeks before the next block. Did the lower mileage and fewer 20 milers contribute to my fade? I know it made me faster (evidenced by the Half PR) but did it also contribute a bit to the lack of finishing kick?
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Overweight per CDC BMI
RP - Your race report left out critical details like your seat number on the plane, the temp you set the thermostat in the hotel, the name of your Uber driver, and the friggin RACE!
I made it about half way through while stretching this morning. I look forward to reading volumes 2-4...
Memphis / 38 male
5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10
RP - Your race report left out critical details like your seat number on the plane, the temp you set the thermostat in the hotel, the name of your Uber driver, and the friggin RACE! I made it about half way through while stretching this morning. I look forward to reading volumes 2-4...
Going to Boston I was row 19. Coming home I was row 2. Gate B36 out of BOS and C16F out of SEA. I had 3 different Uber drivers. One was a green Camry, one was a highlander (I think) from the hotel, and the last one was some small silver car. The first one was the best and the last one gave me the vibe of "this is why people in big cities vote to raise taxes. He literally couldn't give less of a shit about this place. He's here to make a dollar and go home."
Temp was set in the hotel by my wife, and the fucking window was screwed shut so the next time I visit boston I'm either bringing a Milwaukee Fuel Impact driver with nut driver set, or asking room service for one. Too many people threw the microwaves out the window so I can't use mother nature to air out my room and dry my clothes a little.
Fishy I practically handed you the map to success. Break 3 hours to get a red bib so you can type "verbal diarrhea" to the enjoyment of others.
Something I find interesting is my 5k and marathon performance. For YEARS it's always been a conversation about my marathons and 5k PRs not lining up due to how old they were, or I never actually trained for a 5k specifically, or never ran one at sea level as I do my marathons. Using the spreadsheet on the front page it tells me:
What gives? They're that equal of a performance? Marathon Scott can't rip a 5k as well as he can the marathon? Build for comfort not speed?
Cobra Commander Keen
Something I find interesting is my 5k and marathon performance. For YEARS it's always been a conversation about my marathons and 5k PRs not lining up due to how old they were, or I never actually trained for a 5k specifically, or never ran one at sea level as I do my marathons. Using the spreadsheet on the front page it tells me: a 2:55:22 marathon (6:41/mi, 4:09/km) matches up with a 18:17 5K (5:53/mi., 3:39/km). My 5k PR is 18:22 set 4 or 5 weeks ago (March 12 I think). My 18:22 5k points to a 2:56:09 marathon which was my PR up until Monday afternoon. Threshold, Interval and Repetition pace changes 1 second faster using the marathon time compared to the 5k time. VDOT increses from 55.01 to 55.2 My average heart rate for the race according to Garmin was 165 which is the top value for Marathon and the low level for Threshold. I guess that is where I'd want to live for a marathon, right? What gives? They're that equal of a performance? Marathon Scott can't rip a 5k as well as he can the marathon? Build for comfort not speed?
The way yours line up is an anomaly - you don't have a "performance curve" you have a "performance line". This is the way things happen in a textbook or online calculator, not typical of real life.
My 5k PR (which wasn't all out, so what follows looks even better than reality) is 17:58, which Daniels says is a 2:52:07 equivalent (VDOT 56.4).
My marathon PR is 2:56:05, which points to a 18:23 5k (VDOT 54.9).
One of us has a massive speed surplus.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
?
He lives in Wellington. He's definitely good with hills.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
And wind Mark
Keen you just need to go out and get that 2.52
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
You can't compare your 5k and marathon PRs. You tapered for the marathon, but not for the 5k. Also, IIRC, for the 5k race the road was slippery in some parts. You are obviously capable of 18 low or maybe sub 18 on a 5k when tapered with good weather.
If I were you, I'd go out there and run a 17:57 5k, for no reason 😈
Keen - the same logic applies to you. You ran that 5k with zero taper in the middle of a 100 mile week. You ran it at 90% capacity at most. Your probably a sub 17:40/17:45 5k runner, but we'll never know since you're moving to ultras 😁
Miles 3-6 I was expecting the crowds to thin but it was a full on dogfight. The aid stations were a nightmare. Miles 6-13 Finally starting to get some running room. Still experimenting with right and left and passing many, many runners. Miles 13-20 Still very crowded but I start to concentrate on cruising and covering miles.
Miles 3-6
I was expecting the crowds to thin but it was a full on dogfight. The aid stations were a nightmare.
Miles 6-13
Finally starting to get some running room. Still experimenting with right and left and passing many, many runners.
Miles 13-20
Still very crowded but I start to concentrate on cruising and covering miles.
Fishy - Well done given these "course conditions". I like starting longer races with people a little slower than me to make sure I keep it easy the first 2 miles but I couldn't imagine having people slow me down practically the entire 26 miles. Even with RP's video of himself finishing under 3 hours, there were still tons of people finishing at the same time. While I certainly have a goal of a sub-BQ time eventually, I just couldn't imagine Black Friday crowds for 2 hours before the race and then the 3 hours during the race. That sounds about like running a marathon in the Atlanta airport.
I think one of the issues in general too with two young kids is I feel like I'm missing some opportunities with them on my runs. If I want to continue running, I'd have to learn how to be a morning runner, at least on the weekends. For the kids running, yes I can tell my oldest is interested. It's sad because literally yesterday she was using bean bags as "ice packs" and putting them on me because she said "daddy hurt himself running." So sad. I'm already an old man in her eyes. That's why I still post here - ya'll tell me I'm still young
I think one of the issues in general too with two young kids is I feel like I'm missing some opportunities with them on my runs. If I want to continue running, I'd have to learn how to be a morning runner, at least on the weekends.
For the kids running, yes I can tell my oldest is interested. It's sad because literally yesterday she was using bean bags as "ice packs" and putting them on me because she said "daddy hurt himself running." So sad. I'm already an old man in her eyes. That's why I still post here - ya'll tell me I'm still young
JMac - as for balancing running time and time with the kids, it will be a huge challenge to keep up 2500+ miles per year without absolutely pissing off your wife. This is one of the reasons I am still a budget-mileage runner with a week over 40 miles being a big deal to me. As they get older, life gets busier. Take yesterday, I went into the office for work so no mid-day run, then left work early for track practice where I maybe ran 2 miles with the kids, then went to my younger son's t-ball game, then immediately to older son's baseball practice to get home after 8pm. Last Saturday was even worse with baseball game from 9-11, t-ball game 11:30-12:30, then a track meet from 1-6, so the late evening run didn't happen due to strong cravings for beer after that day.
Anyway, my point is that you just have to find creative ways to get in mileage without neglecting the family and find ways to have your kids tag along with frequency. When my son turned about 6, I started having him ride his bike while I did an 8-10 mile run. We would be able to have conversations about stuff and I will even quiz him on math problems or vocabulary words to knock out some homework. Now that he is almost 9, he gets bored on his bike while I run but I get to spend good quality time with him at XC/Track practice 3 times per week while getting in 3-4 miles myself.
When my youngest was an infant to 2 years old, I would schedule long runs on the weekend around nap time and push him in the stroller. He got in a good nap and my wife was guaranteed a quiet house for 2 hours. I even took him on a 12-mile group run at 5:30 am one time and he slept the entire time. Now that he is 4, he looks huge in the stroller but I still take him on 5-8 mile runs with the iPad and snacks. My deal with him is that we will stop in the middle of the run to play at the playground/park for 20 minutes so it is a win-win for running miles and for father-son time.
Also, very cute about your daughter and the ice-packs. They will pick up on a lot and one of the most motivating things during a race is the kids coming out to cheer you on during the route. They see you perform in a big event and are very proud of you no matter how bad of a day you are having.