Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 244 times)

Marky_Mark_17


    Honestly I have no idea but it looks like it’d be fun to try

     

    Would 100-200m sprints using one of these running parachutes be beneficial to distance runners? I bought one of these for my son for baseball to build explosiveness for running the bases and chasing flyballs in the outfield. Other than playing around with it in the backyard, I have yet to do any serious sprints with it since it would be a bit embarrassing running the neighborhood.

    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    * Net downhill course

    Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

    Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

    JMac11


    RIP Milkman

      It's an interesting discussion. I still feel like 200s at such a fast pace, when you look at the pyramid of things that matter in a marathon, must be absolutely dead last. That's sort of where I was going: in a capacity as amateur runners, some of us injury prone or not getting our numbers we want, does doing 200s at something like 800 meter pace make sense in an overall training program?

       

      Put another way, even if you want to maintain top-end speed for shorter distance events like 5Ks and 10Ks, isn't running your strides/shorter rep work at a slightly slower pace going to get you 95% of the way there with 50% lower injury risk? Or maybe Mark as you put it, doing the vast majority of the work at something slower, but then just the last rep or two at faster just to kick it up? I probably would avoid that due to my injury risk, but that seems reasonable to me vs. a workout dedicated to 200s at 800 pace when you are training for 5K+

       

      Merkle - just to be clear, not criticizing you, just something I'm now grappling with myself as I'm doing my first 5K/10K block in years.

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

       

      Marky_Mark_17


        It's an interesting discussion. I still feel like 200s at such a fast pace, when you look at the pyramid of things that matter in a marathon, must be absolutely dead last. That's sort of where I was going: in a capacity as amateur runners, some of us injury prone or not getting our numbers we want, does doing 200s at something like 800 meter pace make sense in an overall training program?

         

        Put another way, even if you want to maintain top-end speed for shorter distance events like 5Ks and 10Ks, isn't running your strides/shorter rep work at a slightly slower pace going to get you 95% of the way there with 50% lower injury risk? Or maybe Mark as you put it, doing the vast majority of the work at something slower, but then just the last rep or two at faster just to kick it up? I probably would avoid that due to my injury risk, but that seems reasonable to me vs. a workout dedicated to 200s at 800 pace when you are training for 5K+

         

        Merkle - just to be clear, not criticizing you, just something I'm now grappling with myself as I'm doing my first 5K/10K block in years.

         

        I recall reading something about a leading sports physiologist introducing a concept of "speed reserve" and demonstrating that top end speed was actually helpful to work even though you don't ever hit it in a marathon.

         

        I don't think it's top of the list as you suggest but if the above is correct then it still helps.  There's a trade-off for sure, which is why I work up to something like max effort on the last repeat or two.  Running 8 x 200s all out would be fairly brutal tbh.

        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

        * Net downhill course

        Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

        Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

        mmerkle


           

          I recall reading something about a leading sports physiologist introducing a concept of "speed reserve" and demonstrating that top end speed was actually helpful to work even though you don't ever hit it in a marathon.

           

          I don't think it's top of the list as you suggest but if the above is correct then it still helps.  There's a trade-off for sure, which is why I work up to something like max effort on the last repeat or two.  Running 8 x 200s all out would be fairly brutal tbh.

           

          I haven't heard this but that's interesting. Do you remember if the idea is simply marathon pace feeling relatively slow, or is it deeper than that? I know in general speed and strength are supposed to improve economy, and economy is very important obviously. This could be a fun topic to look in to.

           

          Also this wasn't an all out 8 X 200, well certainly wasn't meant to be. As I was saying 35s working down to 32s isn't a big issue when I'm training for 5k-10ks. Perhaps this one was a bit fast which is why I burned out on the last one and only did 8 instead of 10.

           

          I'm cool with a little criticism anyway JMac. Tis the nature of this thread and I would rather learn and get better. Honestly that was also partly a confidence booster or whatever. Lately I've been disappointed with my running and have been feeling uninspired. Usually the people on Strava who are faster than I am motivate me, but lately I've been feeling defeated and I just wanted to run fast.

          Marky_Mark_17


             

            I haven't heard this but that's interesting. Do you remember if the idea is simply marathon pace feeling relatively slow, or is it deeper than that? I know in general speed and strength are supposed to improve economy, and economy is very important obviously. This could be a fun topic to look in to.

             

            Also this wasn't an all out 8 X 200, well certainly wasn't meant to be. As I was saying 35s working down to 32s isn't a big issue when I'm training for 5k-10ks. Perhaps this one was a bit fast which is why I burned out on the last one and only did 8 instead of 10.

             

            I'm cool with a little criticism anyway JMac. Tis the nature of this thread and I would rather learn and get better. Honestly that was also partly a confidence booster or whatever. Lately I've been disappointed with my running and have been feeling uninspired. Usually the people on Strava who are faster than I am motivate me, but lately I've been feeling defeated and I just wanted to run fast.

             

            Honestly can't recall sorry. I do know running economy was a factor though.

             

            And yeah... hitting a full sprint is really fun. So much of what we do in training is just general plodding along and that feeling when you get really up on your toes is so good.  And most of us are doing this for fun, after all!

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

            Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            Fishyone


               

              Honestly can't recall sorry. I do know running economy was a factor though.

               

              And yeah... hitting a full sprint is really fun. So much of what we do in training is just general plodding along and that feeling when you get really up on your toes is so good.  And most of us are doing this for fun, after all!

              Mark- One of the reasons I love short, steep hill sprints....Only time I get to feel like a "real runner" actually up on the toes!  To bad I don't do them nearly as often as I should.  I have a great hill near work maybe I'll sub them in for my strides every other week or so.  Do you think the injury risk/recovery would be higher on these? My hill is a 7-8% 30 second ball of pain

               

              Maybe I could use the parachute for the recovery jog down....

              5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

              mmerkle


                Mark- One of the reasons I love short, steep hill sprints....Only time I get to feel like a "real runner" actually up on the toes!  To bad I don't do them nearly as often as I should.  I have a great hill near work maybe I'll sub them in for my strides every other week or so.  Do you think the injury risk/recovery would be higher on these? My hill is a 7-8% 30 second ball of pain

                 

                Maybe I could use the parachute for the recovery jog down....

                 

                Going down this hill sounds much more risky for injury than going up. I highly recommend the parachute.

                SteveChCh


                Hot Weather Complainer

                  DW - I enjoyed so many things about your race report. The commentary on transportation (Chipotle was the right choice), porta-pottie discussion, and then the race. I agree this race was better for you. I understand the dread with personal worst, but I think for you, the clock has reset. Frankly any time you run better than the last year is now your bogey. Forget your old times. I know you're positive about everything, but this is more of a point around even viewing this in the context of a PW. Don't do it.

                   

                  This x 1000.  What you've achieved despite dealing with way way more than a "normal" runner has to is incredible.  You were already in an elite group of humans to have run a marathon but the percentage who would do it after the last couple of years you've had is logarithmically smaller again.

                   

                  I've had my eye surgery and all went pretty well - it was the right call to keep my run easy yesterday though.  Still some soreness but probably no worse than a normal day with contact lenses, and will continue to improve as they heal.  And I can see way better!  It's a great day for New Zealand all round too...

                  5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                  *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                  Upcoming Races:

                  Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                  flavio1980


                  Intl. correspondent

                    It's an interesting discussion. I still feel like 200s at such a fast pace, when you look at the pyramid of things that matter in a marathon, must be absolutely dead last. That's sort of where I was going: in a capacity as amateur runners, some of us injury prone or not getting our numbers we want, does doing 200s at something like 800 meter pace make sense in an overall training program?

                    Put another way, even if you want to maintain top-end speed for shorter distance events like 5Ks and 10Ks, isn't running your strides/shorter rep work at a slightly slower pace going to get you 95% of the way there with 50% lower injury risk? Or maybe Mark as you put it, doing the vast majority of the work at something slower, but then just the last rep or two at faster just to kick it up? I probably would avoid that due to my injury risk, but that seems reasonable to me vs. a workout dedicated to 200s at 800 pace when you are training for 5K+

                     

                    There are a few things here.

                    First, it seems not even Mike knows what his current objectives are apart from a 10 miler race. If he were targeting shorter races in the near term, faster running would certainly make sense.

                    Then, there are some running coaches who advocate "working all energy systems year around", one such example being CJ Albertson and I'm fairly certain he didn't make that up himself, so there are surely others before him. Meaning it's good to always have a bit of each sprint, strides, vo2max, tempos, M efforts regardless of what you're training for.

                    Third, not all humans are created equal, there are people who are at higher risk of injury running a 2 hour long run than a sequence of sprints that will amount to a total of 3km of work.

                    Come to think about it, I reckon said "risk of injury when running fast" might just be there if the person is not running fast often, then when they try something different they might do too much too soon, but on the other hand  if you're always running some short sprints at the end of a couple of runs each month, then you're always in touch with your speed and the risk of injury is lower.

                     

                    Steve - It's awesome that you can see much better now. Just make sure your significant other does not have the same surgery 😂

                    PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                    Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

                    Tool to generate Strava weekly

                    CommanderKeen


                    Cobra Commander Keen

                      Steve - I'm glad the surgery went well. I had lasik maybe 12 years ago and it was life-changing - I hope you have the same result.

                       

                      JMac - I had also forgotten that DD2 had running club before school that morning and did get some amusement out of her running a double.


                      Sprints for marathoners - Aside from improved running economy, I could see this being beneficial within the final couple kms of a race. Right when all your slow-twitch are getting nearer the point of failure and recruiting mostly unused (fast twitch) muscle fibers is helpful, even if it's not the primary purpose of those fibers.

                      5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                       

                      Upcoming Races:

                       

                      Heartland 50 - May 6

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        Flavio - Call the fire brigade!

                         

                        Keen - Yep, it's amazing already although I'm really looking forward to not having issues with grittiness or bright lights over the next few weeks.  It's great for getting going in the morning too, sometimes it took many attempts to get my contacts in comfortably.

                        5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                        *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                        Upcoming Races:

                        Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          Mark- One of the reasons I love short, steep hill sprints....Only time I get to feel like a "real runner" actually up on the toes!  To bad I don't do them nearly as often as I should.  I have a great hill near work maybe I'll sub them in for my strides every other week or so.  Do you think the injury risk/recovery would be higher on these? My hill is a 7-8% 30 second ball of pain

                           

                          Maybe I could use the parachute for the recovery jog down....

                           

                          Honestly I think a hill sprint is less likely to cause injury simply because you're not hitting quite as high a speed as you would on the flat.  7-8% is certainly gonna bring some suffering though.

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

                          Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          flavio1980


                          Intl. correspondent

                            Steve - Ugh, I'm also facing eye grittiness and soreness for the past year or so, it's so annoying especially when you're a software developer. It gets really bad in the evenings sometimes.
                            The doc told me it's a combination of eye dryness (gave me an eye drop for that) and allergies (also gave me an anti allergic eye drop).
                            He also told me I should wear glasses whenever I'm outside.
                            I should probably follow that, seeing as sun glasses are mandatory for me as I have severe photophobia. That reminds me I should remember to take my eye mask the next time I go to the dentist, sigh...


                            Mark/Lord Commander/Other gadget aficionados - Do you have any recommendation for great wrap-around, photochromic sunglasses that are good enough for running (that is, they can handle sweat and bounce)?

                            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                            Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

                            Tool to generate Strava weekly


                            Glute Force

                              Oi Flavio: I listen to a lot of podcasts around running - and I have heard a lot of people referring to the goodr glasses. Cheap and good.

                               

                              But I am just trying you to influence you so I can get a credible product review. So hope this works out!

                               

                              PS: its January that's winter in Europe man why do you need shades???

                              flavio1980


                              Intl. correspondent

                                 PS: its January that's winter in Europe man why do you need shades???

                                 

                                Thanks mate, I was also looking at this "Rudy Project Tralyx", those look awesome.

                                I need it to protect my eyes, apparently these old eyes can't handle dust and pollution particles anymore.

                                But I need it to be photo-chromatic so I can also use it when it's dark (the lens become clear when there's no sunlight).

                                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                                Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

                                Tool to generate Strava weekly