Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Steve - hope you recover quickly. Getting sick sucks, although I don’t think there’s any conspiracy involved. Flavio - have a good trip! How old are your parents? I’m also a long distance away, despite being in the same country—it’s a 6 hr flight, we’re in exact opposite corners of the continental US. So it’s been an infrequent visit. In 2019 we figured we should get a visit in, because who knows how long they have—particularly my dad, who was older and less healthy. Sure enough it ended up being the last time I saw him. What’s your running schedule going to be like? I usually still manage to get my runs in while traveling (my family is used to it), but workouts and LRs can be tougher logistically.
My week. I like HMs because there’s minimal recovery, compared to a full. But after racing one hard, there is certainly some. We talked about the quad-trashing from the downhill. It was awful for 2 days, but probably 50% on the 3rd day and 80%+ on the 4th. Suuuuper slow for those first few days too. I didn’t want to even think about speed this week, but did want to get in a steady-paced LR this weekend. These are usually in the 8:30-8:45 pace range. I was thinking 22 miles, and was cruising fairly comfortably around 8:45. But then—and this doesn’t happen often in a training run—I hit the wall. Mile 20 at 9:35, mile 21 at 10:10. Oof. Nothing quad-related, just pure fatigue. I felt no need to get that 1 extra mile. Hopefully things will be more or less back to normal next week. But my decision NOT to do another half before my marathon was solidified.
Dave
Flavio - yeah I'm the same... basically food is fuel. Mostly I could eat the same stuff every day and be perfectly happy lol.
Steve - bummer. I think we are still paying the price here for those extended lockdowns, plus last winter a lot of people were still working from home. There's heaps of bugs going around and at any given point at least 10% of my team at work seem to be sick. Hope you're feeling better soon.
Me - had a pretty good week tbh. Legs a bit sluggish on Tues and pretty rough weather Wednesday but other than that it was mostly very good winter running conditions. Another trail race coming up this Sunday, this time it's in a forest which should be fun - and hopefully not too muddy this time around.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Hot Weather Complainer
Steve - hope you recover quickly. Getting sick sucks, although I don’t think there’s any conspiracy involved.
Haha, what? Yes, I don't think anyone is working together to give me a cold, it's just bad luck. The amount of times I'm getting sick in the last year and a half suggests I'm more vulnerable than I used to be. Could be that I'm more run down from harder training. A few years ago I'd be pretty gutted to be sick 7 weeks out from an A goal race and 3 weeks out from a B goal race but now I feel like I have more money in the bank and losing a week of normal training won't hurt me.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Flavio- Those workouts look great. You seem to be in racing shape...anything on the horizon?
Dave- Nice LR. That was a Big workout to try so close after a race. Even at LR pace it is still 22 miles
Mark- Solid, consistent and FAST....nothing more to say about that
I had 2 workouts this week a 5 x 1K on Wednesday and a 10K @ HMP today. HMP has been very tough for me to dial in this summer. I can manage for a mile or two but can't string together a solid string so I signed up for a 10K with the goal of running it at HMP. Worked out as planned. Forgot to stop the watch for a bit at the end but that's nothing new.
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
My Week
Dropping my week real quick for now. Busy weekend, my sister got married. Had to do lots of driving and other stuff. Will probably do a Monday long run hopefully. Will circle back for comments on other people's weeks and what not later.
Mother of Cats
Merkle: Congratulations to your sister!
Marky_Mark- I am like you - food is fuel. Related: I am an awful cook.
Fishy: I think it can be hard to sustain HMP in the summer because of the weather (Obvious statement is obvious). Or are you talking about difficulty finding HMP?
Dave - I find it takes me about 10 days to fully recover from a half-marathon.
Flavio - could the intestinal sensitivity simply be age? Safe travels to Brazil.
Steve - I am sorry that you are sick. Again.
***
My week:
61 miles running,1500 yards swimming, and 3:30 hours pool-running.M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yogaT: 10 miles, including a track workout of 2x800, 1600, 2x800, 2x400 in 3:30, 3:29, 7:00, 3:22, 3:21, 1:37, 1:38 - recoveries of 2:4x-2:5x after the 800s, 6:01 after the 1600, and 88 seconds between the 400s. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.W: 11 miles very easy (9:38), including some grass running, drills, and four downhill strides. Upper body weights/core in afternoon.Th: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.F: 17 miles, including 2x5 miles at marathon effort in 37:47 (7:33 pace) and 37:41 (7:32 pace) with 1 mile in 9:00 between the two. Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards streaming yoga.Sa: 9 miles very easy on trails (11:12) plus drills/strides. Followed with upperbody weights/core and 30 minutes pool-running.Su: 14 miles, including some 100s, 200s, and 400s with full recovery. Fastest 200s were 46 seconds. Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.
Workout notes:Tuesday: frustrating track workout where I was essentially stuck at my tempo pace for intervals. In retrospect, it was simply because the track workout was too close to Sunday's 16 miler, which was followed by some heavy squatting. So I'll file that workout under "it's the effort that counts."Friday: I moved my marathon effort workout up to Friday to take advantage of better weather. I had planned on doing the 4-3-2-1 workout (4, 3, 2, and 1 miles at marathon effort with 1 mile between), but I hit a good rhythm during the first 4 and decided on the fly to swap to 2x5 miles at marathon effort. The marathon effort miles all felt good and controlled and like I could have continued on (which is the ideal when doing a marathon effort workout, IMHO) so I felt pretty good about it.Sunday: Since I did my long run on Friday and my next hard workout isn't until Tuesday morning, I used Sunday morning to run a whole bunch of 100s, 200s, and even a few 400s, wearing different shoes and playing with different mental cues to see what worked and didn't in terms of running my fastest for a given effort. The winners were: the Takumi Sen 8 and envisioning a rope tied around my pelvis pulling me forward while my legs extend behind me.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Not an 80%er
Dave - They're 71 and 72, both have multiple diseases which are not immediately life threatening but that are causing more and more trouble over the years (diabetes, hipertension, cholesterol etc).My running schedule is gonna be exactly the same, why, do you need to change anything?I can see you're quite the optimistic trying to run a 22 miler a week after a half race 😂
Mark - Heretic 😂 Your life must be much easier, you can just carry a bag of dog chow and chomp at it from time to time.I believe I have never ever eaten the same food two days in a row.
Fishy - My upcoming races are in my signature Now I understand why that 10k course was long haha.
Merkle - Congratulations to your sister!
DW - I see that as part deterioration over time and part me being a glutton in my early 20s.2x5 miles is an excellent workout, kudos!
me - We're preparing for the hectic day that will be tomorrow.
Our first flight is 5:10am from Porto to Lisbon. That means being at 3am in the airport.
Then an 11 hour flight from Lisbon to Porto Alegre from 10am to 5pm there (9 PM Portugal time)
Obviously I've rearranged the running and strength training so that we won't miss any training session, and so I'm doubling today.
Fun story time: Last year I decided to ship my used Garmin 645 to my brother in Brazil. I've used DHL cause they clear customs for you.
The Brazilian customs charged my brother roughly USD 300 in import taxes.
And that's why I say things are so cheap in the US.
PS: This is also why I declined Darkwave's kind offer to ship me a pair of running shoes back in 2021 when I was there.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials)
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Flavio- Thanks! should have looked in your sig. line....I go there every week to get the strava link
Dwave I was hoping it was harder to sustain for the exact reason you described but it has been a long time since I've tried to train through the summer so I wasn't 100% sure. I know where my HMP should be (@6:30) and where I want it to be (@6:20) so I was glad to be able to sustain the "should be" pace for 6 miles. Now I just need to get to the "want it to be" pace.
Cobra Commander Keen
Steve - To quote some nameless extra in Pirates of the Caribbean "My sympathies, friend. You've no manner of luck at all."
Flavio - I PM'd you the name of my coach. The VDot app has been largely great so far - I do wish it had an option for "recovery runs" as an assigned effort level and that the calculator was built in so I could make quicker adjustments to paces due to weather, but at least I'm not having to recreate each workout in Garmin any longer. My wife does appreciate Bordeaux wines. I probably fall in the middle of the eat to live/live to eat. I do appreciate good food, but I'm primarily trying to fuel myself. My wife resents this thought, but I do hate trying to put down 3,500-4,000 kcal/day. Excellent week.
Andy - You could absolutely order some bulk electrolytes and cook up your own supplement without any other additives at all. My issue with most electrolyte supplements is that they typically have what amounts to trivial amounts of electrolytes in them - in most cases less than what an average sedentary person needs, let alone an endurance athlete who may be training in the heat.
Mark - Good week. Enjoy that race in the woods!
Fishy - Excellent week and workouts. It's oddly interesting to me that we're so close to each other in paces. Our "want to be" paces should get there once the weather improves.
Merkle - Congrats to your sister.
DWave - Nice week there, and interesting shoes + visualization exercise.
Another big week, with easily my highest elevation gain per mile run of all time - all of it up and down a ~320m hill. The area around my parents' place (visiting for the weekend) has much better hills than what I have locally, though I think I found an even better one to use the next time I'm out there. I also got in a very solid strength workout right after this by loading hay bales for my dad.
DD1 has her first football/soccer tournament of the season this weekend, complete with an insanely early 7:30am game (be there at 7, leave the house at 6:30). Typically local teams play their first games of a tournament on the Friday afternoon before, but I'm not sure why that went out the door here. So I'll either end up doing my LR ridiculously early Saturday or moving it to Sunday (most likely), which will lead to a pretty massive 7 day rolling week by the time my LR the next Saturday comes around. Eh, it is what it is.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Problem Child
steve have you taken CommanderKeen's lead of "get sick the week of a race after great training to heart? I mean...eventually it worked out for him but I hope you get well soon. I'm kind of getting over being sick, and I took a week off, sort of due to, being sick. I also wanted a break and lacked motivation.
cal what's up with this arm thing?
DavePNW I think you just suffered from Runners High detoxing. The HM PR just makes the highs so high and the body has to put the mind in check. "we're done here. You need to be nice to us." Kudos on the 21 miler the week after a race. I doubt even Marathon Scott would make such a _______ decision.
Andy I have read people worry so much about salts during races/runs they forget to drink water. Load the blood up with salts and you've just thickened the blood, and made it harder to pump. Don't forget to drink water and stay hydrated.
Flavio are you going to get any new streets in Brazil?
Marky_Mark how is the new child? Enjoy the trail run. Not everything has to be a race.
darkwave was was the summary of the shoe swap for 100-400m runs? I do all my stuff in 1 pair of shoes (Nike Pegasus) unless it's marathon specific where I want to try out my fancy schmancy super duper double dee ooper race shoes.
Fishy your training on Strava is nonsense. fat me doesn't like seeing it. I might have to hit the mute button because I'm a millennial and we can't handle seeing others succeed very well because it's so hard for us....oh wait that's zoomers. Have you picked a race yet????
Electrolyte drink mix I've done Skratch. Not really salty. Tahoe Rim Trail provides THIS. I might try it for a stupid life choice I think I want to make next year. The downside is I don't know where to find it locally, so online orders...I'm getting a little annoyed with ordering everything online. "sorry we don't have that but I can order it to the store for you" seems like there is no point of having retail stores. Just tear down the mall and build an apartment complex....rant over.
I actually put in some effort to get some runs in. I even tried a speed workout with no ACTUAL starting point. Just 8x400m at "5K" pace based off a book, and where I actually think I could be. It's about 3:15 marathon pace which ironically seems to be my happy place for starting marathon training every single time. I'm TRYING to get motivated to maybe do CIM. I don't know why my brain just won't get into it. It's as if I've fallen off being excited about putting in hard work. The runs were consistent (88-90 seconds) with a full recovery and I pulled the plug when the stomach was starting to get mad, and the heart rate was pegging 175-180. The legs actually felt sort (DOMS) and I blamed having a week off with a 10 mile run, then jumping to speed workout. This kind of felt like I was doing it wrong, but it's all I really know. Full recovery to be able to run fast with proper form. I GUESS "the point" of the workout was VO2 max anaerobic power/speed/economy of running work because according to "the Bible" it's under Interval Repetition training (so it WAS speed work) and actually says to do 8x400 with 400m jog for a slouch doing 40-50 mile weeks.
Sunday's run was kind of "bullshit" because the group I went with was slow (not a problem) but didn't really know where they were going, and thought this was a "trail run" when it's more "dirt road" than anything. At least they were cool with me being about 20 minutes later.
Thursday and Friday I didn't feel liek running. I was actually falling asleep at my desk on Friday, and then I had all kinds of energy around 3m which I converted to "jeep things" like "melting metal with electricity" aka welding.
Strava said I did 49.49 miles this week. I kind of giggled at hitting this unintentionally, and I was also kind of proud for hitting it with 2 days off. Not the best way to get a 50 mile week but I'll take it.
Statue units? Since when did we start counting distance by "Green Woman holding Torch"? I really need to check in more often.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
My advice to your sister would be:
1. don't run marathons.
2. don't get married.
C. don't have kids.
lastly: don't take advice from strangers on the internet.
I've done all of these things multiple times. Learn from my mistakes.
Mmmm Bop
Just keep smiling until I drop you going up Verrazano Bridge on my way to posting a 2:52 next year...
This made me laugh. A high mileage 40yo “competitive jerk” will be shooting for a 2:52 at NYC next year.
61.2 miles for me this week mostly easy.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
This made me laugh. A high mileage 40yo “competitive jerk” will be shooting for a 2:52 at NYC next year. 61.2 miles for me this week mostly easy.
He isn’t even qualified yet. Might take him three more marathons to get in.
Brutal!
RP- I'm trying to follow our fearless leader to the promised land but my old man legs think 70 is the right mileage for now. In the fall I'll throw back in some doubles to mix it up.
Keen You're paces are in the middle of hundred mile weeks I could only hope to get comparable. I do hope you're right about the "want to be" paces coming around in the cooler weather and after some tapering.