Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Problem Child
Non-binary category seems to be your ticket...
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Well the main reason is that it's dishonest. If he wants to run badly enough to cheat their system, there are plenty of ways, He could just register as female, or use a higher age, or have someone faster run with his bib.
I could also just go find Marathon Scott.
Intl. correspondent
As far as I understand those methods you listed are against the rules.
Self identifying as non binary is within the rules of the game.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
The rules create the incentives, and since there can be absolutely no punishment for falsely declaring oneself as non binary, people will surely use it.
Mikkey - You're just jealous cause you know I'm gonna earn my Moose Mug® in the non binary category in Valencia when I run a sub 3h03 marathon 😎
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
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Dorothea
As far as I understand those methods you listed are against the rules. Self identifying as non binary is within the rules of the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game The rules create the incentives, and since there can be absolutely no punishment for falsely declaring oneself as non binary, people will surely use it.
So you would falsely claim to be non-binary to place in the non-binary category against the other 20 people who identify as non-binary? Yeah, that's something to be real proud of, right there. If anything, the system encourages non-binary folks to sign up as man or woman to actually participate in a competition. Are these races offering cash prizes for the winners of each gender category? Only then would I see why someone would falsely identify. Also, do you really want to be put down in prosperity as having won as non-binary? What will all the people who know you think? This conversation is stupid.
[edited to add:] Damnit. I fell for it. Obviously you're just willfully ignoring the validity of a non-binary identification, and I should have just ditto'd Dave who more wisely acknowledged no minds were going to be changed here. So that's all I'll have to say about that.
Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.
Last race: April 28, Glass City Marathon, 3:29:53. Saw deer; cried; didn't melt in rain or heat.
Are we there, yet?
None of us are non-binary. We're all just a bunch of 0's and 1's in a matrix.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
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Flavio is selling his Superman outfit on eBay if anyone’s interested?
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
My post was not clear. I was not defending that behavior.
I also find it immoral and lame. But it's not illegal, so technically not cheating.
And people will abuse it especially if there are financial/social media incentives involved/.
And that the root cause of the issue, is, IMHO, in the rules. Those who think about the rules need to consider the incentives that they generate.
I'm talking about this all from a generic rule setting context.
Honestly though, I'm assuming whoever set the rules didn't think there'd be many people exploiting it.
We'll see.
WCRunner - We're all bits of dust going around in the universe!
Mikkey - interested? I sort of had to retire that vest after my shameful presentation at the EcoTrail Porto earlier this year.
Mother of Cats
My post was not clear. I was not defending that behavior. I also find it immoral and lame. But it's not illegal, so technically not cheating. And people will abuse it especially if there are financial/social media incentives involved/. And that the root cause of the issue, is, IMHO, in the rules. Those who think about the rules need to consider the incentives that they generate. I'm talking about this all from a generic rule setting context. Honestly though, I'm assuming whoever set the rules didn't think there'd be many people exploiting it. We'll see.
I think the fundamental problem here is that it is going to be impossible to determine the validity of competitors in a division that is based solely on how one self-identifies.
Or it will be until we develop accurate mind readers and/or truth serum.
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Hot Weather Complainer
Summed up nicely. People are obviously free to identify as whatever they want (thankfully) but that doesn’t change scientific facts. Having a category with easier standards that either gender can randomly claim to be part of definitely provides incentives. Especially for someone overseas with a marginal qualifying time whose other option is to spend 10+ grand to get in…I’m still not going to though
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
My post was not clear. I was not defending that behavior. I also find it immoral and lame. But it's not illegal, so technically not cheating. And people will abuse it especially if there are financial/social media incentives involved/. And that the root cause of the issue, is, IMHO, in the rules. Those who think about the rules need to consider the incentives that they generate. I'm talking about this all from a generic rule setting context. Honestly though, I'm assuming whoever set the rules didn't think there'd be many people exploiting it. We'll see. WCRunner - We're all bits of dust going around in the universe! Mikkey - interested? I sort of had to retire that vest after my shameful presentation at the EcoTrail Porto earlier this year.
Your post was very clear to non woke people and pretty sad you actually have to explain it. 🤦🏻
Cobra Commander Keen
Lol.
Flavio - I understood perfectly.
DWave - Good luck this weekend! I'm hopeful given how things have seemed to trend for for lately. Shoe choice?
The weather is looking better for this weekend than it has at this race in a long time and I'm excited about it. Now we just need to see who shows up.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
And that the root cause of the issue, is, IMHO, in the rules. Those who think about the rules need to consider the incentives that they generate. I'm talking about this all from a generic rule setting context. Honestly though, I'm assuming whoever set the rules didn't think there'd be many people exploiting it. We'll see.
There is a small proportion of the population that validly identify as non-binary (probably less than 0.5%). However the number that claim to be non-binary is likely to be significantly larger than that.
There is no issue with the rules in terms of having a separate category for non-binary. As Darkwave says the problem is that there’s no way of telling if people are actually being honest. It’s no different to a 35 year old pretending to be 45 years old to get a more favourable AG position or qualifying time - except ages are readily capable of being independently verified.
And to be fair, there’s a greater than zero chance wcrunner is correct and we are all just in the matrix anyways lol.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Ok I will shift the topic
I just ran my local parkrun. Goal was to try and go under 19 and also beat the 55 to 60 age group time of 19.35 which is soft but this parkrun is fairly new.
My wife said she would come and walk it so I jogged the 6kms down and would meet her at the start.
I pulled out my only super shoes nike next %2 which I've had for 3.5 years and only have 60kms on.
I did a few strides at about 4kms into the run down to the start.
I waited for my wife to arrive but there was no sign of her so i made my way to the start and settled in a couple of rows back.
Off we went and I shot out to the lead for about the first 800m before a couple of young guys went past.
Hit the first km at about 3.40 which was a bit quick for my current fitness ( 30mpw last 2 months )
2nd and 3rd kms I held steady around 3.48kms with about a 15 sec gap to the front 2. There was a guy about 15 secs back from me too.
This course is an H shape so 4 180 degree turns and the path is basically all gravel with a few small hills. Not a fast course but not terrible. I could feel a fair amount of slippage with the Next% shoes.
4th km in 3.51 not too bad but the last km was not great as I realized at the last turnaround that the Marshall had put the cone way short by about 200m.
I was Marshall at this turnaround a few weeks ago and the course measured slightly long at 5.1kms but today it was going to be well under. So when I got near the finish I yelled out to all the bemused volunteers "
sorry it's short I will keep going and come back 😅 "
Unfortunately this meant 2 more 180 degree turns before finishing with a poor last km of 3.58.
Final time around 19.06
All good though I missed sub 19. They were apologetic about the short course and managed to move it for all but the first 14 finishers. The extra piece I ran cost me 3rd place
Conditions were perfect no wind and about 14c.
I jogged the 6kms home and my wife said she arrived late so walked about 4kms and waited at the finish but somehow we never saw each other
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
They've given me 19.00 for 80.88% age grade so I'm happy enough with that. I started my watch part way through a warmup km so was probably out a few secs in the first km.
Thanks for this, wcrunner. :-) I guess it's something we can all agree on.
I'll admit I did not realize we were talking about qualification standards for the NYCM. That's my bad. In light of that, what you wrote made sense the first time, Flavio, but thank you for clarifying. Steered by my reaction to the invalidation of a personal identity. I got stuck in the loop of thinking about mental versus material incentives for taking advantage of the policies, which admittedly are a hard thing to come up with for something like this.
edited to add: Also, sorry Piwi, I started drafting at 4pm, got distracted by work, and didn't see your post. Nice job on the almost sub-19! If it hadn't been for the short course and extra 180s, I'd be willing to bet you'd have gotten it. Also 3rd isn't bad! But sounds like you'd have had 1st otherwise?