DK- First place and a trophy are awesome!! A 10K in July in Florida sounds like a character building race.  Probably not a PR race unless you get really lucky with the temps

My week went as planned.  Recovery is going along nicely and legs are starting to feel normal again.

Weekly for period: From: 04/17/2023 To 04/23/2023

Total distance: 54.67mi

20:39 in the 5k. I am pleased with the time since it was a PR and got 7th overall, still 4th in my AG though. I think I went out a little fast at the beginning to get out in front of the kids who wanted to be on the start line but are slow. I also beat all the elementary kids and the only kid to beat me was from our middle school team.

I think I should be able to get under 20 minutes in the 5k in 4-5 months.

Ok time for a catchup.

The big race and result from the weekend....no not the London marathon, Dorothea's 5k result  congratulations very fast and top female.

Andy you too very nice and I look forward to following the sub 20 journey.

DW I guess your unwanted shoes won't fit me 

Mikkey what a race. Hassan was unbelievable.  She did a Steve and cramped after 20kms but recoverd.  Steve i hope you can take inspiration from this 

Kiptums 2nd half was crazy fast. In the rain too. It makes sub 2 possible in the future.

George great job on the ultra running. And thanks for the vdot info.

Fishy wow 54 miles already, nice recovery.

Hash thanks I will try and be more creative with my run names. I'm mostly just running from home so it's either turn left or turn right 

I don't want to bore you all with my kayak fishing but it was a 3am start and 10pm finish so was pretty shattered. My mate drove us in his ute/truck with trailer down the east cape of NZ into some beautiful country.  My 25 year old son came but he hasn't kayak fished for about 10 years. Conditions were terrible with strong onshore winds and big surf and harbor fishing was recommended but we found a fairly sheltered bay and had a crack. My son got sea sick quickly and had to go in. We weren't getting any bites so packed up and went to another spot and went out but it was pretty gnarly and rough so came in and drove back to the harbour.

Much nicer in the harbor but fishing is usually quite tough due to the tidal currents. I caught 4 nice eating fish though which saved the day. No comp winners but one of my mates won the major spot prize of a $3000 kayak set up.

Any way back to running talk.....

DK - I'm VERY impressed with your time and winning the race. Cherish that trophy, even if on behalf of all of us who will never ever win a race.
I more or less implemented a system to try to get around the pressure, where in any non target races I'll dress as superman which ensures I'll be joking around with everybody all the way.
I wish I had Darkwave's way with words here, as I can't exactly describe this. I have a very competitive mind. The upside is that having professional success is easy, and usually what I set out to achieve, I do end up achieving, even if it's something silly like running every street in a city.
The downside is that somedays you're the hammer somedays you're the nail, and with running the fact is I'm middle of the pack at best and I just HATE losing. I think it's towards the marathon that I have more anxiety per se, due to having cramped up every time I tried it, even that one time in 2014 when I tried to easy run a marathon.
But now I have a plan in motion, I'm just focusing on getting stronger week after week after week until eventually cramping up due to lack of muscular endurance will be ruled out.
Another part of the plan is working on being patient. I actually just read an interview with Helen Obiri, this years Boston marathon champ and all around badass runner, and she said the one thing she had to work the most was patience. Cause she was used to competing in 5k and 10k and the marathon is a different kind of beast. I'll work with my coach some sort of strategy where I run tons of MP runs until MP becomes second nature.

Andy - nice job! Yes, I think running sub 20 is just a matter of time for you. Also, the 5K is THE race where you can go out too fast and still do relatively well.

Piwi - I'm fairly sure Hassan didn't have cramps. She had a hip flexor/upper quad issue and it was being painful.
The fact she was able to stretch it a bit and carry on running at race pace only confirms that it was pain, not cramps.
When you have cramps it's like the neural pathways go crazy. You can't command the affected muscles anymore since it's the neurons who transmit the commands from the brain.
Of course if you stop moving, the neurons calm down and you partially restore function, but if muscular fatigue is the cause, the tendency is that the next episodes will come sooner and sooner. There's research into using capsaicin and cinnamon (there's a product called hot shot) which could theoretically numb the neurons enough to continue. I'm considering taking this with me in my next marathon, my only concern is if it could aggravate my stomach since it's super spicy.

Keen awesome looking forward to your 5k. Your training is so consistent.

Flavio yes you are right I just saw the interview about why Hassan stopped.

I'm similar to you and extremely competitive so feel a failure when I'm slower than others.

Another good way to sandbag is be a pacer. So much fun.

I went under 21 for the first time today, crossing the finish line at 20:37 and carrying on for another .1 ish (ugh, so hard, I was done at 3.05) to get 3.11 and 20:55 on my watch. So I’m proud to say sub-21 with and without an asterix (and maybe I’ll get lucky and the course was certified after all). 

 

It is usually about the PR anyway, not the time. But for me for the 5k, though I also never thought I'd go sub-21, this PR thing hit harder than for most.  To put this into perspective: I started running semi-competitively at age 14, and it took me 9 years to break my high school 5k time and then another 7 years to break it again and get close to leaving the 21-minute realm. I wasn't training specifically for 5k PRs, but I was running that whole time. This time it took me only 7 months. 

 

Andy, great to read about the ways you build in time with your kids and about how your son did at his meet! Having aspirations to have kids one day and keep running, I look for all the affirmations that it’s possible, though it doesn’t always sound easy.  

DK - OK, so I need some clarification on your 5k PR. I got a little excited to see my time from yesterday was a little faster than someone else's PR on this thread but then read that your official chip time was 2 seconds faster than mine. Both of us went under 21 minutes but your 37 or 55 seconds are a critical factor in terms of talking crap. In all seriousness, great job getting sub-21 and I too had a long journey as my previous 5k PR was from way back in 2019. For me, the key was getting more consistent year-round regardless of whether I was putting in high mileage.

I would certainly like to average 40+ miles per week throughout the year but I know it isn't going to happen because of the kids but it is a happy sacrifice because being a dad is a more important hobby to me than running. This past ~8 months has meant more to me than any other point in my running career because of being able to participate/coach the XC/Track team. I went to lunch with my son today at his school for his b-day and I had to walk around the cafeteria saying hi to 30+ different kids, like I was a celebrity or something. After lunch my wife and I were standing in the hallway and I said hi to one of the girls. My wife heard her friend whisper, "who is that?" and she responded "oh, that's my running coach". I targeted the 5k yesterday specifically because I knew we would have at least 15 kids from our team running it. The course was up and back so I not only had the kids seeing me racing my best effort but even 5-6 parents said "great job coach!" as I passed them.

Andy you sound like a great dad and coach. I have 4 kids 17 to 25. None of them have any interest in my running although we did use to drag them along to events 10 years ago and have them participate in the kids events.

I feel like I'm better suited to 5k and 10k. For me to run sub 3 I have to be well under 1.24 half shape.

Part of it is overall mileage where I struggle over 60 mpw.

I just did a 6x800 workout. 2 weeks ago I averaged 3.52/km and today was 3.39/km.

Mikkey running by feel is excellent but yeah sometimes seeing that split can kick start you into more effort 

Mikkey - I think it means you're extremely tuned in to your body.  Race like Tarzan and train like Jane is much better than the other way round...

Dorothea - Brilliant result!  Congrats, that must feel so good.  Great integrity to push on to be 100% sure too.

I do lean towards shoes more than anxiety (although everyone here seems to disagree!).  I had an issue with fading and crashing in the half in 2019-20, despite putting together some really good training cycles.  I think a lot of that was anxiety, although I conquered it after training for marathons that kept getting cancelled, so I think the volume was a big factor.  But then, I was probably less anxious when I knew I had a huge base.  The cramp is so specific that it seems more mechanical.  This isn't to say I wouldn't have crashed later in the race because of anxiety or the remnants of the cold I had 2 weeks pre-race, but I never got the chance to find out.  I also had forgotten how sick I was - I'd all but given up on the race 2 weeks out.  It was the workout with 11 days to go that made me think I could still race.

Andy - Well done to you too - I agree with piwi it sounds like you've got a great balance to your priorities.

Dave - Good to hear some positive signs.