Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Mother of Cats
I am in shock that they cancelled the TC 10 miler.
I can see cancelling the marathon (though I'm not sure I agree with that decision). But I have run several 10 mile and half-marathons in weather worse than what I'm seeing for Minneapolis this morning, and while they weren't spectacular performances, I didn't consider the weather even borderline dangerous for that distance.
Flavio - tons of respect for both a great performance and the fact that you took a shot at it. I think you have a lot to be proud of today.
Merkle - you asked about my 10 days for recovery from a half...that's not an absolute rule of thumb, just my own experience.
Government shutdown. So early this past week I got the news that I was non-essential and would be furloughed in the event of a shutdown. In many ways, being furloughed is preferable to being essential - that's because both groups of employees do not get paid for the duration of the shutdown, and both groups get back pay covering all the missed paychecks once the government is working again. The difference is simply whether you are legally required to work or legally prohibited from working.
[the everybody gets paid in the end thing is fairer than it looks at first, because furloughed employees are not allowed to take on other temporary jobs to make money during the furlough. Furloughed employees are also not allowed to volunteer to work their government job during the furlough - which really stinks if you know you have deadlines coming up that are not being paused as a result of the shutdown]
So this past week was a crazy week as I scrambled to get everything in order in case I was out for several weeks. And then we ended with an agreement on Saturday night that will keep stuff running until mid-November.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Great job Mark, Flavio and dk keeping the momentum of the thread going. Flavio sorry to hear about your back. Hope that gets better quick. I'd say that half is a great sign for your upcoming full.
dw That sounds like a pain. Hopefully all is well. How do you feel approaching Chicago?
My Week
I suspect my tempo pace is now slightly faster. Those mile reps around 5:55 felt solid. I'm still uncertain about JFK, however, I decided that instead of birthday miles, I am going to jump into the River's Edge Endurance Challenge. I'm picking the 6 hour option. So however many 5 mile loops I can complete in that time. Hopefully at least 6. I'm nervous about roots and rocks on the trail portion, because today's trail LR was brutal, as implied by the title.
dk/Commander Can I do a little brain picking since you two have experience in this area? My main concern is fueling. How does that.... work?
I am in shock that they cancelled the TC 10 miler. I can see cancelling the marathon (though I'm not sure I agree with that decision). But I have run several 10 mile and half-marathons in weather worse than what I'm seeing for Minneapolis this morning, and while they weren't spectacular performances, I didn't consider the weather even borderline dangerous for that distance.
Yeah that makes less sense. Especially since it started at 7:00. It was 70F then, but even for a slow runner finishing in 2 hours, it was still in the low 70s at 9:00. But the marathon started at 8:00(!), so would really warm up for slower runners (or anyone).
7:00 - 70F
8:00 - 69
9:00 - 72
10:00 - 7511:00 - 80
12:00 - 83
1:00 - 86
2:00 - 89
Yesterday they were forecasting high of 84, it ended up hitting 91, an all time record for October.
For some reason they felt the need to make an “all or nothing” decision, IDK whether related to insurance or something else. Not sure if there was also a consideration that thousands of marathoners might have decided to just show up at the 10 Mile start, making a huge mess of everything. 🤷♂️
Dave
Are we there, yet?
Flavio: Reread your race report. Couldn't pass up a fun play on words: you were red lining on the blue line. Glad you didn't turn purple. Would love to see your splits if you have them, miles or kilometers. Always a good check on how we feel compared to actual data. Any time you're that close to a PB under less than ideal conditions, is a big win in my opinion.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Dorothea
Nice week, mmerkle. That long trail run is awesome. Like darkwave suggested on Strava, you may want to get a pair of trail shoes if you're doing more of that kind of running and that kind of race. They help make the rocks and roots underfoot hurt less by the end, and help a bit with not slipping and agility as well. I will say, though, that you do want to train a lot in them beforehand, and for the race you'd want to have a pair of your normal trainers on hand, just in case the trail shoes all a sudden just aren't working for you. As for fueling, it's really just a matter of figuring out what works for you, which means practice fueling with solid foods during your long runs. I think I remember krash writing that he can go off just gels for a 50-miler... but for many folks, that's too much simple sugar for the GI tract. RP and wcrunner may also want to chime in here.. and you may want to join the Ultra Runners user group, because they'll also have a lot more suggestions (I'm still a newbie to the ultra scene, and they were/are very helpful!). But cool to see you're considering this! A loop race for the first time is not a bad idea, since then you don't have to worry too much about figuring out how to pack for the trail and the drop bags.
darkwave, I didn't know they also cancelled the 10-miler! But I guess if they're trying to offer an alternate date, they needed to concede the day as a whole. Also glad to read that things ended up okay for you, even if that's super stressful trying to get enough done in a few days to cover all the stuff you'd be missing over multiple weeks. Does this mean you can take it a little easier this week, though?
Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.
Last race: April 28, Glass City Marathon, 3:29:53. Saw deer; cried; didn't melt in rain or heat.
MickJogger, you'd probably want to write "Ich bin Berliner," unless you're claiming to be a jelly-filled donut.
I think both Flavio and myself were making reference to the famous Kennedy quote. I doubt John F. was referencing the Berliner Krapfen, but I might be wrong
Great race report, amazing how I feel like I can't walk for a week after a marathon - and then there are super humans like yourself that go for another 10 miles and feel absolutely great afterwards.
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
I think both Flavio and myself were making reference to the famous Kennedy quote. I doubt John F. was referencing the Berliner Krapfen, but I might be wrong Great race report, amazing how I feel like I can't walk for a week after a marathon - and then there are super humans like yourself that go for another 10 miles and feel absolutely great afterwards.
Thanks! I wouldn't call myself super human, ha ha. It helps that it's a slower pace. And I don't know how great I'm feeling today :-) But it's definitely better than the other times I ran the distance or more.
And of course, I know that's what Kennedy said, and that's been the joke since 1963. ;-) It's a fine moment in history, though.
I suspect my tempo pace is now slightly faster. Those mile reps around 5:55 felt solid. I'm still uncertain about JFK, however, I decided that instead of birthday miles, I am going to jump into the River's Edge Endurance Challenge. I'm picking the 6 hour option. So however many 5 mile loops I can complete in that time. Hopefully at least 6. I'm nervous about roots and rocks on the trail portion, because today's trail LR was brutal, as implied by the title. dk/Commander Can I do a little brain picking since you two have experience in this area? My main concern is fueling. How does that.... work?
Fueling is very much a personal issue and best determined by trial and error. I try to stay away from high sugar content foods and focus on those with a combination of complex carbs and protein to avoid a sugar rush and crash. My favorites are PBJ, grilled cheese, wraps, and quesadillas.
On trails it's mostly remembering to pick up your feet. It's often not the big rocks and roots that catch you, but the little ones that you tend to ignore or don't notice. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I tripped and fell 3 times in the first 2 miles of my first 50K trail race.
Apparently that’s a misconception, and the joke only developed later in America, as something of an urban legend. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner
While the phrase "Ich bin ein Berliner" can be understood as having a double meaning, it is neither wrong to use it the way Kennedy did nor was it embarrassing. According to some grammar texts, the indefinite article can be omitted in German when speaking of an individual's profession or origin but is in any case used when speaking in a figurative sense. Furthermore, although the word "Berliner" has traditionally been used for a doughnut filled with fruit jam or jelly in the north, west, and southwest of Germany, it has never been used in Berlin itself or the surrounding region, where the usual word is "Pfannkuchen" (literally "pancake"). Therefore, no Berliner would mistake Berliner for a doughnut.
Cobra Commander Keen
Steve - I like your new coach's train of thought.
Flavio - It seems you have your dietary stuff pretty well locked in. Congrats again on that race, even though you didn't take down your PR. The fitness to go well beyond that is certainly there, though, so hopefully you get another crack at it in better conditions.
Mark - Impressive results for both you and Miss 6.
DKT - Congratulations on your race as well. I had no idea you were born in the USSR, neat.
DWave - It's good to know that our governmental disfunctions (shouldn't) interfere with your race.
Merkle - Nice week. For the 6 hour I'd treat nutrition the same as I would for a marathon - you'll just need more of it for the longer duration. That could be a lot of simple sugar, though, so perhaps working in some fruit or "real food" like a quesadilla or PB&J might be worth a try on a training run.
I'm guessing there will be just a single aid station at the start/finish, and if you choose not to use whatever they provide you'll need your own little aid station to help with this. This could be as simple as a bag or cooler placed next to a tree or something near the start/finish that you can draw from as the race goes on. If someone will crew you for this it will make it a bit easier, but it's far from necessary.
Twin Cities cancellations - This seems sketchy to me. The conditions weren't cancel-worthy at all (though very far from PR-worthy), especially considering that we're at the tail end of summer and everyone is used to those conditions or worse. If those conditions had popped up for a late spring race then that would make more sense. Over/under on there being some other reason for cancellation and the organizers used weather as a cover?
My final big week is out of the way and I can start tapering! 10 straight weeks at 100+ miles is more than I thought I'd ever do (especially as most had 2 or 3 workouts), but I oddly don't have that classic "worn down from marathon training" feel. The forecast is looking oddly good for the half this weekend, though I'm trying my best to ignore the extended forecast for the 100 that shows a bit of a warming trend from this weekend to the middle of next week.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
DKT- Yes, I'm heading down Saturday afternoon returning Monday. Looking forward to meeting another one of my "imaginary internet friends." Planning on hitting the expo in the late afternoon before dinner. I'll shoot you a message as we get closer and my travel plans firm up.
I followed your advice and signed up for the half on 10/14. Commander, you can add Baystate half on 10/14. Gonna shoot for sub 1:25.
Fishy, solid training. Also, are we still meeting up in Philly? I'll be there Fri-Sun. :-) My vote is for the 10/14 race. It's enough time to be a proper tune-up without being a trail, which would come with its own challenges and dangers.
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Mmmm Bop
Flavio - Very impressive as a 1:22 half 9 weeks before the full is an amazing place to be! You’ll obviously make more fitness gains in the next 2 month so it’s really a case now of how much under 3 hours you go. Yes 180Ibs is on the heavier side for marathons, but you’re probably the strongest poster on this thread! 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Problem Child
GI decided that instead of birthday miles, I am going to jump into the River's Edge Endurance Challenge. I'm picking the 6 hour option. So however many 5 mile loops I can complete in that time. Hopefully at least 6. I'm nervous about roots and rocks on the trail portion, because today's trail LR was brutal, as implied by the title.
Practice on it if possible. It's totally acceptable to be concerned about eating shit multiple times while running trails. You don't get good at it by not doing it. Have confidence in where you're putting your foot. Confidence your foot will land firm. Confidence the tree roots won't move. Confidence you won't slip. Obviously look where you're going.
I've tripped on rocks because I became tired. Later in the race you might be tired and maybe catch your toes on some roots you didn't catch the first four laps. If you have some photos of the trail put them on Strava. Hurt 100 is pretty "rooty" as far as trails go. Almost seems impossible to run on. My lunch run trails have some off cambers and some loose rock sections. It was only after a few seasons of running them I actually started to believe the rocks wouldn't move. Multiple laps means you'll have a few times to pick the line you want just to have it fucked up by lapped traffic being in the way.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Flavio think of yourself as another Nick Bare he's over 190lbs and gunning for sub 2.45.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Flavio seems to have a good and positive coach as I think 2:50-2:58 range is correct at this stage.
Nearer the time about 2 weeks out I’ll let Flavio know what I expect of him and give a prediction time which I hope will be accurate.